42 Police Luger Numbers Question
 

Hi all,
I'm looking at acquiring a 42 Police Luger in about 95%+. Comes with two matching mags, numbered holster, numbers matching tool, etc. All small parts match the upper/barrel. The question I have is the lower frame is exactly one digit higher than all the other matching numbers on this near mint gun. Frankly, I've never seen anything like it. Could it be an assembly error leaving the factory? Appreciate any insight into this anomaly.

Thanks,
mark

No possible !!!

Thanks. Gun doesn't appear to be restored or refinished. The only other thing I could think of was the lower was swapped at the unit level after issue. The numbers are sequential (i.e. 1095/1096). I can think of no other explanation...

Can you post pictures? 1942 Police Banners would most likely have a "y" suffix. Is there a "y" on the front of the frame and the magazine bottoms?

Yes to y on frame, not on the mags however. Pic of frame attached.

The upper and lower were "assembled" together sometime in the last 76 years, almost certainly not by any official German service organization. The liklihood of any "unit" having two consecutively numbered 42 police Lugers to confuse together is vanishingly small.

No wishful explanation will ever make this anything other than a mis-matched pistol. Manage your expectations and pay accordingly.

--Dwight

Understand. Thanks for the input Dwight.

Mark

Sounds like a spiffy shooter, for sure!

What do the two matching mags match, the upper or the frame?

Hi. The mags, holster and tool match the upper.
Best,
Mark

That would be unusual for a "42"; when you can please post pictures of the holster, its markings, and the tool.:thumbup:

Here you go. Interested in your thoughts.

Best,
Mark

the lower frame is exactly one digit higher than all the other matching numbers
That's a head scratcher for sure. To me the mix up about had to happen at the factory, not after issue. Not that it matters a bit in the end because the value of the gun is only what someone is willing to pay for it.
I'm curious as to the asking price.
dju

"the lower frame is exactly one digit higher than all the other matching numbers
That's a head scratcher for sure. To me the mix up about had to happen at the factory, not after issue. Not that it matters a bit in the end because the value of the gun is only what someone is willing to pay for it.
I'm curious as to the asking price."

Either a freak factory error of some kind or the person who needed a new frame is just about the luckiest (or unluckiest?) Luger collector alive on that one.

That was my sense of it. Would prefer that the whole gun was matching. Makes it easy. With a mis-matched from one number higher, it complicates things quite a bit, at least for me. Conditionally, makes no sense as the gun would grade 95% plus. No record of factory errors out there???

Mark

Sorry, forgot. $3K.

Mark

3K is way too much!

No matter what the stories or guesses it is still a mismatched shooter. Maybe $1500 at the most. I doubt very much that this occurred at the factory. Nor does it really matter where or when. Nice shooter way high price. Bill

I'd tend to agree with Bill. the price is way high, actually it is priced at the nosebleed level if the numbers did match. I'd want to be in at well under $2k, and even then good luck getting your money back.
Looking at the mix-up logistically, it just seems like the odds of it happening at the factory are far more likely than after it left.
But we will never know.
dju

This happens seldom enough to be reported...never.

--Dwight

Well, thanks to everyone who responded. Seems to be agreement that the gun might be a factory error, unable to prove one way or the other. But even if it was, would not change value proposition. Matching is desired for collectors (and most shooters) and that pretty much says it all. What a difference one digit can make! I suspected as much but appreciate everyone's confirmation.
Best,
Mark

It's sad and we can all speculate as to what happened, where, when and why, but at the end of the day, it is mismatched. Personally I'd still like to own it and shoot it, but it would have to be priced right, which it is not.
Also the seller may be in way deep too if they didn't recognize the problem.
I would be interested to see how Simpsons, Ltd. would price such an anomaly if they had it for sale.
dju

Yes, it would be interesting to get Simpson's insights. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone there and I suspect they wouldn't have time/desire to render an opinion...

I hate to flail a dead horse, but there is not such an agreement about this speculation.

--Dwight

Folks "wish" for factory errors, but they are really not a reasonable possibility.
The parts were numbered for a reason, i.e. so they would fit.
They would never pass final factory inspection with mismatched numbers.

I see only two opinions, one vastly out-numbered by the weight of evidence against "factory errors" that result in mis-matched numbers.
Strike out/strike over corrections of numbering do exist, which further supports the "no factory numbering error left the factory without correction" camp. JMHO.

As to a sellers opinion is just that, and worth no more than yours.
I always believed that : a mismatch is a "factory error" if selling; it is a simple but costly mismatch if one is buying. ;)

D:
I agree that it all depends on where you stand on the deal.
I'm still having trouble getting my arms around the likelihood that the switch occurred outside of the factory, and would vote for "in-house" error. But, of course we could argue that until dawn and no one would win. And in the end it would matter not.
dju

The sear safety was added to "police" lugers by police armorers; which is a much more likely place that a switch possibly could have occurred, rather than the factory.

But like you said before, we will never know and no use to argue; we can agree that it is interesting and odd for sure.:cheers:

So just for the sake of conversation, would you speculate that while it was in for police mod, the lowers got accidentally switched with another gun OR they, for whatever reason, replaced the frame and misnumbered it at that time?
dju

For the fun of it, I'd think it much more likely that "they" were adding the spring to the upper(seems Mauser drilled the holes but did not put the spring on) and when re-assembling the upper/lower assemblies they were switched.

Could be confirmed if we were to find the "opposite" mismatch! :)

As Dwight said, there is no agreement about the factory mismatching the Luger. There were teams of inspectors (government and factory) who's job was to ensure compliance with regulations.

It's a higher end mismatched shooter, and a desirable one at the right price. I think it's worth much less than $1500. Perhaps $1250 or so.

Granted, things like this are not supposed to happen, but stuff does happen, even under strict German control, and the odds of this being a random mix-up of 2 consecutively numbered guns that occurred away from the factory just boggles my mind.
Not saying it didn't happen that way, mind you.
dju

It doesn't really matter when, where or why. It is still and always will be a mismatched shooter worth $1200 - 1500. Nothing we can dream up will ever change this. Bill

There are lots of things that boggle my mind; like computers, the internet, and smart phones!:eek:

No one is arguing that point, mis-matched is mismatched.:cheers: