my new luger and cleaning it
 

Got my beautiful 1937 Luger thanks to the help from this forum....i decided to dissemble and do an intense cleaning...i used Hoppes and remington oil w/ q-tips...i found area's of brown coloring in most of the corners of the gun...i assumed its rust starting in, so i spent hours detailing this gun...i was able to get 95% of it out except for the corners where i cant get into..probably 200+ q-tips....even the normal looking area's i got brown off of....after looking at how rust-blue is done im starting to wonder if this is a normal-ish thing?...i used oil and fine steel wool to clean off some of it....no pitting, no orange...just brown areas....the steel wool helped w/ no damage to the finish....

when i was done i sprayed the heck out of everything with rem. oil so it was dripping and cleaned it once again......the part of the white lettering in the GESICHERT just floated up in chunks...not happy..when i wiped it it just came up......1/2 of the word is still intact w/ no issues.....no harsh chemicals were used...just hoppes...the rest of the word had no issues and is solid...im wondering if this word was filled in many years ago and my cleaning took the crayon or whatever it was out......my evidence is it came out of the stamping in chunks....and when wiped it just disintegrated into nothing......i am not sure to be frustrated w/ myself for damaging my gun? or if this was faked many years ago and i just unveiled it.......either way it is what it is...sad to think it lasted 80 years and only 1 day with me...

pictured is a before/after picture....also w/ my new holster thanks to a forum member
https://i.imgur.com/i89au8p.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ICV9LQD.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HW3qHzT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HovlocU.jpg

The hi-lite that came off in chunks was probably recent enhancement. The original hi-liting was done at the factory with a flesh colored enamel. What you have now is just fine as it is.

BTW, i like to use sharpened bamboo chop sticks to clean out corner areas of grease and dried dirt. They can either push cloth patches or be used alone to gently remove dirt. in any case, they are somewhat stiff yet soft enough not to scratch things.

David, your early 1937 Mauser is, indeed, a really nice one. These are more rare as the change to salt blued pistols started early in the year.

i know you used care when cleaning it, but understand that much of the damage to firearms is done in cleaning procedures. i agree with George that you should not try and restore or enhance the paint in any way.

Removal of obvious red oxidation is a good idea since it eventually will often lead to pitting. Remember that it's normal for red oxide to be visible deep in the finish of older pistols.

I personally believe in the less is better - and clean fairly well but not as deep as some collectors.

Remember, bluing is rust - patina is rust, so you have to expect something to come off the harder you buff :)

By your description I am wondering if the brown film is not dried WD40. That stuff can be a real booger to get off.
dju

the area's with the brown color were in specific areas...inside the grip area was a lot......around the main spring...i took the handles off to get in here......it was a real PITA...fine line maybe between patina and letting your gun rust.....i figured because of the rust-blue that this finish is different than any other gun i own and to not get into it any more....no damage was done to any finish...i oiled the heck out of the steel wool and did not apply pressure....much of it was twisting it into threads and trying to get it out of the corners....most of the work was done with hoppes and just q-tips...steel wool was used very sparingly....i stopped before i got all the brown out of some of the corners because i did not want to get too aggressive....


is the existing wear to the white lettering consistent with normal use/wear? i thought because it was on the top 1/2 of the word that it was worn off from using the safety switch...made sense to me....

also noticed its more white now than it was

if i did remove the paint somehow how does that effect value? (i was sick to my stomach for a couple of hours until i thought more about it)

its a beautiful gun and im very proud to own it....thanks again for all the help/advice in choosing this gun...i think im very lucky!

Yes,
You vigorously cleaned half or so of the paint out of the safety marking.

I like your assessment of " 80 years ok, and one day with me" - oops.

It is really clean now so enjoy it.

i actually didnt clean that area.....barely touched it...it had hoppes soaking on it though...nothing vigorous

Hoppe's is a solvent; probably softened the paint; then it was easy to brush out.

Another forum member, can't remember who, in another thread pointed out that the original fill of the Gesichert letters at the factory was actually wax, not paint. His comment surprised me so I checked Gortz & Sturgess and sure enough he was correct.

To me at least, the presence or not of any coloring material be it wax or paint in the Gesichert mark is irrelevant to value. That said, when it is present on an all-matching pistol I am careful to leave it alone. I suggest be more careful in the future to keep solvent off that part but if this was my pistol (I wish!:)) I would not be concerned at all and would leave it just as it is now.

On my shooters, I do restore that marking with a combination of white, yellow and brown enamel paint to get the off-color white look.

Your pistol is an excellent example of a less common variant, congratulations.

I agree with George. All you removed is whatever someone added to the letters to make them look better. I have used Hoppes for years and never lost any paint. Just leave it alone. What you have left is fine. No value lost. Many original lugers have all the paint lost. Nice luger!! Bill

Very nice Luger congratulations!

I almost perceived your "enthusiuasm, and it's. great.

Everytime I get a new gun, especially a collectible I've got to disassemble it, clean it gently and lube it with BALLISTOL, in several decades now I've never had any issues.
I use chinese chopsticks to clean the bores of all my firearms, new 1911s included.

Best regards and Happy 2018!

thanks for all your opinions.....i plan on shooting it next week....i have heard all the advice not to shoot it and i am planning on being very sparing with shooting it....maybe once a year or less....i realize what a special gun i have and want to minimize the risk while still enjoying the gun....

how accurate are the iron sights? i see there is no adjustment....im curious if they shoot spot on or if ill have to adjust my point of aim

ive got a Walther P1.....im considering selling and getting a P38 to round out the collection....

May I make a suggestion ---
Keep the P1 and go out and find a P.38 to add to your collection. That way you will have an original P.38 , and it's cold War successor.
The money you get for the P1 will not buy but about 1/2 of a lower end but still nice all matching P.38 anyway , and the P1 can serve as your regular , no risk shooter as you preserve the matching WWII pistol.
That's how I would do it.
Better get back to Lugers ...

Batt, Since your 1937 has the "rust blued" finish, your use of steel wool is not too different than the original "carting" off the original rusting using a stainless steel wheel. Don't try that on a later hot dipped luger, as the results would be many bad scratches. I've been told for years the the "white" safety marking was originally done with "white lead" (paint?). IMHO, best to just do a normal after shooting oiling to maintain the original finish. TH

ive used very fine steel wool and lots of oil to clean up light rust on a few guns...its never scratched, but yes i understand the hot dip blue is a very poor finish, so it could be more of a problem

i also test it out before i go nuts.....never scratched a guns finish yet with it...

i watched a few video's of the rustblue process....its very different and interesting.....this is why i think the brown area's on my gun are normal from lack of oiling....it could be called a patina to some....i wouldnt disagree....im not educated enough to know if long term these patina areas will become pitted rust or just stay brown patina.....im happier with it being black(blued) vs brown....back to the original finish its supposed to have.....

White lead is used as a white paint pigment. It's mostly lead carbonate and occurs naturally. It does not fade or change color, but it's toxic, so you won't find it available except as artist's oil paint or industrial bulletin paint.

When I encountered a small can of it in my grancmother's basement when I was a kid, it was like a putty--not unlike glazing compound. Probably mixed with some linseed oil to make it safer since powdered form is more "volatile" and more easily accidentally inhaled.

If mixed with the right amount of linseed oil, I think that once applied to the clean GESICHERT it would cure and stick in place for the ages. Subsequent yellowing would be caused by impurities absorbed by the "paint" over the years, and not yellowing of the compound itself.

THIS is why we ask pictures to be posted here and not hosted elsewhere...

That paint loss is something that may drive you nuts but no one else will notice or care.
dju

It would drive me nuts too; I'd either lose it all or replace what is missing.
Nothing like half way to draw one's eye to it.

If the owner of a collectible Luger is bothered by pigment loss, I would think it OK to fill those letters that are completely free of older material. A close match to the remaining color would be needed or it would draw even more attention to the issue.

As far as the original material, in Gortz & Sturgess p. 1060 they cite an Infanterie-Konstruktionsbureau (I.K.B.) document dated 1913 specifying that Gesichert be filled with sealing wax. There is another reference on p.774 to a Mauser spec. calling for sealing wax in the safety marking on Persian contract pistols in 1937. I can't find anything else on this, comments by those with better knowledge would be welcome.

Update: On p99 of The Mauser Parabellum by Hallock and van de Kant, they state the Gesichert mark was filled with white enamel. Maybe it changed over time?