Looking for First Luger Purchase Advice
 

I've been reading "Stickies" here and other posts for a little while now. I have a collection of WWI and WWII rifles, i.e., K98k (German, Persian contract etc.); Mosin Nagant (Refurb matching rifle and scope, a non-import Mosin 91/30) and pistols. The pistols consist of byf43 and byf44 Mauser P-38's with "correct" holsters and a Model 37 "jhv42" Frommer Femaru (Hungarian) with original holster and some cowboy guns.

However, I don't have a Luger pistol. I have several on a "Watch" list at the Guns International website and a couple of others sellers. My desire is to find a "Nazi Period" Luger, but am open to suggestions for other options.

I do have some knowledge of sellers that are "questionable" at best. If any of you know of questionable Luger sellers I should void, perhaps a PM would be helpful to me.

As a retired U.S. Army officer, I've taught military history and I've done a lot of reading about Lugers and other military weapons. So, I am now at the point of wanting to move forward with a purchase. I have a budget of $2.5k max and wonder what suggestions and/or recommendations you all may have for Lugers in that price range. I can, if allowed, post links to some I'm watching and perhaps some will review them and comment for me on any that look good for a first Luger purchase. Or, perhaps suggestions from the WTS list, or other available guns may come to mind. I am open to learning and advice from all.

I hope this is an acceptable request. Please let me know.

Thanks a heap!:cheers:

Certainly an acceptable request, but a difficult one.
My suggestion would be to try to educate yourself prior to bidding on anything, thereby ruling out a lot of what is out there.
Secondly, send us links to specific guns and we'll take great delight in picking it apart. Don't be offended.
Post lots of photos of whatever you are considering.
Decide on what era interests you in regards to Lugers, and narrow your focus.
Spend some time on reputable dealers' web sites. Even if you prefer to not pay their prices, it will be time well spent. Simpsons, Ltd. is a good one, Legacy Collectables, etc.
Don't be a stranger, we're here to help.
dju

I would not spend $2.5k on my first luger.

I would buy a $1000 shooter, in good condition of the era you are interested in. If that is not enough, you still have $1500 that will buy you a collectible, but lower end WWI or WWII luger.

The key here is be patient and you will find a great luger at a good price. Perhaps even here in the for sale section.

Welcome and show us what you are looking at before you decide!

There is quite a bit to learn about Lugers before you can make an educated judgement about what you're buying. The best initial investment is a lower priced pistol as Don mentioned, and investing in some books.

You can download, absolutely free, an extensive reference FAQ document from this site. You'll find the material a good basic introduction to Lugers, and find it useful when you start looking to buy one. It's not exhaustive - that is why they publish books - but it has quite a bit of accumulated Luger knowledge and lore...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121

Welcome to the forum! Marc

I have a third reich Mauser luger, a DWM Weimar and now want an Imperial one. One is never enough!

2.5k is a little much for your first luger. The nazi era lugers seem to fetch more money, and more suckers, due to everyone wanting a pistol from the war their father or grandfather served in. If you're interested, PM me about a 1941 BYF I'm ready to sell. I have many pictures.

Looking for First Luger Purchase Advice
 

For information purposes and for my own education, the following links are Luger Pistols I've been reviewing. What can I learn from you?

Thank you in advance for your responses.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/gun...n_id=100858857

http://www.checkpointcharlies.com/ec...-matching.html

http://www.gunsinternational.com/gun...n_id=100869330

http://www.gunsinternational.com/gun...n_id=100875618

http://www.gunsinternational.com/gun...n_id=100879700

http://www.gunsinternational.com/gun...n_id=100814365

http://www.gunsinternational.com/gun...n_id=100893770

http://www.gunsinternational.com/gun...n_id=100884762

http://www.gunsinternational.com/gun...n_id=100829679

I'd look at one or three for you, but 9?
That would take a couple hours!

The first one a 1916 DWM, has a non standard stamping for $1850- I'd pass.
The second, BYF 42 at $2k, too much for condition.
The third, late type 1937 S/42, nice, but $1950 is too much for the piece with a mismatched mag.
JMHO,
everyone has different ideas about price and value.

Perhaps someone else will look at the rest!

I'm NOT (NOT!) an experienced Luger collector, but I think Don has great advice. This is the path I chose on my own. The more I read, the more I realized I don't know.

I went with a $1000 1920s commercial shooter to start, and not from an auction, from Simpsons LTD. I know I didn't get a bargain, and I don't think I got ripped off either, but I was confident that what I got would be as they described it, and I was willing to spend a bit more to have that confidence.

Now I'm looking at starting to get 1914-1918 DWMs, but I'm in no immense hurry, and will be reading even more and looking at a lot of guns before spending any money.

And personally, when buying Lugers, as in dealing with Mauser rifles of which I am more familiar, I will dismiss immediately any item where the description says "RARE!".

Been there - done that
 

I recently purchased my first Luger.

First of all you need to decide what kind of Luger you want - WW1, WW2, commercial, etc. Personally, I wanted a Reich period.

Once you decide, I would frequent the previously recommended sites (Simpson's, Legacy etc.)

I'm glad I went the Simpson route from the nine that you listed. I may have overpaid a bit, but it was well illustrated and accurately represented. You don't know what you are getting from the nine that you listed. Poor pictures and lack of info.

I'm not really into handguns, so I know I'm a one Luger guy. I just wanted one nice collectible piece and i didn't want to wait another six months. Now - if you want to talk about "sniper rifles" I'm just as gluttonous as most on this forum.

Like others have said, the pics are not great, but I'll throw in my 2 cents after just scanning the links.

I agree with Don' s assessment on the first 3.
#4 has chrome or nickel finish and price is too high.
#5 is misrepresented as black widow, but looks like a commercial with a Germany stamp.
#6 the price seems too high given condition.
#7 looks better than #1 through #6, but photos are not clear.
#8 is a Swiss with import mark. Maybe a Swiss expert could comment.
#9 for a 1915 DWM the price seems high. It does have holster and tool. The pistol and holster appear to be coverted for police use. I see the sear saftey, but its pin looks missing. There are are similar ones (Imperial or Police) on gunbroker for less money.

Just take your time and study this forum and the other forum. You may even find a luger for sale from a forum memeber.

Most any luger you see advertised by "Cabelas" where ever, will be over priced, messed with, and have poor pictures. They are not luger experts; that said you might find a sleeper- but more likely you will get something less than expected. JMHO.

Also I would avoid anyone who describes their lugers "based on my own knowledge" and double about "rare" as mentioned above!

I only looked at #2. The seller seems to have a good reputation, but I've never dealt with him. The gun is about average, a bit of freckling and honest use. I was surprised to see the halos around the barrel numbers and no bore diameter, however it seems like the latter had since gone away. A good desirable date of mfg.
Price is a bit steep, but remember that you are dealing with a retail business, whereas here on the forum we generally pay less than retail, particularly from fellow collectors.
You may consider offering $1750 with a 3 day non-firing inspection.
dju

Part of collecting Lugers is studying the history of them. You cannot expect someone else to use their expertise to judge a purchase accurately based only on Internet listings and photographs.

All the time invested in study has a value, and much of the knowledge is being provided without obligation here.

The reason I sent you the link to the FAQ is that it contains years of accumulated knowledge about Lugers that will help you develop knowledge and judgment yourself.

The alternative is to find a reputable retail dealer, and pay them their price for a Luger that they will stand behind. Even then problems can happen, but a reputable dealer will take back a Luger that was misrepresented.

An honest collector listing a pistol here will be a better value, but could involve risk to the buyer since we're not in business to buy and sell guns.

Online auctions and gun shows are probably the most risky places to acquire a Luger - especially if you don't have the experience to evaluate one.

Marc

For those who are interested in buying a Luger but unsure of what/where/how much, similar to Don I recommend a shooter. If you must have a nicer one, get a lower to mid-grade collectible, $1400 or so budget to minimize the chance of an expensive mistake. The military Mausers (1934-1942) seem to have better metallurgy, are relatively common and IMO are therefore excellent first Lugers.

The keys to getting a desirable Luger at a reasonable price are knowledge and patience, if you are short on either you tend to end up paying more.

My "signature" pretty well sums up my recommendation: "If it is made after 1918...it is a reproduction". I always recommend the early Lugers as great collectibles. Folks start out with just about any era Luger, but when they get serious a lot eventually gravitate to Imperial era Lugers (and a lot don't, WWII fans have their own preferences :)) $2.5K will buy a pretty snazzy WWI or prior era Luger, and after all, that is where it began. :cheers:
Ron

I know, I know. I have that problem with P38's!:banghead:

Thanks for your help and suggestion. With other rifles and pistols, I have a fair idea of reputable dealers and those ot so reputable. Many do not have Lugers and I thought I may get a start by getting responses, not about, "You would do well with 1, 4, etc. Rather, I was hoping that the comments may come such as:

"Notice on #1 the following:
"On #3, you can see that:

I have been reading "Stickies" and learned a lot and I'm certainly grateful for your comments. A couple of books are on the way!

Great to be here!

Regards to all!

Have to admit I kinda want #4, but it is priced too high. I would love to have a chrome or nickel Luger in my safe.

But you should listen to these guys. They have a lot of experience and knowledge. Buy books and read everything on these forums. Hope you find the perfect Luger!

There are hundreds of threads here that explain what you are looking for, read them all. Don't laugh, before my first post I read All the posts, took weeks, then I didn't have to ask the questions that had just be asked or answered many times.

You will learn a lot from the pictures and explanations that are posted, questions one never knew existed.;)

Lugermeister,

My advice, offered entirely FWIW.

Drop your budget for your first Luger to a max of $1200. If you spend 2,000 + USD on your first Luger a time will likely come that you will bitterly regret it.

Buy a shooter as your first Luger and a collector quality gun later, after you have more market experience.

Avoid Guns International, Guns America, Simpsons, and concentrate on the sites like Gun Broker. Spend a lot of time querying and reviewing closed auctions where Lugers that interest you have actually sold. That will educate you on the difference between asking price and selling price, and provide a good idea of what people are actually paying.

Lastly, here are a couple of Luger to look over:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/708280359

That's an East German refurbished Third Reich era Luger. Contrary to the seller's description, it is not DDR police marked and is unlikely that it was ever a VoPo gun. My sense is it came out of the DDR either shortly after the Reunification (in which case it will be import marked) or is a personal bring back from some trouble spot (in which case it likely will not be import marked). Note the two matching magazines. These will be DDR magazines.


http://www.gunbroker.com/item/711043940

Imperial Erfurt Luger. May be original but looking at the pictures I get the sense it's either a restoration or a 1920s - 1930s rebuild. In either case it's likely to be a good shooter and may actually be a collector grade gun.

If you can get either of those guns for $1000 or less you will have grounds to do a victory lap around the coffee table.

And yes, I'm thinking of bidding on both :-)

A black widow is the invention of a clever salesman. Germany never had such a thing

Yes ....just pointing out this gun is not what is typically considered a "Black Widow".....either intentionally or not by the clever or not so clever seller.

The one im about to sell is indeed a "real" black widow. I'll send you pictures tomorrow if you're interested

Check out RIA for Luger they have a big collection: https://www.rockislandauction.com/ or:https://www.proxibid.com/asp/SearchA...tart=1&refine=

Sky Zero,

Sure post some photos in a new thread. There may be a buyer out there looking for a 42 code or BYF luger with original black bakelite grips; however, new collectors should note that, according to this post on the Jan C Still forum, the following excerpt describes what is meant by the term "Black widow".

"Black Widow was a term invented by dealers in the early1970s’ to identify and increase the value of Lugers with factory installed black plastic grips. Some claim that many (originally) wood gripped 1940 42 code Lugers were converted to black widows years ago by dishonest dealers. A mix of all grip types (1-6) would be expected if the black grips were switched by dealers in the U.S. to create black widow Lugers. The predominate appearance of the type 1 black plastic grips on 1940 42 Code Lugers (9 reported to date) lends credibility to the concept that these grips were factory installed. There is also a question of where the black bakelite grips came from to do all this switching. To my knowledge such grips were not manufactured in the United States."

A spider or a pancake syrup????

Eric,

I'm a biscuit and gravy kinda guy that prefers the "Brown Recluse" with wood grips.

And me thinking "black widow" was Scarlett Johansson.:rolleyes:

Bwahahahaha!!! That's great!!! :D

I hate the new, 'hip', Aunt Jemima. The original was fine with me. :thumbup:

Hi,
I have found a "shooter grade" starter. It's $995.00 on Legacy Collectibles. Says "matching" of course. Has a crack in one grip panel. I suppose original replacements could be found. It's located here:

https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/...ter-grade.html

At the price I'd have enough left over to get a Nambu I've been looking at too.

Thank you so much for your help and suggestions.

Regards,
Lou Miles
Southern Utah

Lou, it is a .30 Luger pistol in 7.65mm Luger caliber. . You'll spend quite a bit more to actually shoot it in this caliber than in a 9mm Luger pistol.

It's also not a military issued pistol.

That said, my very first was a nice collectible all matching .30 Luger caliber DWM Commercial like this onw.

Marc

Have they test fired it!!! Jim Soloman can repair and grip problems~Jim does real magic!!!!!