toggle lock?
 

What is a toggle lock? Just curious. Easy to repair if broken?
Thanks

I believe it can refer to the part in the middle of the toggle on the right of a M1900 Luger that clips over an extension of the frame when the pistol is in battery. It prevents the toggle from rising without first moving the receiver back on the frame.

Alternately, it could refer to the small pin that holds the toggle's axle in place on the M1906 and later Lugers.

P51 of the Lugerforum FAQ document discusses this.

The luger in question is a DWM 1900 American Eagle in decent condition. Ad says it is fine mechanically. So, safe to shoot with broken toggle lock? Can it be repaired?

Safe to shoot, yes; if all else is ok.
Repair- possible; expensive and would require re-finish of at least part or all of the receiver.

Would help to know the price, if low enough - fine; ignore the broken latch.
If you want a perfect specimen for collecting- move on. JMHO.

Anything can be repaired, it's just a question of cost.
In this case, it's also a question of what part of the toggle lock is broken. If the small projection on the top of the frame rail is damaged that would be worst case. It can be removed, but it's silver soldered in and the heating to get it out would damage the finish. If its simply a case of the latch in the toggle being broken or missing it become a quest to find a replacement part. But actually replacing it is quick and easy - no tools required.

You need a pin punch (or a paper clip) ;) :cheers:

The price is $1995. I think that is a little high?

Tough call without pictures and without "knowing" which part of the toggle lock is broken.

I "ass-umed" it was the piece on the frame, maybe not.
Still expensive either way.:cool:

It's about par for the course at Simpson's Ltd in Galesville IL. ;)

(That's what I paid total for my M1900AE from Simpson's). :p

The most common damage to the orig M1900 toggle lock is the worn or broken off internal arm at the top that retains the center toggle axel. So without it, the axel can drift out to the right and jam the action. Short of a correct replacement, one can install a postwar axel (available @$5) which can be pressed into place. TH

Ok all these posts...read them all and still don't know what a toggle lock is. Did
everybody have a massive camera fail at the same time?

If my TV remote doesn't have a button for it, then it probably won't get done... :rolleyes:

Here's how it works...That paddle-shaped piece in the middle of the toggle knob has a hook at the bottom. That square-looking part on the frame rail also has a hook. They engage each other, preventing the toggle from being lifted UNLESS you pull the toggle train straight back about 3/16" BEFORE lifting. If you try to yank it up like on a P08, it will break one or the other hooks.

Rich (or Ron!), what's up with the pic of a toggle lock on the New Model toggles that are checkered, not dished? If the flat mainspring's common failure to keep the toggle down is the reason for having a toggle lock, wouldn't the pistol in the pic have a coil spring, and consequently not need one?

I appreciate it. I guess the really old ones are the only ones that have it.
Glad my three don't because I would have broken them already.:)

Yep. Only the early models with the flat mainspring have them. After the chage to the coil mainspring it was found to be unnecessary.

I screen-grabbed the first pic I came to; it was labeled as a 'transition model'. I was just too lazy to get up off the couch and open the safe, put a battery in my camera, find a backdrop, take a pic, transfer it to my PC, crop the pic, resize it, upload it, and then add my comment...

In the time it took me to write that last paragraph, I had already posted it. :rolleyes:

Wow Sheepherder, that made me tired reading about it. Heck I had to take a nap!

Just because it has checkered toggles doesn't necessarily mean it also has a coil spring. My 1904 Navy has a long frame, flat spring, toggle lock (see my avatar) as well as checkered toggles.

Ya snooze, ya lose... ;)

Here's my 1900AE toggle lock...

Really an archaic design. Glad they got rid of it. Nice pictures though thanks for
taking the time. Lets you see how that works.

It's an exact copy of Hugo Borchardt's C93 toggle lock. ;)

Thanks Mike. I figured Navies (~1904) were probably an exception, 'cause they have checkered toggle lugs. Yours is a first issue, right? Altered or not? Rich's first pic isn't a Navy though. His later description of how it's called "transition" sort of clears it up. A good reminder that design changes didn't necessarily occur simultaneously, or even consistently...

Nice set of photos, Rich!

I had a chance to look at the 1900 AE with the broken toggle lock. Indeed, it is the part attached to the rail. Obviously someone with no knowledge yanked on the toggle knobs and broke it off. So, who could repair this and is it really that pricey? Could spot bluing cover any mars in the finish?
Thanks again

You can buy a 1900 with intact parts for the $1995 you mentioned.

No one has stepped up to say "he" could fix it; that may be a clue as to how difficult it is. Perhaps Thor, lugerman, or lugerdoc-you could contact them and ask.

As to spot bluing- with what? Rust blue will cover it, but there won't be a spot, the receiver will have to be heated enough to remove the piece by melting the silver solder- which will require near red heat and will discolor an inch or more of the receiver- a pretty big spot. It will require some degree of polishing to even out the surface, making the spot even larger.

I don't think a "yank" would break it, more likely just metal fatigue; it is a small,thin part with a groove cut in it, a recipe for failure by stress cracking.

I have a 1900 with the locking ear broken; since it does nothing important I have not considered repairing it. It is not readily apparent when the toggle is open or closed. JMHO.

Exactly. ;)

Not quite, but as yours is broken off, you're excused. :p

It's much more than just a groove. It's actually a machined part with a 90º 'hook' on the top. The 'hook' has a chamfer on the top and the bottom section is squared and fits in a corresponding square slot in the frame rail. Then it is silver-soldered in place.

It has no other function than to keep the toggle from flying open under recoil. It would appear that Georg Luger/DWM conducted enough tests to determine that it was superfluous and was eventually left off.

"Yanking' on the closed toggle is about the only way I can see to break it off. There is no other strain on it. :rolleyes:

The chamfers on the bottom of the toggle piece and the top of the frame piece slide over each other when the toggle closes.

Some pics to illustrate below (taken of my 1900AE). TBLAP has blueprints for the M1900, there may be one for the frame piece. Finding one loose is like finding hen's teeth, as someone remarked lately... ;)

Edit: TBLAP does indeed have the blueprints for all the toggle lock parts as well as the cut in the frame rail. :thumbup:

Here's a resized/negative screen grab of the milled slot in the frame rail. Good luck cleaning all the silver solder out of the slot. :rolleyes:

Second pic is a compilation showing how the two hooks engage. The upper hook (in the toggle knob) is spring loaded so it slides over the frame hook. :)

Toggle Lock
 

I happen to have one of these gizzy wompers. Bought it from Mike Krause years ago to fix a broken one I owned. The gun sold before I attempted to fix it. Pretty intricate machining went into making this little guy. I attempted a photo but all that shows is basic shape.

Now that is interesting! I don't have the skills or tools to do a switch, but I bet Charles Danner could remove a broken lock piece, clean out the slot, and silver-solder the new piece in and spot re-finish the frame... :D

I would also think that a skilled micro-machinist like Olle could mill a frame piece...Maybe a couple...If he had the print [coff, coff]... :rolleyes: ;) :p