My first Borchardt,
 

I finally got myself a Borchardt.
Made by Lowe, Serial number 315.
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/borchardt_1.jpg

I know it is not the best in the world, but for me it is the dream of a life time.
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...rdt_side_1.jpg

This is a side view.
The green lining of the case is actually much darker, the camera flash makes it look a lot lighter.
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/118_1894_1.jpg

Top view of makers name.

http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/118_1891_1.jpg

Another side view.

Kind regards
Murray.

PS, I will be at the SAR show in Arizona next week if anyone is interested.

Beautiful!!! Everyone should own a Borchardt, fortunately some of us do. Congratulations on your lifetime dream come true. You are very lucky to own one of these landmark firearms, and a very nice early one at that.

Murray,

If that's not "the best in the world" it comes darn close. You have my envious congratulations.

--Dwight

Thank you Guys,
You are very kind.
The gun is, in my opinion, very good. 98% original blue and very crisp gips. BUG proofs. All matchimg numbers # 315 but not the Magazine which is the same number as the stock and the cheek piece.#478.
the stock and hold open devise have "GESHTZUGH OESCHUTZT" (I think!)stamped on the edge.As I said "not the best Borchardt in the world" but, I suppose, at my age "beggers can't be choosers"!
I know the exact histoy of the Gun. It was imported into New Zealand by a dealer friend of mine (now deceased) in 1983, I have followed its path until very recently when I got the chance to purchase it.

It has been very well looked after. The only noticable blemish is some blue missing (wear) from around where the stock fits on to the gun.
All I need now is a spare mag and a little oil bottle but not much luck so far.
Kind wishes

Congratulations! A beautiful firearm! Are you going to take the chance of fireing a couple of rounds with it?

Very nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />

Russ

"GOD" If thats not the best I don't know what is. What a treasure. One of my dreams as well.

OK...quiz time. Other than the markings, there are two significant differences between a Loewe Borchardt and a DWM Borchardt - what are they?

Sorry Ron, out of my breadth of limited knowledge!

Murray..... jeez, just a dream come true!

Very nice bud, very nice!

Ed

Ron,
As I only have a photograph of the LH side of a DWM Borchardt, I can detect four changes.
The first most significant is that the raised machining around the trigger guard has been removed, there is a pin that seems no longer existant on the recoil spring housing, the little "tit" for want of a better word, on the side plate, is not so pronounced and there is a little slot on the firing pin actuation lever (above the mag release button) that also seems to have disapeared.

How did I do?
Regards
Murray.

A very nice Borchardt!

Gives me the opportunity to share this detail drawing set from the DWM archives.

http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...hardt_1939.jpg

Murray! Some of us have.... some of us have not... YOU HAVE!!! Congrats!! Damn I'm Jealous!! Best to you, til...lat'r...GT <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />

Good to hear from you again, Congratulations!

rk

Murray,
You did great! I had forgotten about the raised machining around the trigger guard, so make that 3 significant changes! The difference in the side plate is one of the changes I was looking for. The other change I was looking for is perhaps the most significant and probably can't be seen in a side view.

I am not sure about the pin in the recoil spring housing (I don't have a DWM Borchardt either), but I believe the slot in the sear bar exists on both models.

Murray,

What a great acquisition ! You are a very patient collector ! Congratulations and thanks for the photos !!! The leather is also very exceptional...

p.s. Can you explain the function of the wooden object in the lower, right-hand side of your case ?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Pete,

My understanding is that it is inserted in place of a magazine during takedown. That is about the extent of my knowledge of Borchardts except to say that I am very jelous of anyone who owns one.

Steve

Murray,
I would like to add my compliments to the above list.
Very great item with accessories and case.
You may add an original manual to complete the set. I remember that Simpson ltd had one manual for sale in his list of Luger accessories.
Ciao
Mauro

Pete,
The wooden object is a dummy magazine used as a hold-open when cleaning the barrel. The brass portion visible in the picture is part of a jointed cleaning rod contained in the wood magazine.

Murray, I cannot say any more than what has been said! Truely a magnificent acquisition. The holey grail so to speak. We should all be so lucky someday.

The case is probably much more rare than the pistol...

Acouple of questions if I could...How much? Are you going to fire it? Jerry Burney

Murray... WOW!... you never cease to amaze your Luger friends with what you find down under! Congrats!

Hi Murray,

Any chance of seeing some close-up photos of the "hold open" magazine and its tools...?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Hi Ron & Murray,
* I'm certainly no expert on these; but, FWIW J. Walter, The Luger Book, Pg.74 states: "The only visible differences between the two types of Borchardt lie in the sear-bar(slotted in the Loewe examples, solid in DWM) and the trigger-plate, the DWM version of which has less of a spur projecting above the trigger guard. The front of the DWM frame is slightly different from the Loewe type, though the differences are comparitively minor and could have been effected simply by filing."
* Other than the Loewe S/N range being 1-1100 and the DWM range being approximately 1101(S/N 1105 known)-3013(mag 3019 known), I wouldn't know what other item might be different to constitute the third item Ron has in mind. BTW-The date of the production/marking transition is reported to be 1 January, 1897 when Deutsche Metallpatronenfabrik became Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken (DWM) and Loewe tranferred "Borchardt" production to the new company.
* Why don't you two just loan me your two C/93's and I'll do a detailed study to find the differences!! Shouldn't take me much more than a lifetime or so. :rolleyes: :D
* One beautiful cased treasure, Murray. :cool: Success & happy hunting those few missing accessories. Keep you on your toes with the thrill of the hunt being half the reward.
Respectfully,
Bob

OK, make that 4 significant differences, I wasn't sure about the sear bar. But I am still looking for the most obvious, and I am really surprised that Walter didn't pick up on it because it is quite a "visible" difference.

Murray,
congratulations on your purchase. Be careful of that case. All the cases that I have seen seem to look very delicate after all these years.

I have a few questions the first of which is what is that black thing under the handle of the pistol? Another question is the color of the holster. All the holsters that I have seen where on DWM's and they were all black. Did the Lowes holsters come in the brown color? Another thing that I noticed is the strap on the neck of the holster. This one seems to have two rivets holding the strap to the holster. My holster does not show any holes in the leather that would indicate rivets where ever there. Perhaps this is why that strap is missing from my holster. But were these rivets on the Lowe Borchardt holster?

Except for the rivets and the color the holster looks like the finest Borchardt holster that I have seen. I sure would like it if someone who is good at wood workng to make a hard wood hold open magazine. Its tough holding the toogle back while trying to run a rod down the barrel.
Big Norm

Hello Murray,

Congratulations on obtaining a fine cased Loewe Borchardt. You seem to have that special luck finding great stuff 'down under'.

Without the intention of criticizing your Borchardt rig too strongly, I hope you do not mind me making a few comments based on some details which I can observe in your image. Firstly, the holster is a replacement because it was very common for the black patent leather holsters to quickly peel/loose the epidermis and expose the suede underneath; they were very fragile leather holsters made of the same leather used later on the Navy holsters.

Secondly, I believe that the felt in your case has been replaced which I have also observed with other Borchardt cases. Take a look at the cased Loewe Borchardt on my website to note the correct details and accessories (the brass oil can is an addition, and the set is actually missing the round grease can which is a very rare included accessory).

I admire the condition of your pistol and you have a task ahead to find the additional accessories!

Well done,
Albert

Hello Murray,
I feel sorry if I hurt your feelings by criticizing your admirable find. The Lowe Borchardt is harder to find than the DWM Borchardt and I would be proud to have one. I would love to have the one that you have. I really did think that because the Borchardt was a commercial gun that maybe your nice brown holster would be original. But I have to admit that I learned something from Alberts discussion.
Big Norm

Hey Norm, I think the "black thing" is the handle of a screwdriver... just my guess.

Hello Norm & John,

I believe that the 'black thing' is the leather sleeve for the round oil can or possibly the grease can.

Albert

It's a screwdriver.
C'mon, somebody do little sleuthing and tell me what is the last difference I am looking for between a Loewe and a DWM Borchardt.

Hi Ron,

Are the front sights different...???

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Nope, but you are on the right track. Go to the other end of the sights.

Ron,
Walters book (pg 74) says that there was a slight difference on the front of the frame and that the differences are comparatively minor and could have been effected simply by filing.
He also says that the sear bar was slotted in the Loewe and solid in the DWM Borchardt. I can't tell from the pictures in the book.
I also think that the black thing-a-ma-bob is the sleave from the oil can. The comes very close to the picture on page 75 of Walters book.
Big Norm

Norm
"Rockin WR" quoted the same reference in his post above, and I replied that I am surprised that Walter didn't list the difference I am looking for.
Probably the references that would show the difference are hard to come by and probably only a die-hard Borchardt buff would have access to them. So I will relieve the suspense and reveal that the biggest difference is that the Loewe Borchardt has an adjustable rear sight and the DWM is fixed.
The black thing is a screwdriver.
Best wishes to all for the holiday season.

Well Guys, thank you for your kind comments.
To answer you all,
Firstly I have been in the USA for the last 12 days with no laptop hence no earlier comments.
The holster.
I believe it is a replacement but very old.
It is actually a dark brown. The Holster came from England with the gun in 1982. It seems to me to be accurate but I have little to compare it to.I am happy with it,
The case lining I also believe has been replaced or the case has been refurbished at some time. The felt is actually a very dark green.
The black thing under the grip is the ebony handle of the screwdriver.
While in the USA last week I picked up a cleaning brush, the oil bottle and......a spare mag!
Ron, there is definatly a pin on the main spring assembly that is not on the DWM. (Refer difference between Loewe and DWM John Walter Luger story) also I found out that Loewe is pronounced as "Louver".
Kind wishes and merry christmas to you all,
Murray.

Murray,

I am not sure of the pronunciation of Loewe. For typesets that do not have the "�¶" character, the diphthong "oe" is substituted. It is hard to explain how "�¶" is pronounced, but it is kind of like "oer" with your lips puckered up. So that would make Loewe or L�¶we come out a little like "Loerva". L�¶we is German for lion.

I have never seen the name of the firm that bore Ludwig Loewe's name spelled other than Loewe. It could be that his family name was anglicized from L�¶we early on for commercial purposes, making it more attractive in international trade. However, if it always was Loewe, it is possible that there was an English connection in the family tree and the pronunciation would actually be "Low".

Ron and Murray, My understanding is that the Loewe name is Jewish. Ludwig was a merchant turned sewing machine manufacturer turned major industrialist. I have been gathering scraps of data on Loewe manufacturing over the year in hopes of putting a small essay together. A brief history, that may not be preciely accurate but is close, can be found at the follwing link.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...d=520&letter=L
The traditional German Jewish pronounciation would be "Low eh". BUt people do tend to pronounce things the way they want to and there might be wide variation from area to area. For instance "Kerry" is often pronounced "meat head" in the red states.

Heinz.
* Your dry wit is priceless!
* I still haven't stopped chuckling.
* Thanks,
Bob

I have to tell you all about an amazing coincidence.
I have always wanted a Borchardt and I finally got one, matching numbers 315.

My other interest is 1921 Colt Thompsons and I have four all with three digit serial numbers.
I have always wanted a Colt 100 round "C" drum magazine to go with them. They did not make very many in 1921-1923.
I finally got one at the SAR show last week with matching numbers.........315.
Now is that a coincidence or what!

I do have a number of "L" drums, (50 round) which are mainly Bridgeport, Crosby and Seymore and a 1928 Colt drum.
I have one early Colt "L" drum, number.....513!

I think I might buy a Lotto ticket.

Only buy one ticket Murray... it seems that considering the events of the last few weeks for you... that should be all you need :D

Why would minor production changes neccesarily coincide exactly with the name change from Loewe to DWM. After all, it's the same company and they were coming off the same production line.

BTW: Kerry has an invisable "s" in front of it and is pronounced "scary".