Mystery .45 cal. Luger Pistol...?
 

In John Walter's book, The Luger Story, on page 71; there is a photo of a .45 luger pistol. The gun's serial number is not mentioned.

The photo credit is given to a Mr. Joseph J. Schroeder.

Does anyone know which .45 luger pistol this is/was ?

Do I assume it belonged/belongs to a European collector (i.e. Mr. Schroeder) ?

Is this .45 pistol another serial number, other than # 2 or the Norton Gallery pistol ?

Might this be the serial # 5 that Michael Reese mentioned in his book, Luger Tips, that he personally held...?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Joe Schroeder isn't European, but a very well known and authoritative American collector and author. He has edited and published 5 editions of the "Collectors Digest" and written many articles. I don't know for certain, but I am willing to bet that the photo credited to him was of the Norton Luger since it clearly shows the Crown/N proof on the left receiver.

Mr Schroeder is very much an American and I think that he prefers Mannlichers. To my knowledge, there are only two .45 cal Lugers. A second one is in a museum in Shrievport, La. I doubt that it would be taken out of its museum case for pictures.
Big Norm

Joe S. is a life time Chicago area resident. In a past speach to the NAPCA convention, he mentioned draging his dad down to Marshall Fields to purchase his first auto loading pistols as a preteen. Some guys just know what they want at an earlier age than the rest of us. Tom H.

Thanks, all, for setting me straight on Mr. Schroeder.

J. Walter also mentions in his book a serial # 14 .45 luger pistol...

Can anyone educate me on this # 14. Has it been subsequently determined not to be "real"... ?

I am still haunted by Mr. John Allen (at Gun Blue Books, Inc.) telling me that three (3) .45 luger pistols are known...but he was not at liberty to state serial or owner name... :confused:

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

I beleieve that Mr Schroeder let one of the bigger trade mags (Guns & Ammo?) fire the gun to test its accuracy. It is allegedly 'priceless' because of its rarity. For anyone who thinks that it might take away from its value (they alluded to fact that it had not been fired before that) I think its uniqueness would win out.

Didn't someone do a limited run of special order .45 Lugers? For like $3000 each some few years ago? My thoguhts stray to Interarms, but they've been gone a while. Any ideas?

To the best of my knowledge...

Outside of custom John Martz work that converted two 9mm Lugers into one .45 ACP custom gun, there have been three post war producers of .45 Caliber Lugers...

The first type is by the Mauserwerke in Oberndorf... but it doesn't look much like the original 1907 test guns... It looks like a 9mm Luger on steroids... and I think leans toward Swiss Luger styling...I believe only one gun was made in prototype and it was last known to be in the private collection of Rolf Gminder in Europe...

http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/...Parabellum.jpg

Second, is Mike Krause... but the price is at least FIVE TIMES the $3000 mentioned earlier in this message thread... Here is a photo of Mike Krause's excellent work:

http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/45KrauseLuger.jpg

and the last is a Gunsmith in Europe... I don't have the info about who or how much, but they were much like the Krause guns in that they are custom made and with a high price...

These are photos from a European magazine article and unfortuately this is all the information I have on this series of pistols... If anyone has any more, I would appreciate knowing more details.

http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/...fromeurope.jpg

John, Yes, Mike Krause makes these excellent pistols. I understand the wait is several years tho...From a magazine article I read some years ago he also produces a baby in .380. I would love to have one but I am afraid I do not have an extra $fifteen grand laying about...I have to say, I do like the looks of Mikes pistol much better than the Mauser. Jerry Burney

I was in Sacramento last August visiting with the kids and also looking for Lugers. I visited with Gary Thiry on J street who runs a gun parts business to see if he had any decent magazines. We were talking about Lugers and he told me of a friend of his that had found a guy in Provo Utah that had an original .45 cal Luger and he was trying to get it away form him. I was surprised to hear this as it might be one of the few that exist. I had forgotten about it until this thread popped up. I'll try to contact Gary and see if he has any more info on this one.

Well, I called Gary. The friend of his that had the info followed up on it and it turned out to be one of those stories that had been passed down too many times and got better each time. The .45 in Provo doesn't exist, shame, it could have been a real treat if found to be true.

Hi, guys,

Can anyone jog my memory on the guy who made a couple of .45 Lugers using a regular 9mm frame, but getting the big round in the magazine well by dispensing with the detachable magazine and using a system like the 1911 Steyr Hahn. No, clips, though, it just loaded by pushing the rounds in from the top. I don't know how/if it really worked, but one of the gunmags wrote it up as the greatest invention since the light bulb.

Jim

Wyatt is the man or at least the gun, I believe is what you are talking about. One of the forum members has one for sale on his site, also I know that Ralph Shattuck had one for sale last year for $2,000 I think. Was pretty cool looking, big bore, you loaded it from the top.

Ed

Spoke to Mike Krause recently about this thread. He says the wait for one of his 45's is 6 months, not "years", the cost is $15000, with case, cleaning rod, and extra clip $2500 extra.

Herb,

I wonder how many of those custom .45 Lugers Mike has made?

You should invite Mike Krause to join the Lugerforum...the next time you speak with him. :) and thank him for his clarification on costs and waiting time.

I have serial number 10!

Gents, I'd very much appreciate any input on how Mr Krause makes his .45 Lugers. Does he make them with new parts or does he use some original ones (if so, how many?)? Thanks. ��lvaro.

Alvaro , he makes them from scratch, rumour has it that he was able to get the dimensions from one of the orginals and "copy" it. Very cool.

Douglas, do you shoot her at all? And if so, how good does she shoot?

:)

Ed

Thanks a lot, Ed. That copy bussiness had to be mind boggling; hundreds of exact measurements!. At first I thought the 15k bucks price was insane, but now I'm beginnig to think perhaps it is not. What I am now wondering is what the point of owning such a thing would be... ��lvaro.

Yes, I can't imagine! One of those is high on my list if I win the lottery.

A John Martz 45's (made from two 9mm's) go from about $4,000 - $6,000 (and I am sure up), but one of them is high on my lotto list too! :D

Ed

Guys,
You ain't gonna win the lottery, but you can ALWAYS get more money. Sell some trinkets, drink cheaper booze, suck up to the boss for a raise and GO FOR IT!

Tom A.

Ed,
Haven't had time to take it out and see how it will do.

Wizard,
I'm still turning over the .45 in my mind... May I ask what markings it has?
Thanks!

Alvaro,

Here is the contact info. fo Mike Krause' shop :

Krausewerk Collectibles
(650) 571-7583
83 East 21st Avenue
San Mateo, CA 94403

http://www.krausewerk.com

I am sure he will spend time on the phone talking to a potential customer...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Alvaro,
The only visiable markings are the serial number (10) on the front of the receiver, DWM on the middle toggle link (this is optional, and an intertwined GL on the rear of the rear toggle link. The serial number is marked on various parts not visiable when the pistol is assemblied.
The Wizard

the wizard
why dont you show us some pictures of it?

sverre :)

I only have a Kodak Brownie box camera and I can't even take good picture with it. Will try to borrow a digital camera and post some pictures.
The Wizard

Wizard,

A flatbed scanner (if you have one) can be used to take reasonably good images of the sides and the top... just place the gun on the glass and cover it with a white cloth before scanning.

John,

My El-Cheapo flatbed scanner won't make a decent image of a gun. The only part in focus is the surface laying on the screen. It is decent on photos and pretty good on type.

Al, the scanner I have used for 3-dimensional images is a MUSTEK 600 EP Plus that I paid $25.00 for during an advertising promotion several years ago...The images of my two lugers in the old Owner's Corner folder with my name were scanned, not photographed... It is all in the technique.

Try using higher resolution, try greyscale instead of color and use say 300 or 400 dpi for 3-D Objects... and see what happens...

Disregard file sizes for the time being and concentrate on image quality... Always save your image in the JPEG format (*.jpg) and if you have the option, save it in the best quality.

Thanks John,

My flatbed scanner was free with the computer--I think was an excessive price. That one is now in FL. The scanner I am messing with now is a Lexmark that you have to feed items into. It sort of works, but the slot won't take a Luger. I'll mess with the flatbed next fall and maybe with your help I can make it work.

Al,

even with a manufacturing hammer forge, I doubt you could make a luger flat enough to fit that scanner! :D I agree that you better wait until you return to Florida... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah,hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah,hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah,hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah,hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />

I about split a gut AGE!!!! I could just see you saying, darn computer guys, well I'll get this scanned, with a big hammer in your hand...

:D <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />

Ed,

Evidently that made your day. The hammer was John S's idea--I guess we made a funny.

I have been working outside all day, putting in underground electrical lines, so yes, I needed some comedy and it just struck me as funny.

Ed

The nice Luger .45 copy fabricate Mr. Karl Nedbal from V�¶sendorf near Vienna, Austria. Some pictures are on my website (sorry, in Czech language..) http://www.hoba.cz/index.php?c=clane...d=view&id=282. The pictured gun was sold three years before for $ 7500 and now is in possession of my friend. It is nice shooter and great experience.

Hoba, glad to see you here!

Ed

Jan Balcar,

Would it be possible for you to send me larger images of the .45 caliber Luger... or are these the largest images that you have?