Finnish Luger
 

Said I was getting another one and here it is. Picked it up last week. As you can see it is a Finnish M23 Luger with a mix of parts, nothing has the same serial numbers, Tikka 4" 9mm barrel, hole drilled in bottom of the breach block, SA stamps. DWM marked toggle with unmarked chamber. Hold open is present and works. All around a good looking little Luger. Price was right and it is in better than expected condition. Grips fit poorly but other than that I am pleased with my purchase.

So I have looked at a lot of pics of Finnish Luger's and I have not seen consistent placement of the SA stamp. Did they just stamp them wherever they felt like it? Mine has it on the left and back of the frame along with over the serial number on the receiver. Common practice?

And the serial number on the frame. It just does not look right. Numbers look too far apart from one another and the wrong shape. Were some filled in and re-stamped at some point? Plus the proof is missing from the right side of the receiver but a small spot is present where one might have been.

Just small details I noticed. Oh, and it came with one SA marked magazine. Mag has seen better days for sure. Anyways let me know what you guys think.

Thanks,
Eric

Good catch; ones I have seen the SA moves around but is usually on the left chamber as is yours.
Cool to have the SA marked mag, even if not perfect.

I have been told on another forum that 5K Finnish Lugers were issued with factory shoulder stocks......so 4in. bbl. with shoulder stocks. Can anyone on this forum confirm or deny this information?? I had never heard this information before, and would like to know if valid information. Sorry for the thread drift, but it does relate to Finnish Lugers. :rolleyes:

cool

Pretty much correct, there are several threads here or the other luger forum on these lugers and stocks.

Just use the search feature.:thumbup:

That sounds correct from my research. Unfortunately I did not get a stock. Maybe I'll run across one someday. Found some great threads on Finnish Luger's on this and the other forum.

Also found some good ones here.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=426709

I learned something new today!! Now if I can just remember it for more than a day....thanx.

Just out of curiosity, why the hole in the bottom of the breechblock?

Deactivated/ Vent in case of case rupture? Just to be different?

Vent for gas in case of pierced primer/case rupture.
Not to be different, for reason above.

Every SA with a Tikka barrel I've seen has this. I hear it was done to pistols converted from 7.65 to 9mm. Anybody with more knowledge than me confirm this?

No, I can't confirm or confound- but I believe I read somewhere that all SA pistols were so treated. Most were 9mm, maybe not, see the posts below, to start with.

From my research it looks like Finland purchased 5000 Luger's from Germany in 1923. Majority in 7.65 because of the restrictions of the Versailles peace treaty. Then more were purchased for the Winter War in 1938 and the remaining 7.65 pistols were converted to 9mm at that time. The Finnish Luger's that made it through the Winter War and the Continuation War got the SA stamp around 1945 and stayed in the Finnish Army for a long time. I read that some were in service as late as 1980. They are really interesting and unusual Luger's. Don't seem to get the attention that others do.

I don't know for sure, but I do not think the Versailles treaty was applicable for foreign contract sales. It would be legal to manufacture and provide 9mm guns to other countries (I think :)).

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...=--Dwight+IMKK

The P08 (9mm, 100cm barrel) was defined as "war material" (hence, the continuation of "commercial" Parabellum production in 7,65mm/98cm barrels).

--Dwight

Thanks Dwight. From your Treaty info it sounds like the Finns would have received 7.65mm guns in the 1923 time frame. I have a couple of questions: It would seem that given "Allied Powers" approval, there could have been 9mm guns produced for Finland (not saying they were, just posing the question); The use of square brackets "[ ]" usually indicates addition of words not found in the original text but inferred by context, so the question is: who added the "shall be strictly prohibited" to Article 170?
Ron

Ron,

The export prohibition was one of the most contentious articles of the Treaty. The German's constant contravention of it at came the closest to being the deal breaker in the path of the IMKK's decommissioning. I think you could view the Treaty as prima facie denial of approval--the French would have vetoed it out of hand, in any case.

I played a little 'fast and loose' with my use of brackets in the service of clarity within the context of the thesis--perhaps a little too much so. The full text of Article 170 reads:

"Importation into Germany of arms, munitions, and war material of every kind shall be strictly prohibited.

"The same applies to the manufacture of, and export to, foreign countries of arms, munitions, and war material of every kind."

--Dwight

Thanks.
Ron

Here is some info about SA-markings.

At the risk of alienating even more members here, I would request that you refer to it by its correct name: Tikkakoski (or at least its American equivalent/spelling).

We have several actual Finnish members here and they do take offense to the shortening of the name.

I believe (but can't prove) that shortening it causes it to be construed/confused as a crude Finnish curse...

Something like if a American barrel manufacturer named Dickinson were to be referred to as "a Dicked barrel"... :rolleyes:

Or if a Luger from a well-known deceased member's collection were to be referred to as "that Shat Luger"... :p

I hope you get my drift... :thumbup:

Here's another illustration (a true one)...When I was in the Philly Naval Hospital back in '71, the head nurse in the neurosurgery ward was a full lieutenant named Patricia Woods. Very pretty and all business. The corpsmen would call her 'Woodie' behind her back, accompanied with grins & giggles. I never knew what that term meant until the arrival of the Internet (we used another term in WNY).

Now, would you want to be called/ known by a vulgar term??? Or your sister, or wife???

The man had an honorable name: Tikkakoski. Let's honor him by using it. :thumbup:

I have a 4 inch 7,65 Finnish luger here, with T-marked barrel.
I has the vent hole drilled though the breech block.

Rich, if that upsets them, what do they think about this? (Sorry for the thread drift, but I couldn't resist.)

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4573

Dave, living as I do in New York State, that's about as believable as anything that comes out of Albany... :rolleyes:

.. as we do.

Hard to keep up with Cuomo's shenanigans...

Thanks! I've seen this pic before. A little more digging uncovered this. Anybody know what book this is from?

sheepherder - "a Dicked barrel"! Now that is funny!:thumbup:

Vlim - A T marked barrel in 7.65? Wouldn't a Tikkakoski barrel indicate it's been replaced? And I was under the impression a re barrel would have been in 9mm. Either way I would like to see some pics of you Finnish Luger.

Sure, here it is:

Yeah, sort of. I would have thought the true comment on Lt Woods more to the point. :thumbup:

I think it's a vulgar Finnish term, similar to 'woodie'. Innocuous in itself, it has crude connotations in certain phrasing. :)

I'm a Richard myself, and 'Dick' is about the only nickname that annoys me. I've been called that in belittlement. Usually by an ex-wife on her way out... :rolleyes:

I have a Takkakoski 9mm barrel, the 120mm one, but it is unmarked.

Tikka/Tikkakoski
 

"Tikka" in finnish means the woodpecker, the bird. So the whole name "Tikkakoski" is something like the woodpecker stream or torrent(?).
There is no reason to be upset about it. :)
I am a Finn...

The page shown above about the SA stuff is from a book:
Sotilaskäsiaseet Suomessa 1918-1988 I-III
Author: Markku Palokangas
:thumbup:

Yes! I knew it was a vulgar term! :D

!!

I see the distinctive snout of a Valmet M76 rifle on the cover of that book! I owned one back in the '80's. Odd tubular folding stock (folded to the left, leaving ejection port unmasked), 5.56mm NATO. Ugly rifle. :rolleyes: