Luger ID .30 cal or 9mm
 

Hello
First luger and all.

From the original owners information: 1916 DWM 9MM P08 luger.

When I was trying snap caps at the store, they would not chamber properly. The action would mostly close; however, there is a 1/8" gap where the action meets the barrel. The arm had almost fully depressed but was not quite there. I did not get a picture of the misfeed.

I am concerned that this is not a 9mm luger. I compared the markings as best I could to the given year and it is possible that it could be either a 9mm or .30 cal.

There is a picture of what the arm looked like when the misfeed happened. It does that once in a while when working the action with no magazine.

And the one pic that could determine it is missing ;-)
The muzzle!

Take the dummy and see if the front part of it will fit the muzzle.
If it is indeed 7,65/.30 only the tip will enter, if it is 9mm most/all of the front part will enter.
The 9mm has a stepped chamber and the dummy might be binding in that part so it looks like it is a 7,65/.30 chamber.

That or use a dial caliber. The difference between .308 and .355 is obvious.

I do not see a 1916 DWM P 08 picture, but a non-dated luger with a commercial proof.

Given your experience with the snap cap, it is likely .30 cal.

I have no Idea where you are from your profile, so I hesitate to say the normal test is to see if a "standard" wooden pencel will enter the bore! But that is a clue.

Of course you could shine a light into the chamber and see if you see the shoulder of the .30 luger chamber or simply a broken shell left in the chamber, or some other problem.

I'm with Don. I don't see a chamber date but I do see a c/N, both indicative of an alphabet Luger. If that's the case, the gun is most likely a .30 cal. (Unless it has been rebarreled. Does the serial number on the barrel match that of the frame?)

I can get a picture of the Muzzle.

I tried putting a .303 British Dummy round in the front and it stopped at the bottom of the round towards the bottom of the casing. (I don't have a dummy 9mm).

I assume that the dial caliper would be the best way to do this and will check tonight.

The chamber does have a large step in it which perplexed the store owner (not the original owner, just my FFL). I was under the impression that the .30 cals did not have a step because the round has a bottleneck. Maybe it is the other way around?

Other way round. The .30 Luger cartridge is a bottleneck round, which necessitates a "step" in the chamber to correctly fit the case.
dju

As I typed that response, the engineer in me realized that it made no sense :)

So... I did all of my research based on the 9mm. Is there anything about the .30 cal I should know?

I am still holding out that it is a 9mm as the .30 cal ammo seems hard to locate.

If this Luger is an alphabet(commercial) Luger, as it appears, it will most likely be in 7.65P/30 Luger caliber, unless it has has a bbl. change. Can you give us a photo of the underside of the bbl. near the bbl. extension where the serial numbers are located?? That will help a lot.

You are correct that the .30 luger is harder to find, and more expensive.

Add to that only a couple companies load it now and Fiocchi does not function in all pistols. Privi is the other brand- and less expensive.

Do a site search on .30 luger ammo for more discussion.

I can't get a picture as the guns is at home and I am in the office. Here is the picture from the seller.

Thank you for the photo, but it does not offer me the info that is needed to see if the bbl. is original, and serial #, a 9mm bbl. with the bore dimensions stamped on the bbl., or a replacement bbl.

It appears that this Luger has commercial parts, and also some military parts, making it a "mixed" Luger. Better photos would help a lot. See the FAQ sections on what to photograph for accurate identification of your Luger.

As noted above, a measurement of the muzzle will tell you what caliber it is.

Sorry about those horrible pictures. I will take some better ones. I did not realize my muzzle pics did not upload. Apparently they are too large.

Fiocchi FMJ ammo works flawlessly in my commercial 30 luger caliber. 50 rounds will cosy you about $30 delivered tho.

I have read some very good things about the .30 cal's performance. Apparently they are more like makarov's in performance (faster and less recoil) than the 9mm.

I guess I am kind of upset because I also just picked up a 9mm C96 and was excited that 9mm would serve multiple pistols.

When purchasing or looking for .30 luger, what do I search for? I have seen .30 cal luger referred to as: .30 Luger, .32, .32 acp (inccorrect?), 7.65.

Thanks

Either .30 Luger or 7.65 Parabellum. None of the others is an accurate name for this ammo.

We used to recommend the "pencil test" for caliber. A standard pencil will plunk right down to the bolt face when dropped into a 9 mm barrel. In a .30 Luger barrel, it will be snug or a no-go.

I tried a Pencil and it was tight but I could push it through. Not a plunk.

I also tried a .303 British round and that went most of the way but got stuck where the bullet is at its widest. To be fair, I was not going to push it any further.

Pics of caliper and muzzle (round is a dummy .303)

I am not sure I id the caliper correctly. I rotated it around the barrel holding the wheel to open the jaws more. It reads nearly precisely 7.62 (7.619)

Is this correct?

One more picture of the stamp. Flash brings out the dirt and rust. Any recommendations for cleaning up lugers without ruining their value?

Pic

Alphabet Luger, .30 cal.

So we have determined that it is not a 1916 9mm. What else do you want to know?
dju

So what is an Alphabet luger? I understand lugers were originally chambered in .30 luger and were done so after the war due to disarmament agreements.

What do I need to know as far as using this as a shooter. I rolled most of the internet for information and there does not seem to be anything special about shooting the .30 luger.

Have you read the stickys, or used the search feature ?

Lots of questions answered there.:eek:

Yes that is correct. I realized that as I was asking it.
:)
I was more curious about what makes one think that this is an Alphabet Luger. Is it because of the Crown n marking's with the 4 digit serial number? That is what I am finding.

I also see a few posts here and on other sites mentioning the consistency of the .30 Luger vs the 9mm Para. I will do more research; is there better performance with the .30 Luger over the 9mm? I imagine this has more to do with the .30 Luger being made with luger operations in mind.

Thanks for all the help by the way. I am kicking myself that I did not see that it was a .30 luger instead of a 9mm. My research is making me liek the .30 cal more and more though.

I really liked the idea of the 9mm as an easier round to get and more universal.

An "Alphabet Luger" is a vernacular name for a commercial Luger produced by DWM in the mid-1920s. The Alphabet Lugers have a four digit setial number with a letter suffix (i.e. serial numbered in a military fashion instead a five digit serial number like previous commercial guns.) The c/N is a commercial/non-military marking that means the gun is nitro proofed, or safe for smokeless powder. You can find the same marking on many German commercial guns of the same period.
What makes one think your gun is an Alphabet Luger? That's like asking "what makes one think my Chevy Chevette is a Chevy Chevette?" The serial number, non-dated receiver ring, commercial proofs/no military proofs, no police sear/unit marks, .30 caliber. Read the stickys. They'll tell you. 😉

In all this discussion and photo work, nobody mentioned the site FAQ, which has a very nice discussion and illustration of the difference between guns chambered in 9mm and .30 Luger.

i'll bet you it would get used and referenced more often if we packaged it up in a nice book instead of a free .PDF file and sold it...

Oh well...

Marc

Marc,
you're correct of course- but then no one ever reads the stickys, or the FAQ, or old posts, or uses the search feature.

Spoiled by the internet with instant answers and free; but not necessarily correct.

Josafoot,
this rant is not directed at you- but at many who come looking for answers and don't take anytime to check for themselves.

It is a pet peeve of mine- and means little in the total scheme of things. ;)

Then it's .30 Luger.

Painstaking, gentle cleaning with well-oiled 4/0 steel wool. Change out the wool frequently because it picks up rust--which is abrasive--as you go. A toothbrush with fine bristles helps in the corners. Avoid anything water based or acidic.

I agree with Bill....an alphabet Luger in 7.65P/30 Luger with a numbered safety bar to match the serial number.

I must be going nuts, I don't see the sear safety on that pistol- and I've never seen the sear safety numbered.:confused:

I do see the usual safety bar.

I don't see one either - never did. But the gun's an Alphabet.

You are 100% correct, my mistake of terms.......and I know better, but don't always type the correct name. Brain fade I guess, or some other defect!! Sorry. I will try to improve, but can't make any promises. :surr: