1939 P.08 of unknown heritage maybe Luger?
 

Hi fellow collectors,
I hope my english is not as bad as it sounds to me. I tried to read as many topics as possible to get things right, hopefully careful enough.

The Model I was presented to buy was offered by somebody who has literally no idea of what he has to sell, so all informations about it are rare at best...
I asked him for some pictures that match your requirements. Since the gun is not mine it is difficult to get the pictures made perfectly. Sorry for that.

Serial Number 4547 on frame
"Eagle" and "NPv" Marking on frame (couldn´t find anythig about those Markings)
"42" on front toggle link (Luger Company Code?)
"1939" on frame (Year of Production?)

Markings seem to be there but hard to identify for me.
Numbers are mathing except Magazine.

I would appreciate if anyone can tell me something about this item and maybe knows what it may be worth.

Thanks a lot, I hope I did this posting right. :bowdown:

Welcome to the forum. Others are more knowledgeable about these WWII-era Lugers than I so I will not clutter the thread with possibly erroneous information. However, I do want to congratulate you on your excellent English. I wish my German was half as good. :thumbup:

Michael, the Eagle and NPv markings on the breech block are Austrian proofs from the Vienna proof house.

And the pistol was made by Mauser.

It has been refinished, but I can't tell if it was dipped, or cold blue.....perhaps something else. Fair amount of corrosion and rust pitting on the outside.....hard to say what the insides look like. To me, it would definitely be a "shooter grade" Luger, and not a collector piece.

Thanks a lot for your replys, and for the hints as well! Yesterday I was searching again for the markings and found something on our govermental internet site. Maybe you know that actually but if not it may be interesting for you.
George is right about the proof sign (never doubted that!!) Does that mean it has been marked in Austria after 1945? If so, it is not 100% original and of decreased value...

So if its a shooter grade, how much should I pay? Ideas anyone?

Cheers Michi

The Austrian proofs are after 1945. It may have seen use by the Austrian police in the years following the war.

Hi Michi,
the value of the Luger is hard to tell because prices in the US are higher than in Germany.
Because the market of used guns in Germany is very limited, prices are much cheaper compared to the US.
To find out the market price in Germany I would recommend to check prices on "egun", the internet marketplace for guns in Germany.
Due to the model and condition, in my opinion, the value is about 400.- to 500.- Euro.
But as I said, check prices on egun, it will give you a good overlook of average prices in Germany.

Thanks for the info. Checked egun yesterday and prices indeed vary a lot between Germany and Austria (where I come from). No item hit at least 900,- whereas the owner of the gun I posted wants around 800,- what seems a little overdone to me since it obviously is a shooter after all the hints you gave me.

Maybe I search for some other guns for starting a collection ;)

So brace yourselves, more threads are coming! Haha!

Hi Michi,
I have not been here very long, but I can tell you that this forum is the right place to be for any questions and advice you have about Luger pistols. Reading the FAQ's (Frequently Asked Questions) are a great source to start, as well as going through the many threads in this forum. Acquiring a reliable shooter is a good way to start a collection, as it gives you the opportunity to shoot it without worrying about breaking a numbered part. AND... getting a real feel and appreciation for the gun in operation is a great way to understand why this gun has such a remarkable history. Of course the price goes down as well :)
Good collector pieces can start at around €1500 and they go up from there.
Looking forward to hearing what happens .... take your time....

By the way, your English is very good. (I am an English instructor.)

Your Luger was made in 1939 by Mauser in Oberndorf. The "42" is Mauser's concealment code during that early part of the war.

The serial number will also include a suffix letter which appears on the frame above the trigger guard in the front.

It's very hard to judge finish in flash photographs. It does give the impression of a poor pitted finish that may have been refinished. In the USA the value would be $800 or so if it is fully functional. Your prices may vary quite a bit. I think it's overpriced.

If you are interested in a Luger, you really should look over our FAQs.

Marc

If I were looking at this gun, I would use it as a shooter and / or a parts gun. The photos show a lot of pitting, as others have mentioned. I myself would not pay more than EU500. This assumes that the gun is fully and safely functional without your having to put time, effort and more money into it.

You say the gun "was offered by somebody who has literally no idea of what he has to sell," Seems the seller has a pretty good idea, seeing that his price is a bit high, as you and others have concluded. If you're not sure, or if you have doubts, then WAIT.

I'm NOT an expert, but... here are my own 2 cents worth.

Over-pricing takes different roads to arrive there. One is that of the charlatan, who certainly knows. An untutored seller may seem too optimistic due to lack of knowledge. It is a classic reaction to start dollar signs spinning in the eyes of someone who does not know a mis-matched parts gun from the million dollar Luger, but has heard of the latter, which influences the price.

Some sellers have open minds that will allow them to reassess the situation based on the facts. Others will stick stubbornly to their ridiculous fantasies.

Food for thought...... and consideration

Guys you are fantastic and thanks for ungrudging my english. To be honest, my dictionary is my best friend these days ;)

I am in complete agreement with you Lifer, and I am very convinced that the price of this piece is largely influenced by the other Lugers on the Market around. I will take a closer look at it on Thursday and try to convince him that a used shooter, already having Austrian Post-War Beschusszeichen and being in used condition may be worth 500,- Euros since it has widely lost its collectors value.
Maybe he agrees with that, I´ll keep you updated!:cheers:

Again, thanks for your Input :bowdown:

The only real argument the seller would have for increasing the price is that this gun has all matching parts. You state that all the parts are matching...except the magazine. OK There is only one magazine? Would be nice if there were two. (another point you could mention- especially if you want to shoot it)

Even if all parts ARE matching, refinishing and pitting would still be a strong argument for you to keep the price down. Serious collectors are very fussy when it comes to the condition and appearance of the gun. Even a little rust or pitting turns many collectors away. Also, while rust can be removed, removal of pitting is far more difficult. Even one mismatched part will cut the gun's value by 30 - 50%

Hope this helps :) Yes please keep us updated!!

Some sellers say that it is an all parts matching Luger, and they mean all EXTERNAL parts are matching. Those numbers are easily seen from the outside. There are many more numbered parts inside that can not be seen unless the Luger is broken down. Those parts are just as important in an "all matching Luger" as the external parts.....just saying.

Ahh good to know!
I always thought that when a gun is described as "all matching" that it means "ALL matching parts" including the trigger, extractor, firing pin, sear bar, safety bar, grips, etc, etc. which one does not see from the outside.

Was wondering about that when I was negotiating for my 1917 DWM- the seller said "all matching" but I hesitated to ask him such questions, since it would appear that I'm questioning his integrity.
Last thing anyone needs is a misunderstanding along that line. Thanks for the comment.

I understand that even if EVERYTHING matches, EXCEPT even one part, let's say, the firing pin, that the value drops like a stone...

Mahlzeit, Guys!

As promised, I want to send you some more Pics. Some of the Markings are identified by now, like the Viennese NPv Markings. But I´d be glad if someone could tell me more about some of the other. Especially those on the inside. I read some Posts about the drilling marks and production marks, which I can see on this gun too (and it makes me feel like really getting into this :thumbup:).

Hope the pics are good enough since I still have to buy good Optics for my Canon and build this Photobox :order: These pics were made on a quite cloudy day ... you know ... diffusing the light...

Cheers Michi

Ah, one oh the pics is the Holster that came with it, so... don´t know if its custom made or really old stuff. The pitting seems really bad compared with some of your collectors pieces, but I decided to go the "it´s all history, you know - 1939 and still working, even survived police service" way here.

The interior marks that you've photographed are factory inspection marks that were applied as the pistol was made (or possibly as it was refurbished). They represent intermediate inspection steps as the parts are manufactured and fitted.

The barrel may have been replaced during the refurbishment by the Austrians. The type font of the serial number dies doesn't look like factory Mauser dies.

The Haneal Schmeisser milled magazine is one of the best made for the gun, and should serve you well shooting it.

Do the new photographs represent the pistol that you have purchased? What was the price?

Marc

Mahlzeit Michi, Schönen Tag!
Yes there is significant putting, but your gun looks like a fine shooter. I too have a collectible, but I have also decided to obtain a shooter... because I like to shoot! After all, guns were made to be shot, and getting that experience is essential, I think, to fully understanding this gun and appreciating what it can do. I do not want not shoot a collectible (that thread in General Discussions) but I DO want a chance to shoot a historic piece without getting all nervous about it.

Your pics are good....

Hi Guys!
You like the pics? Thanks, I dir my best ;)

Yeah I bought the Gun last Week. He wanted some 850,- Euros for it (around 900 Dollars), but with the help of you guys and the FAQs here I texted him down to about 660,- Euros (700 Dollars). Since it has all legal Markings I can shoot it here on my range. Austria is very VERY strict when it comes to shooting historical guns. Or guns in particular... or even owning guns. We are allowed to own 2 (!!) guns, while Rifles are unlimited as long as you are 18 years old...

Anyways, it´s fully functional and according to my gunsmith in an outstanding mechanical condition. No need to say that I am happy.

Does anyone have hints about the Markings on the barrel - esp. the jigsaw-styled? Couldn´t find anything about it.

Guten Tag Michi!
You talked him down another EU200 ?! Nice job :)

Would be very interesting to hear how the gun laws work in Austria... they sound similar to those in the Netherlands (Thread- "Ownership of Firearms in the Netherlands" in General Discussion Forums / General Discussions page 2 dated 12-04-2016)

Servus!
Yes, I was surprised too about the price but it seems to be a good sign ;)

Will have a look at the Law-Thread. Sounds interresting!

Good job with your negotiation. Now the fun begins.
BUT be careful.... these guns have a way of "multiplying." The collector and shooter market is very active both in the US and in Europe.... and I am sure in other countries as well...

I don't think I would worry about them "multiplying", as the poor soul can only legally own 2 handguns at once....how sad.

Oh yes... true.
How about a few Luger carbines? Would they qualify as rifles?

Of course there is a chance to declare the Guns as a Collection, so it´s possible to own more than two. But it´s necessary to convince the govs that you´re a real collector by owning lots of literature and stuff about the topic. AND you have to focus on a specific era. Pretty stupid but law is law :thumbup:

Ah well.... Could be worse.... and, as you say, Law is law.
How does collecting work in Austria? Do you also have to declare a specific segment or time period?

Yes, but my Gunsmith told me it´s best to stick with the term "Ordonnanzwaffen bis 1945" since it covers any military used weapon until the end of WWII. :thumbup:

Guten Tag Michi!
Your segment: "Ordonnanzwaffen bis 1945" (Government Issued Weapons until 1945) have a starting date? Theoretically you could start anytime! Could this also include weapons made in other countries? Also handguns AND rifles? Good idea.

In the Netherlands we need to be a member of a "Sammlers Schuetzenverein"- (Collectors shooting club). Sounds OK until one finds out that there's an 18 month wait :)

Morgen!
I guess theoretically there is no starting date, but I believe military weapons since they are completely forbidden to own without permission (what else...) are allowed when they are older than 80 years ... or 100? Don´t know exactly...
BUT the segment includes any kind of weapon used in service, except automatic guns and explosives.
We have some govermental goodies for members of Shooting Clubs too, since it is easier for them to purchase special Ammo for example. Like manstopping ammo and the likes.

We have to have a beer together when I am in Amsterdam next time ;)

Guten morgen Michi!
A 1917 DWM, Erfurt, Mauser is now 100 years old :)
And is not an "automatic."
Yes please let me know when you are in Amsterdam and you can try out special Dutch beer.
ABER..... "Diebels alt" in Duesseldorf ist herrlich!!

Haha yesss, Dutch Beer is highly recommended :cheers:
Sorry, I meant aged Military Rifles. Guns are always very hard to get. :thumbup:

Ahh- historic rifles rather than handguns, OK