T.M. P Kasten : Trommel Magazine Ammunition box
 

A new to me "P Kasten", which is the box designed to hold 5 trommel magazines, a loader, and some 24 sixteen round boxes for the L. P 08 ; the "Artillery Luger".

This one must have quite a history, as we often say "if it could only talk".

Probably made about 1917 when the TM or "snail drum" was beginning to be used by the Germans. Perhaps it also served the Weimar police as a magazine for the Erma sub-machine gun.

Some how it survived two world wars, and years of use -probably as a tool box, until it was "found" in Poland by a forum member and imported to the US. When imported the "guts" had been stripped out and it was just an empty box as seen below. The interior was restored to the condition you see, using an original box as a pattern.

I have since added a couple TM's, loader, and reproduction WWI ammo boxes.

I have another TM, but as you can see- need two more to fill it up!:D

Don, very nice set up as it appears you restored it right. Curt

The ultimate accessory!!

G2

Don, what variations are your Trommels?

Curt,
the two in the P Kasten are Numrich reproduction mags, I have a 2 nd model Bing in the safe.
I'd like to find/buy a first model at a decent price for the box, and may go with another repro to "fill it up". Not sure I want to invest in 5 originals! ;)

Nice box Don , I realy enjoy it , owning three myself
/
Have a look to the pdf in my signature for pics

Perfect!!! Where did you find the repo ammo blue boxes?? I searched for years!!

Curt,
I can't take credit for the inside dividers, they were done by
Kris Antczak who is a talented wood worker:thumbup:.

Keoki was kind enough to supply the "master" patterns by furnishing one of his original boxes for a pattern.

Erick,
I copied the labels and used rubber cement to affix to WWII and repro boxes.

They are ok, but I want to do more of a higher quality when I can buy/borrow a good box of WWI ammo.:cool:

Patrice,
thanks. I have looked at your pdf- it convinced me that I really did want to own a P Kasten! Nice boxes and great presentation.
Thanks for sharing yours, they are an inspiration to spend $$!:D

This is really nice project - and reminded me that I happened to see this on my computer today

Yes, I believe those are the P Kasten of member Patrice in France.

Thank you Patrice.
Your pdf solved a mystery for me.
I have searched for which country the two men in uniform in Picture 31 are from. The picture indicates Sept. 1938 in Czechoslovakia.

I was doing research on the Condor Division in the Spanish Civil War. I could not identify the uniforms on the men in Picture 31. I did not find any information on Czech military uniforms. Thanks again for helping solve this issue.

2 ww1 ammo
 

Sorry, they are both faded~ Picture from Jans' Imperial~

Don, I was surprised to see in your first post that the box lid had a single 'door hinge' on it rather than a full-width piano hinge. Do you believe the 'door hinge' is original??? :confused:

Richard, if I am not mistaken there were several manufacturers of these very rare boxes; some subtles differences you may have seen on other boxes ?
Don, congratulations on this wonderful accessory !

Do you believe the 'door hinge' is original??? No doubt about it. ALL original P-Kasten I know of were made this way. Strange that the Germans would use only the one hinge but that's the way they were made.

All I have seen or had have a single hinge.

No signs it ever had anything else on it; other pictures seem the same.

Take a look at Patrice's site.

I did. I noticed the 1938 pic with the soldiers holding Bergman SMG's and trommel magazines, which is interesting. I've read that 'rear echelon' troops were issued the Bergman's in WW II, so it would follow they would have the trommel magazine chests as well.

But in my own limited experience, we carried handguns and magazines in a steel box about the same size as the trommel chest (for bulk transport) and if we had it open and needed to move it quickly, we'd grab the lid and carry it along to wherever we needed it. It had the full-width piano hinge. No one would bother to close it and latch it and use the carry handle - No, we'd just grab it and run it over to the firing position. :D

The wooden trommel chest with the single center hinge wouldn't last too long with that kind of abuse, I think... :p

Thanks To A Few Of My Heros!
 

George and Jerry!!

I agree it is not the most robust system, but that does not mean it is not the way it was done.

I expect the P Kasten was a "semi-expendable" piece, carry the drums to the debarkation point, load up, over the top and leave the box behind; quite likely many never came back to reclaim the box. JMHO

Eric,
thanks for posting your reproduction box; I can see two differences in the picture from my box:
-the front latches hinge the opposite way
-the wire handles on the sides are smaller diameter(or at least appear to be)

Really well done box for sure.:thumbup:

Interesting~https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP_18

Don, Eric's box is an exact copy of mine. They all have slight differences in hardware.

Case in point, each of Patrice's three boxes has different hardware.

This was a huge project made by at least 4 members each focusing on each seperate part. The actual wood was used and the hardware handmade. Can someone repost the narrative as it is facinating undertaking. Its an exact duplicate of Georges' piece and was used as a template for Jerry and his crew! I'm so proud to own one of the few that were made! Eric

Maybe this thread - :confused:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=27502

My hero!!

I came across this almost real except for a few spacers~ https://www.dropbox.com/sc/ogr2b4k5h...SPTtUDSQt-wGfa