My first acquisition
 

Greetings,

I just received my first luger. I would like your input on what I have. I just know it's an Imperial Navy Luger. It appears to be all matching except for the the magazine. I didn't take off one of the grip panels for fear of cracking it. I'm not a photographer so forgive the pics, I tried to get them all in focus.

Also, would like to know what the value might be. I don't plan on selling it ever, just want to know if I paid too much and if I can shoot it.

Thanks for your time,
Henry W

Additional pics
 

Additional pics

More pics
 

Additional pictures

A very nice Navy with no flaws that I can see. Definitely a high end gun, but let's see what the experts say.
A good source for comparison shopping as to value would be Simpsons, Ltd. website.
Congratulations!
dju

Hi Henry,
Welcome to the forum! You have a very nice 1906 1st Altered Navy. #5438 is a previously unrecorded gun and I think a collector to collector value would be about $5,000.00. Naturally a dealer would charge more.
If you would like a link to the Navy List which lists all recorded Imperial Navies world wide, send me a PM with your email address.
Regards, Norm

Nice catch and welcome!

You can learn a lot about these by reading the posts in the Navy sub-forum; Navies are popular and can get a little complicated as to variations and markings. Many have been faked, yours looks good as already said- you got lucky; I believe there are as many "messed with" Navies as legit ones on the market.

Value covers a broad range- it is easier to say you got a good deal or not if you want to share the price.

We're scattered around the country, I did not see your state or city in your profile- perhaps you are close to one of us? And a first name would be nice, I don't want to call you a "monkey".;)

Thanks for the input. I guess I got a good deal. I paid roughly $1200 for it including taxes, shipping and dros fees.
So do you think I shouldn't shoot it? Should I look for a shooter instead?

Henry W

Look for a shooter, look for a shooter, look for a shooter...! In today's market you got a terrific bargain and a very collectible gun.

Henry, the choice is yours, since you own the gun. If you're willing to risk reducing its value by half when a numbered part breaks... I'd buy a shooter, considering the collectibility and value of this one. Then again, if the worst happens and it's only worth $2.5k thereafter, you're still ahead in the investment. Ron is right, you cut yourself a smokin' deal! Color me GREEN!

Congrats on acquiring a very nice Navy. I see nothing out of order, but I am far from being an expert on these Lugers. The price you paid for this Luger is fantastic and I would take a pickup load of them for that price in that condition. Perhaps you should purchase a lottery ticket, as you are on a roll. I, am a shooter, but I would not shoot that Navy. Find a shooter to take to the range.

Henry,
Great deal, you paid 1/4 or 1/3 of a market price range.
By all means, spend another like amount for a shooter, then you will have two lugers for less than the price of the Navy!

Nice start to luger collecting!

Any your pictures are quite good and thorough.

What a great deal on an excellent navy pistol! Take it to the range run one mag through it, clean and put it up. That navy is too nice to be a shooter.

Agree 120%

If anything goes wrong with your Navy. You will never forgive yourself.

And I am mostly a shooter.

She lived over a hundred year unscathed! As its' latest owner protect her virginity for the next owner~ Your photography is excellent! Eric

Hi Henry and welcome to the forum.

As already mentioned, I would not risk breaking a numbered part by shooting your Navy Luger.

Much better to get another one expressly for shooting, or sell this one to a collector and buy a shooter as a replacement.

These are rare and highly valued. Norm is an expert, and by his eye it appears you have a good one (these are often faked from another model to generate increased value).

Marc

You are out of your mind if you shoot that pistol, whether just one mag or a full box. For what reason, to see if it really works?? If a numbered part suffering from metal fatigue, breaks you can always come back on this forum crying over your loss.

I don't think that you realize how fortunate you are to have picked up such a fine example of a P-06, that is even unit marked.

No I get it. I appreciate all the advice. It's just I didn't realize it would be worth this much and had my heart set on firing it. I'll just wait for a shooter to cross my path.

I shoot mine...
 

I take my all matching Navy out and shoot it once or twice a year. But before I do, I swap out the extractor and firing pin, (The commonly broken parts), with non-matching spares, and re-install them after I clean it up. And I make sure it is well lubricated. It has a hole in the end of the barrel, that's where the bullet comes out. The Germans weren't afraid to shoot them.... I'm pretty sure I'll get flamed for this post.

I won't flame you. Your gun your $.

But you might as well remove the holdopen when you shoot, it also gets broken a lot.

I've also seen the rear toggle open cracks more than once (not on mine luckily).

And finally the breechblock can also break, seen it happen a couple of times, and it also happened to me. :banghead:

By the way, the Germans used them when they were new not collection pieces. Besides they were issued, so who cared if something broke.

Congratulations on a nice all matching (except for the magazine) P.04. For its condition, you got an exceptional bargain. On a major dealer's site I would expect to see it marketed for triple what you paid at a minimum, and quite likely four times!

It is a P.04 from the first contract, most likely delivered to the Navy in May 1906. Beginning at the end of 1909 the pistols were marked with unit/property marks. Your's is weapon number 1161 belonging to Werft Kiel, the dockyard arsenal in Kiel. Weapons with this mark were issued to vessels commissioned under the control of the Ostsee command structure When the vessel entered the dockyard for an overhaul, or was decommissioned, the pistol would have been returned to the dockyard arsenal.

Collectors would describe it as a "First Altered" since it is a first contract pistol that has had the operation of its safety altered circa 1912. Originally it was safe when the safety lever was up and the word Gesichert (Secured) visible at the bottom of the area under the lever. The operation was reversed because the act of inserting the pistol in a holster had a tendency to move the lever. You can see the area that was milled out to remove the Gesichert, which was then applied so it was visible when the lever is down.

What a deal !
You did great !

Wow, great pics of a great pistol
Thanks for sharing them

Henry- beautiful pics of a beautiful Navy! Thanks for sharing. Bill

there is a serious difference in this transaction price and the value of the gun.....both parties were grossly misinformed about the item....or there is some question of the trail of paperwork in the past...you need a certified value established on this weapon for your insurance and piece of mind.....i am all for "good deals" but am concerned someone was "had".

i sleep good at night knowing that in a fair bargain both sides were a little dissatisfied when the deal closed.......

Having re-read the beginning part, it's a case of two uninformed parties that made a deal. The surprising disparity was apparently discovered here, after the gun was bought, and the new owner became a new member after the purchase.

I know what you mean, though. The major beneficiary of the transaction seems to be an appropriate steward of history and respectful of what he now has. At least this is better than its having been bought by one of those heinous "flippers," who doesn't give a damn about the gun--just the $, and then sold to someone with more money than appreciation or good intent.

I bought a bunch of parts for Erma toggle pistols. I was on a budget, so I counter-offered a hundred dollars less than the asking price, and the seller accepted. Not too long after, I had sold enough of the parts that I was able to send the guy a PayPal to cover the amount I'd bargained him down. He was happy with my gesture, and I was happier, too.

It wasn't a private party type transaction. It was an estate type auction. So I don't feel I got one over on them plus I went by the limited pictures they provided, so I also could have ended up with a skunk. There was no guarantee it was functional.

I figured what I paid would be the price of a good shooter and that's what I wanted. I can sleep good tonight knowing I got a great pistol and they got what they wanted...cash.

As far as being uninformed, I wouldn't say that exactly. I did do some research prior, but I am new to the mil-surp/C&R world. But there is only so much you can research from half dozen low def pictures.

I have bought a item or two where I later found out it was a super deal and made out.
I have also bought and lost money on several transactions.

On a few forums I have seen some people talking about taking advantage of others and proud of it - that I don't understand.

Sorry, Henry, that my conjecture was so far from accurate. Under the circumstances you've related, I'd be crowing about what turned out to be such a sleeper. It's my impression that auction houses do the best they can to research and expose what they have, in order to get the most bucks for whatever bang. But they can't know everything about everything, and relative windfalls occur. I congratulate your wonderful fortune at acquiring such a nice Navy...and the only sting to the deal is that you still need to buy a shooter!

I'm actually kicking myself for not getting more. They had another Imperial Navy, Artillery and a dozen other P08s, that went for around the same price I paid. They also had around 5 C96s, that I tried to bid on as well. So, I'm not the only one that got a great deal on a Luger.

I would have probably bought more but with California laws changing next year I had to budget my cash flow on a few modern semi autos rifles before the new laws take affect.