New mark to me
 

I'm new to Lugers so there's lots I don't know and I've been reading everything I can get my hands on to rectify this. I did run across a Luger that had what I assume is the manufacturers mark that I'd never read about and its roused my curiosity. It's an oval with a capital H and D in it. Anyone??

Eric

Can't answer with no picture; does not sound at all familiar.

made it so you'll get notified

where is it marked? Makers marking would be on toggle to me?

Marked on left or right? That sounds like a unit or factory marking (factory such as issued to their guards, there are known examples)

Marked on the very front of the frame directly below the barrel with the pistol assembled. The weapon is marked "Made in Austria" on the bottom of the barrel. I see no mark on the toggle.

Eric

Eric, It sounds like you have a new Bohler barrel in your PO8, probably installed by "HB". TH

Thanks, Tom. Is a Bohler barrel a quality part?

Eric

Bohler made high quality steel. It is often associated with barrel steel.

I doubt you could find a better replacement barrel than a Bohler... unless it is custom made. They are good stuff.

Thanks, Marc and John. The members of this Forum sure are generous with their knowledge. Lugers as a class of weapons are quite complicated for a simple 1911 guy.

Eric

Eric,
I can't agree; there are as many or more ins and outs of the 1911, IMO.

Historical pistols have a myriad of differences, as do their parts- and they are not numbered to help determine if original to the pistol or not.

Fast forward to today, and the endless variety and variable qualities and configurations of pistols, sights, barrels, calibers, etc- and there is no end to 1911 variation!:D

Simple indeed.:rolleyes:

Correct, Don, there are a lot of modern 1911s out there but they're not the least complicated to me due to the years I've spent with them. I can't say the same for the early 1911s since I wasn't interested in the collecting end of things but in shooting them. As you say, not having a parts numbering system like the Luger makes it harder to know what you're getting.

On the other hand, the Luger is a whole new thing to me and trying to wrap my head around so much makes them complicated seeming. Someday I hope to get to the point in my Luger experience where I'll look back to this time and chuckle at how it could have seemed so complicated.

For instance, why is the German word "gesundheit" on the thumb safety since I believe it means health? ;)

Eric

Bless you! Luger complication is nothing to sneeze about. :rockon:

No, it's not gesundheit... look closer...

"sicherheit" means "Safety"...

In the same sense that the romance languages are rooted in Latin, German and English are both rooted in old English. This has some interesting consequences, including similar sounding words that mean completely different and unrelated things.

Marc

All, the word under the safety lever is correctly spelled "Gesichert" which Google properly translates to English as "Secured"

Tango3,
I think you are "hooked" enough to buy several books and start studying the ins and outs of lugerdom. ;)

Well of course Google is always correct- as it is the internet!:p

DWM decided to put "SAFE" in English in the same spot as "Gesichert" on some of the pistols sold into the English speaking world- so I do believe in the context of the Luger safety marking that
Gesichert means Safe!:evilgrin:

Here is a picture of an Austrian barrel on a shooter. Is this the same as yours?

Don,

Although I am not fluent in the German language, I was obliged to study the language for about 4 years way back in the middle of the last century....the German word "sicher" does as you indicate mean "safe" (or "secure") The use of the prefix Ge- as in Gesichert, indicates the past tense in a similar manner that the suffix -ed does in English....Therefore the appropriate translation of the word in German context would be "secured" or made safe. In a similar manner, the use of the "Geladen" on the extractor is translated as "loaded".

The use of the word "SAFE" on the guns intended for export to the USA, is intended to mimic those guns made in the USA where the word SAFE was used. Not many firearms made in this country were manufactured with loaded chamber indicators, so the Germans really didn't know what to mimic. They literally translated "Geladen" into the word "Loaded"...

I can't point you to a reference for this speculation, but my rusty (not trusty) German language skills combined with my small arms history knowledge and experience are the basis for my opinion.


So in the context of German language, the 'Gesichert" label in use for the Luger safety would be translated as "secured" (or "safe") in the American context.

Now if that didn't totally confuse you... I will try harder to raise the level of obfuscation on the issue in my next installment. :D

Gesichert also = locked cf http://dict.leo.org/ende/index_en.ht...ingle=on&pos=0

--Dwight

And I think Tango3 was just joking. :rolleyes:

Anyways, the early Portuguese Lugers say seguranca which means safety.

I love such fascinating discussion and the resultant detailed info that I learn. Hats off particularly to John Sabato for his illumination. Thank you. I love this forum. :typing:

For our next discourse may I suggest that we determine "how many angels can dance on the tip of a (firing) pin." Would the count be different if it was fluted or not? LOL :thumbsup:

John,
I'm not any more confused than usual- but the actual "literal" translation would be "safed", the past tense of "to safe". If there is such a verb in English.:p

My only point was that the meaning of Gesichert is "safe" to an American pistolero(how is that for mixing languages) when applied to that position on a luger pistol.

I used to try to use "pig-german"(as in pig-latin) when traveling in Germany, it is amazing how often just putting a "Ger" in front of an English verb will work for a past tense.:D

I also thought it was a joke, hence my comment about "bless you" and "nothing to sneeze about". :)
Ron

I figured as much. ;)

You got me. And I apologize for starting a back and forth wasting your time. I have a bizarre sense of humor, I'm told. Probably from 38 years of Middle School science instructing. Things kinda rub of on a person after awhile. But you've got to admit that at a glance, Gesichert kinda/sorta could be mistaken for Gesundheit. By the way, I can't believe the jimungus length of some of the German words in books/articles I'm looking at!

I also did it to illustrate one of what makes the Luger a little more complex for me...I know next to nothing about German ((or French or Russian or, well you get the picture).

Once again, apologies.

Eric

Love it, Ron! Were you also a long time middle school teacher too?

Eric

I blame it on the nuns!

Boy, Don, am I ever!

I'm reading everything I can get my hands on.

Eric

Just don't ever loose that sense of humor.:D

Other than saying "Made in Austria", no. It does have a capital N with the top of a P attached to the right side of the N with a little capital V under the head of that P. Next to that mark is a tiny spread winged eagle or falcon.

The seller does think it's a "post-war rework" which I'm guessing means it's had one or more modifications to a pre-existing handgun.

Eric

I'll try not to, Mario. Heck, I'm pretty sure that I couldn't even if I wanted too!

My wife sometimes becomes exasperated with my humor, saying that it's like living with a middle school age teen. I counter this by pointing out that she's lucky I hadn't taught Kindergarten for 38 years.

Here's a meant-to-be humorous essay question I once asked an 8th grade Geography class, "How can Germany be full of millions of Germans when apparently there are no Gerwomans since they're never mentioned?" Drove them crazy! Another time I asked them to answer this: " Why is there Berlin? True or False? Justify your answer".

Eric

Eric, I can relate to this. I was a 3rd through 8th grade student at St. Jude's Elementary. At the conclusion of 8th grade I was accepted into St. Joseph's Seminary for the priesthood. Fortunately for the Catholic Church, I discovered girls that summer, turning down the Seminary.

Eric

I'm lying to you right now. True? False? :bigbye:

My favorite is "Define the universe and give 3 examples"

Kurusu, Ron...welcome to the Club!! :rockon:

Congratulations!

Eric

.... and you humor is appreciated here, too!

(I learned EVERTHING I needed to know in Kindergarten)

Much appreciated Mac Cat.

So true about kindergarten!

Eric

John: well said.....

"Gesichert" means "secured" in the sense of being "locked" or rendered "safe"
"Sicher" means "sure" in the sense of being positive about a conviction.
"Sicherheit" = "security."
Example - "Aber sicher!" means "Of course!" same as "selbstverstaendlich" = "goes without saying!"

Hi Tango3

The "Standard Catalog of Luger" has a whole chapter on markings- here's the reference:
http://selfdefensefund.com/wp-content/uploads/Luger.pdf

You can ID your P08 using this catalogue- values also included- book was published in 2006