New to me Interarms Parabellum
 

Newbie to the Parabellum here. Been a 1911 guy all my life so this is a bit different, to be sure. I've been lurking around the forum, reading up on everything I could. Fascinating weapons!

I was curious if one of you could tell me anything about my Parabellum number 11.00.2553.

Thanks,
Eric

Eric, welcome to the forum and congrats on your new baby! I would suggest you add several photos of your Luger; they will garner more informative responses. Do you have the original box and accessories?

After a range trip give us a report on your experience. :)

Eric,
you may want to get a copy of :
http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=18587
enjoy that new toy !
Bill

Bill
That's definitely a book I'll order. Thanks for the heads up!

Don
I'll include some pictures later today.
The pistol did come in it' box (has same serial number on the side) with what I understand to be most of the accessories. It's missing the little colored tag and the target.
Thank you for the welcome!
Eric

The authors of "The Parabellum is Back" also frequent this website.

You have an earlier Mauser Parabellum pistol. Likely made during 1973 on one of the earlier production runs.

These are very well made. Do you have box and accessories? Any specific questions?

Marc

Welcome to the forum and congrats on owning a Mauser Parabellum. They are very nice handguns and a real hoot to shoot. Sounds like yours is pretty much a complete package.

The OP wrote:
"The pistol did come in it' box (has same serial number on the side) with what I understand to be most of the accessories. It's missing the little colored tag and the target."

Good to have some of the "accessories", but the missing tag and target will hurt to a purist as it is
"incomplete". Most who collect these later Mausers want them new, unfired, and complete with all the little things in their original box.

These are not particularly valuable(compared to an original), and some here like them for shooting.

If shooting is your desire, you have a good one there.

serial numbers tell it to be 9m/m

Thanks all: Ben, Don, rhuff, Marc.
Don, I bought this for shooting so while having all the accessories would still be nice, I figured that my use of it was going to hurt the collectability side of things.
As to the weapon itself, everything was pristine except the grip screws which had the slots slightly damaged. I'll replace those.

One thing I haven't seen that I could use direction on is lubrication. All my pistols are, up to this point, 1911s and I'm real familiar with their key lub areas and amounts. But a Parabellum? Yes, I figure that the rails need it, just like the 1911s, but what else and how much? I haven't read anything about this and have found only one YouTube vid that showed this. On this vid oil was applied liberally to just about every piece of metal in and on the weapon with special emphasis on all pins. What made me a little unsure of this was that the owner kept dry firing his weapon constantly which seems to be a large no-no with the Parabellum. Makes me sort of question his lub suggestions. So suggestions are welcomed, gents.

I'm also new to blued pistols, of which my Parabellum is one. All my 1911s have other finishes...IonBond, stainless steel, Duty Treatment (Dan Wesson finish option), Hard Chrome, and a couple with the surface applied paint. Some of these are fussy with solvents or lubricants or both. For instance, Duty Treatment gets permanently blotchy with certain CLPs and Renaissance Wax and the use of such substances means living with the look or a refinish. What are the do's/don'ts with a blued weapon?

I always field strip and clean my pistols after every shooting session and am assuming that that is the recommended procedure most Parabellum owners employ? Detail strip and clean/lub every 5000 rounds. Same with Parabellums?

Finally, this beauty seems to have a lot of springs. How often does one change them? I know the average number of rounds that I can run in my 1911s before I should consider a spring change. So I keep a detailed shooting journal on each and every one of my 1911s so as to know when I'm getting close to those round count points. I plan on doing this with my Parabellum of course, hence my previous question. Help please.

If any of you have important suggestions on items I haven't mentioned, please sing out! Something like...since my pistola is an Interarms Parabellum that has never been shot, is there a break in period? Should mags be pre loaded to pretension the mag springs?

Thanks,
Eric

Lugers like oil, any good gun oil- thin not thick, no grease.

I'd clean and lube after each shooting session.

One of our members shoots his luger in competition, he will come along and give advice on a "lot" of shooting.

I doubt any of the rest of us would fire a luger 5000 rounds; I wouldn't- I have 6 I call shooters and the most any get shot is with one or two full 32 round drums in a session.

Springs should not require changing until you notice a change in ejection pattern or distance, again JMO. There are only 3 coil springs that do work, ejector, striker, mainspring.
The ejector is a flat spring and subject to fail as any leaf spring will - or not. Leaf springs on the mag catch and the sear bar not likely to fail. forgot the very small spring in the disconnector, they don't "fail" but may get stuck due to dirt/dried lube, just keep it lubricated.

Mags- just use them, they will be "stronger" than you are used to.

Maybe this will help, just remember the Luger was a military issue firearm for 60 years, so it is a robust system; being replaced for reasons of cost rather than performance, IMO.

Be careful of over cleaning things. After most range sessions, I wipe the gun down, run a boresnake through it, lightly oil it and spray it down with a preserving gun oil like RemOil.

After several hundred rounds, I'll disassemble it and do a more thorough cleaning.

I store my guns in silicone impregnated socks or bore-stores. Beware of actually getting some forms of silicone on the gun surfaces. Blued surfaces, including the salt blued finish on your Interarms Luger, are pretty resilient. Just don't leave fingerprints or moisture on them for long periods of time. Don't store guns in holsters.

It's not a good idea to dry fire a Luger. The area of the breech face where the firing pin protrudes is rather thin, and it's all that stops the firing pin when nothing is in the chamber. Look it over to be sure it's still nice and flat.

I do think that these Interarms Lugers are collectible, but in a different sense and class as compared to military Lugers or DWM / Mauser commercial Lugers. There were not that many made, and few remain pristine examples. They are very well made, and their high cost of manufacture ultimately lead to them being discontinued. The market simply could not bear the high price. Estimates for reviving Luger manufacture today run into the $5,000 range.

Eric, if you are looking for a set of snap caps to be able to cycle and dry fire your Luger, I would recommend "B's" brand. Dumb name, but the best snap caps I have found...and I think I have owned all the brands out there in various calibers. They are not made of plastic (that I have had break), or have flaking coating on alum (that comes off in the gun) like some of the other popular brands commonly found everywhere. I got mine on Amazon.

Eric,

If you are comfortable with care and cleaning of 1911s, then you should have no problems with your Luger. They are all machines.....although some are beautiful machines!!

I have a tendency to run all of my handguns fairly well lubed, and because I live in a warm climate, I do use more than just oil on the heavy friction areas(slide/frame, toggle/frame, etc.). I have been pleased with TW25b grease for a number of years now, including on subguns. I use a good quality gun oil on the less heavy friction areas like the toggle train junctions, etc.

I agree with Marc about not doing extensive breakdowns after every range trip. To me, it just isn't necessary. I do keep my guns clean and lubed, but not OCD about it.

I will suggest that if you are going to be shooting your Mauser that you purchase a few Mec-Gar aftermarket mags to use and save the originals. The original mags have a tendency to break the plastic bases when loaded fully. You don't want that to happen.....I assume.

Stick with std. velocity quality ammo in 115-124gr FMJRN, and avoid any +P,+P+, or NATO ammo. Enjoy.

I agree with rhuff. I also have found the Meg-Gar P.08 mags are sold at https://www.cdnnsports.com on specials that they run frequently for $19. I picked up several and haven't found them priced lower.

Can anyone verify that the standard Luger magazines (used with the P.08 like those mentioned above) will fit and work properly with the Interarms Parabellum pistols?

I think I remember that there is a difference, but am not sure...

The MecGar mags work fine in mine.

Don,
Great info and much thanks.

When I go to the range, I usually shoot 100-200 rounds with my 1911s, sometimes even shooting 300 or more, as the mood strikes. Getting an unfired, "young" for a Parabellum, Mauser, I planned on range trips mirroring my usual. It's not unusual for 1970 vintage 1911s to be rigorously fired so I assumed the same would be true with the Parabellum. Is this incorrect?

Eric

Marc
What, specifically, is the danger (danger is probably too strong a word) of over-cleaning the weapon? I ask 'cause I know I'm OCD in cleaning (albeit carefully) my 11s but that hasn't been a problem with them.

+ on silicon socks. I use them on all my 11s and already have the Parabellum wrapped in its own. I wipe my guns down before putting them away, however, the non-blued finishes on them make fingerprints a non worry. I'll make sure to take care of that with this weapon. I never store my 11s in holsters and that'll even be easier with the Parabellum since it won't possibly fit in any I own. I conceal carry my 11s but have no plans to do so with the Parabellum. This is the very first handgun I own that violates a rule I have that it must have the capability for CC. Oh well, my rule to break!

++ on no dry firing! Thanks for enlightening me on why, though. Much different than the firing pin set up on large caliber 1911s. I have learned how to safely de-**** the P so as not to damage it.

I must say that I'm VERY impressed with the robust and precise construction of this class of weapons. I can see why these are not currently produced since their price would place them high in the custom 1911 market!

Thanks,
Eric

Richard,
I haven't had the chance to field strip the Parabellum yet but have read and viewed YouTube videos and it looks easy. I'll let ya know, hope to find time to do it tomorrow so as to take it to the range on Saturday.

"...although some are beautiful machines." Are you intimating that Ps are beautiful and 11s aren't? Just messin' wid ya. I do find my 11s beautiful ('specially my Les Baer Commanche Heavyweight Monolith) but I must say that they have a much more "industrial" beauty than the sleek beauty of the P-08.

I'm surprised by the number of you who aren't anal about the meticulous cleaning of these close tolerance weapons. In the 1911 world, tightly constructed (close tolerance) means clean it carefully and frequently as opposed to a loosely fit weapon although I've run as much as 750 rounds through my tightly fitted Baer Monolith during one range trip with just occasional oil with no problems. Constant 11 forum argument between the cleanly group and the leave 'em filthy group.
Since I CC my weapons, clean is how I roll.

Thanks for the Mec-gar suggestion. I've purchased and received three of 'em thinking that the factory mags might have issues with those, to me, goofy plastic bases in that they might be brittle with age. Looks like these bases have pins that have to be punched out to replace them that could be a real pain in the butt. Why don't they just make them out of metal to start with. I know...cost but it's a cost I'd gladly pay.

+ on using 115-124 gr FMJ round nose. Since it won't be a defense pistol for me, no need to fool with hollow points.

Thanks,
Eric

Eugen,
I got lucky and found CDNN Sports and bought 2 of 'em along with the one Mec-gar at $29 I had previously purchased. When I compared them, they were identical except the CDNNs didn't have "Mec-gar"or "Made in Italy" stamped on it. Sounds like I made a good choice.

Thanks,
Eric

Marc,
I'll let you know Saturday evening after a range trip.
Eric

Eric, I proudly wear the label of being anal, having OCD, etc. about cleaning my Luger and other guns. I do it gently and meticulously and throughly enjoy the time spent caring for my little buddies. Heck, cleaning and caring for them is half the fun.:D
I think Mec-Gar (dumbest name) is the sole manufacturer of all the new P.08 mags. Somebody fact check me on this. I have noticed the same slight variances on the markings on various Mec-Gar P.08 mags. But, they all work just fine. However, I have had occasionally problems with 'fail to load' at the range, if I insert that 8th round in a new mag. Smooth sailing with 7 rounds. Please report your range experience.

Tango3,
As you get more experience with your luger you will answer many of your own questions.

As you have observed they are much different from 1911's, and transferring what is "good" for a 1911 to a luger just is not going to work.

Entirely different mechanisms, and have different needs.
In my experience the luger does not get as "dirty" as a 1911.

Perhaps because they are not fired as much, but maybe due to the close tolerances just not leaving nooks and crannies for dirt?

I'm not sure why you think you can't cc a luger, it certainly has the "capability"- what ever that is.

If you choose the hollow points, they will feed, I've found several that work reliably; but it does depend on the pistol, magazine, and ammo.

Also look at the truncated cone Fiocchi for defense.

I always alternate ball and hp ammo in my carry guns, after thorough testing to be sure they are 100% reliable.

Just enjoy learning the ins and outs of a new platform, they are extremely easy/quick to Field strip; and really no need to go beyond that and oiling; especially starting out with a "new" pistol.

Welcome and have fun.

Bet you can't have just one!:cheers:

PS.
Do read the posts under the shooting and reloading section of this forum; especially the "shooters" threads. Lots of info and pictures there.

Don,
Nice to meet another clean freak. And I do, like you, enjoy the cleaning process. Very therapeutic.

Not surprised to hear that new, fully loaded mags might have round feeding issues. Not uncommon with 1911s.

I'll report back on tomorrow's planned range trip.

Eric

Don V.,
That they are much different than a 1911 is sure an understatement. That's why I'm grateful that so many of you are helping me out.

As for CCing a Luger, you could be right. I guess I thought that finding a modern CC holster for it could be problematic, given its shape and the rarity (I've never known or even heard of anyone doing it) of it being a carry piece. Also, would carrying it Condition 1 be a problem with its protruding firing pin, even with the safety on?

I'll give it some defensive rounds, as you suggested, in the future. I'll also try the truncated cone Fiocchi, too.

ADDICTION ALERT: darn it, Don, I already find myself perusing Lugers for sale on the sell sites many of you have mentioned. And I haven't even fired the thing yet. Crazy! Since I want to shoot them and am not wealthy, I've been looking at the more "shooter grade" weapons. But even at that, these things ain't cheap! Illustration: I'm replacing the two grip screws on my Interarms Parabellum that some ham-handed person buggered up and a replacement factory pair are, gulp, 50 bucks. Even the custom made screws that come in sets of 4 for my 11s aren't that expensive! In this regard, my 1911s, parts-wise in cost, feel more like the cost of replacement parts for my 350Z while the Lugers feel more similar in cost to that of Porsche's. Is it 'cause they're both German perchance?

I'll be sure to take your advice and check out the "shooter/reload" section of the forum, too.

Eric

If you are handy and have some tools like needle files, a vise, cold blue, etc, the grips screws can be repaired....unless really screwed up!!! I have repaired and reblued many grips screws to like new condition.

$50 for 2 grip screws seems excessive to me. Have you contacted Tom Heller(Luger Doc) on this forum?? He has a large number of new parts for the Mauser Parabellums. I have delt with him many times and you can be comfortable dealing with him.

I own a number of 1911s and shoot them all. That are also beautiful weapons to me, especially the WWl and WWll ones. Now the tupperware handguns, that is a different situation all together....:D

Probably made in '71-'72, Swiss version(straight front gripstrap), 1553rd one made(ser nos. started at 1000), probably 4" barrel(I looked at my database and it falls with other 4 inchers).

Tango3,

After you have studied the luger a bit, you will realize that the striker with its attached firing pin is retracted when the pistol is charged, so no worries there.

The sear engagement lug and the sear bar are substantial steel items, and not likely to shear; add to that that the sear bar can't move when the safety is applied(a "sear blocking safety"), it is as safe as any cocked and locked firearm, IMO.

Actually there is much more metal engaged in a luger than the thin sear nose and hammer notch on a 1911.

As to leather, depending on what you want that can be a challenge, but a luger will fit many styles of 1911 holster!
Try it, one of my favorites is a 1911 lined flap holster, now holding a 4" bbl luger. ;) Not exactly CC, but you get my drift; a Yaqui slide comes to mind as an option.

The original Mauser grip screws are over 40 years old now, and like any NOS parts, pricey.
You can find repro made screws at Sarco and Numrich for about $6 each, but do order them with something else or shipping is high for just two screws

Thanks, rhuff, useful information.

Steve, thanks for the historical data.

DonV,
I stand corrected on my unfounded opinion on the conceal and carry ability of the Luger. Seems that mechanically it IS every bit as safe to pack Condition 1. The weapon continues to surprise me.

A Yaqui did come to mind as I pondered a previous post of yours. It bears some further thought. I have a go to custom holster maker in Tennessee that has made a holster for me in the past for the Baer Heavyweight Monolith with its unusual frame. I plan on talking with him, too, about coming up with, say, a pancake style in black elephant, sweat strap, trigger cover, cant to be determined due to the Parabellum's steeper(?) than the 1911's cant. I'll report back as I know more.

The nformation about screws is appreciated. I'm getting the impression that OEM parts are a bit pricey!

Eric

Drat!!

Family matters today prevented the range trip. Rescheduled for Tuesday AND Wednesday unless dementia rears it's ugly head again! Report to come. I'm chomping at the bit!

Eric

That might be me he's referring to. :o

I have not much to add but here goes. When I'm training for competition I keep them well lubed and clean on the outside, but only detail them from 500 to 500 rounds. Never go to a match with a squeaking clean pistol, generally I clean them thoroughly before the last training session where I shoot some 100 rounds.

My shooters have the original step chamber that was discontinued in favor of the modern 9 mm chambering in 1942. 500 rounds is more a less the limit for the old fashion chambering in between cleanings before it starts giving trouble.

Other useful advices:
Keep the striker chamber inside the breech-block clean and free of excess oil.

Always keep the front base of the ears well lubed.

Use molykote in the striker engagement to the sear bar.


About the recoil spring:

On a vintage Mauser there should be 21 coils on the spring, if original, sometimes in the USA those springs were snipped a few coils because of lightly charged ammo. In that case the spring should be replaced. But, I don't think there are any modern springs up to the standard and durability of the original ones.

Can't say anything about the post war Mauser, cause I don't know squat. Only saw one of them, in the box and unfired.



Afterthought:

Even though a Luger is quite safe for concealed carry, even more the 1906 pattern with grip safety. My advise be, never conceal carry a pistol you are not prepared to part with. If, perish the though, you ever need to use your concealed weapon, It will become "evidence" and you're most likely never to see it again.

Mario,

Aha, they caught you! And you confess!:thumbsup:

Seriously, thanks for this information and insights. It sure says a lot that about this weapon that as tightly built as it is, it can nicely handle quite a bit of shooting with the build up of crud and keep on keeping on. Well, l suppose it was built for war, after all!

Nuts 'n bolts suggestions on the care of a shooter that I'm so new to is much appreciated. This is what I need to know. By the way, with my 1911s magazines, I dismantle them after use and basically wipe the parts down and reassemble which is easy to do with those mags. Do I do this with Parabellum magazines? Do I just drive those small pins out and clean them the same way?

Yes, carrying the Parabellum or any of my high end 1911s is a risk if the worst happens and it has to be used defensively. This doesn't make me happy but I continue to do so. You see, I have an aversion to DA or DA/SA handguns since I've always shot the SA types exclusively and don't have to give thought to the "which kind of trigger is on the weapon I'm currently carrying" question. Also, my small hand with short thick fingers makes reaching the pivoting triggers employed by all common DA or DA/SA striker fired pistols and revolvers I've tried a no go unless, for instance, in the case of the SAA revolver, the cocking of the hammer pulls the trigger back and close to the rear of the trigger guard. All of my 1911s have custom short triggers installed so I can use them. The Parabellum's trigger is JUST reachable for me (and, yes, my first striker-fired weapon! Who'd a thunk?). I'm already not happy with the factory grips that came with it. The edges are like vertical cliffs with a plateau on top and I've contacted a Forum member who makes grips to fix this. They feel uncomfortable and by cutting down the cliff slope should increase my finger reach, too.

Eric

On magazines:

Not all Luger magazines are made equal. The early models (wood bottom folded metal type) are a bit fragile and require some attention. I avoid use the ones I have. The extruded late models are quite sturdy and generally problem free.
The Mec-Gar magazines also work well, which I find surprising since the 1911 ones are kind of crappy. Just one caveat, the plastic base on the Mec-Gars is prone to break (happened to me during a match), had the bottom replaced by a wooden one (after locating the innards that had fallen out) and it gave no more trouble.

Never disassembled a Luger magazine, never needed to, for cleaning, I just lower the follower( using the side button), about one inch, and give it a good scrub (on the follower and inner walls) with an old toothbrush, spray the magazine with oil wipe out the excess and I'm good to go.

Eric, not sure which grip handle you have, Regular German type or the straight Swiss? If you have the Swiss I recommend going to eBay and for @ $30.00 you can get the red Swiss grips that fit without any filling or adjustments and they feel great.

Eric if you have the Swiss type handle I recommend the grips I bought on eBay. No filing or adjustments needed.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=36002

I agree 100% with Kurusu about NOT removing the mag pins to routinely clean the inside of your mags. That is not necessary, and will lead to problems.

Kurusu, rhuff,
Thanks for the mag cleaning information. Will do as suggested, Kurusu. Bought 3 new Mec-gars to use per suggestion. Used them yesterday at the range with the pistol and they worked perfectly. Careful not to slap 'em into the pistol ala 1911s so as not to crack the bases. No need to though since mags seem to easily snap in. Range report hopefully tomorrow. With pictures. Preview: WOW!!!!! What a pistol!

Hayhugh,
Great grip info! I plan on Lugerdoc making a pair for me but sending in the frame for two weeks when I just purchased it and want to shoot it means putting this off a bit. Trouble is, the factory grips, as a number of you pointed out are truly not very comfortable. So...I took your suggestion and just ordered a pair of the reds you suggested. Be here by next Tuesday. Thanks muchly!

Eric

You be very careful from now on. These pistols cause addiction.

Any forum member will tell you the same. :D

It is too late for Tango3, he has been exposed to the virus.:evilgrin:

Yup! He's down that slippery slope all right. :evilgrin: