Question about sideplate numbering convention
 

WWII vintage P.08s made by Mauser have a convention for numbering sideplates. If the pistol's serial number is 1234, the inside of the plate should be stamped 13, the first two digits of the serial number plus one. Did other manufacturers follow the same convention?

What should I expect to see on the inside of a sideplate taken from a WWI vintage DWM or Erfurt Luger?

I don't know about Erfurt, but the first 2 digits of a 4 digit serial will be inside a WWI DWM side plate.

I disagree with Don V above. DWM military side plate don't have the first 2 digits of the serial inside. If any number at all, there may be a single digit inspector's mark. Tom

To my knowledge, the only manufacturer to do this was Mauser. They did it inconsistently. Some side plates have the first one or two digits of the serial number. Others more commonly have the first one or two digits plus one. Some have no number inside. For example, my sn 715g gun has "8" stamped inside the sideplate.

The stamp I have seen inside DWM side plates is the worker mark as Tom mentioned above. If your find serial number related digits in a plate on a DWM it's likely a Mauser made plate.

The interior numbering must have been plant process workflow related in some way. It would allow separation of more than 100 plates from their fitted pistols for salt bluing in larger batches, which must have been more efficient during high production volumes. My Mauser Lugers with plates that are not numbered inside were made during periods of lower production volume.

You guys missed this revelation( maybe on the other luger board).
I'll find the thread and add a link to it.
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...e+plate+number

See the picture in post # 6

I did not believe it either; but just spot check your matching DWM military lugers. They are there on the inside, bottom ledge.

Keoki pointed this out, and by jimminy - he was/is correct as usual.

I might agree with the statement about "all", as I have not looked at all side plates; but the ones of mine I checked do have them. Not talking about commercial pistols, just military.:cheers:

DWM P08 side plates are numbered on the inside starting with 1911 dated pistols which are numbered in the military fashion. Early 1911 dated DWMs that are numbered in the commercial fashion are not numbered on the inside. All DWM artilleries are numbered on the inside as are 1914 Navies.

I have 1918 Erfurt, S/N 6364 u
The outside of the plate has "64".
Inside the plate on the far left side, is the number "6" in super tiny font, and "6" in larger font.
Almost looks like they were experimenting and didn't like the first tiny "6".

6
6

Thanks George.

To the "skeptics"-
please check one or several of your DWM military lugers as George describes.

If you would report the date and presence or absence of the inside side plate numbers it would be helpful. Of course only pistols with matching outside numbers on the side plate would be significant.

There are no doubt some incorrectly "restored" pistols, and some replacement side plates with only out side numbers matching.

Thanks to all who have replied. Gotta love this forum. I learn something every time I visit. Still wondering about Erfurt.

The inside of my 1917 artillery Sn 7412a has a "G". Or maybe it's a 6.

Tom

The 6 you see inside of some plates (not talking Simson here) are makers marks, as they seem to not represent anything. That said, there has been speculation, since you seem to see a '6' more than some numbers IMO.

I have always been told and read that Erfurt did not number them on the inside - nor did Simson

I will look at a few DWM's I have, however, since I collected Police pistols first, they could have gotten their replacements from DWM or Mauser and so they would be un-numbered. This is assuming its not a part that is marked as an armorers part. I know that I have an Erfurt sideplate that is acceptance marked - and of course have heard of 42 marked (Mauser) but if they ordered a bunch, would they be accepted on the way out or at the police armory?

You are not looking in the right place. The numbers are on the bottom edge of the side plate interior. They are damn near impossible to see but they are there.

Seems like a heck of a pain to mark them in the first place?

Even on 1917 and 1918 Geo?

Not if one was finishing more than 100 side plates in a batch.

Without the inside two digits, one could not tell which pistol it was fitted to.

The very same reason Mauser marked their side plates inside; only mauser marked them on the flat side, not the bottom ledge where the lever pin locks in.

For those who didn't follow the link, here is the picture mentioned above with the inside DWM numbers circled:

Oh look, a #74 !! :)

Yes, a 74!

They tend to be hard to see; one required quite a bit of cleaning to see- the numbers tend to fill up with crud and oil and "disappear".

My 1913 Erfurt does not have a partial serial number inside the plate. The plate itself appears to be marked with an "A" and the lever has a small Crown B (similar to the Erfurt stamp on the outside of the plate to the left of the serial).

Thanks.
Erfurt plates require more input.
Neither George nor I said Erfurt plates had numbers inside.

I have not found any similar numbers on the few matching Erfurt pistols I have; an occasional letter or number yes, but no "pattern" of use. The one Simson plate I have has no number inside either.

My preliminary conclusion is that Erfurt did Not number plates on the inside.

This may be logical, as Erfurt production volume was only 1/2 or so of DWM production and thus it may not have been an issue for them; or their batch process was designed around finishing less than 100 plates per lot.

I was just responding to the OP's inquiry about Erfurts in posts #1 and #9, nobody seemed to address that. In post #2 you said you didn't know about them.

Figured that & why I said thanks and we need more Erfurt input.

Seems lots of folks want to know the answers, but are not willing to put forth any effort to look at pistols they have.:(

If all the readers of this post only checked one or two pistols, we would have a lot better idea of the situation, whether DWM or Erfurt, or Simson- all info would be good to have!:soapbox:

I will look at mine when I get home today. You want the info on 1911-1918 dated pistols only?

Just went through a few drawers:

DWM 2 digits on the inside bottom of the side plate: confirmed.
Mauser 2 digits on inside, some with 2 first numbers of serial, others with one higher, as reported.
Mauser 3-digit serial number: Only one digit on the inside (150b has a lone 1 on the inside).

Some oddball pistols with different lay-outs, including late war assemblies and a Portuguese contract.

Here are three DWM sideplates. One is a 67 - it is a orphan sideplate

The other two come from guns that are both police, but appear to be original sideplates.

1st one is the 67 - front is last two of 78

2nd one interior # is 7 - which came off my matching 724 -exterior is 24

3rd one interior # is 32 - which comes off an original sn of 3242 - exterior is 42
(which comes off of an interesting one, one of those with the #8 in the front of the original 4 digits. So its sn now is 83242)

Thanks Guys, much appreciated.

Wayne,
we were looking at military which would be all dated 1911-18, except for the few 1920/21.

But please do look at any and all you wish and report.

Any information is better than none.

Thanks again.

Tom and Mark,
would be great to hear from you on side plate numbers you may have.

ok here are mine'

1917 DWM Artillery SN 7227 inside of side plate 72
1912 DWM SN 7954 inside of side plate SMALL 8
1912 DWM SN 5275 inside of side plate 2 on lower edge and 5 on flate part of plate near retaining pin
1910 DWM SN 2557c Inside of side plate 5 on lower edge and 5 on flat part of plate near retaining pin
1910 DWM SN 1344d Mark that looks like a 3 but could be machine marks no numbers visible
1918 Erfurt SN 5031 On long prt of ear that takedown lever locks over is a 12 and the erfurt proof on trigger lever.

Thanks Wayne,
Looks like DWM was "deciding" how to do the numbers in in 1910-12.

Could you post a picture of 5275 and/or 2557c?

I will be glad to post pictures but I will have to wait until Monday I'm on my way to the shore

I just checked two of my alphabet DWM Lugers, and both of them have the first two numbers stamped inside the sideplate. One is an early "i"(1921) and the other a "k" suffix(1923-24).

I'll be glad to check some when I can access them again.

Went look at my 1915 DWM:

Got confused as ever.

Only number inside the plate is a 2 on the lower edge, placed in a fore and aft disposition instead of athwart ship as the others shown.

# 7293 no suffix.

Marked 93 outside. Everything matching except for the rear toggle pin and magazine (came with a synthetic bottom Fxo)

Doubt it to have been boosted. It already has an unnumbered rear toggle pin and the finish even though original, has been over aggressively treated, presumably to eliminate surface rust, to the point of having the proof marks barely visible and a very shallow date over the chamber.

It's not one of my shooters. Not because of its collector value but because of its age.

Interesting "nautical" description!:)

At least the "2" on the inside makes sense with the serial number.

With just the "2", the last two digits would not repeat for 1000 numbers; probably more than enough to return the correct plate to its pistol.:confused:

Thanks for looking.

Best I could manage.:o

A 1915 DWM would have an unnumbered rear toggle pin :) They did not require it until 1934 (?) or close to that date - a numbered pin prior to the early 1930's means it was added - could be armorer, armory or the factory, or someone who thought it would correct an issue...

Well! That's good news. :cheers:

Might as well add the 2 Mauser shooters:

1938 S/42 - The two first digits of the serial number inside the two last outside.

41 BYF - Same as above.

Swiss Alphabet (1921) S/N 2049 i, has a "20" in the same size font at the bottom where the trigger pin cut out is found. It also has tiny "1" in the middle of the plate, but sideways and of course, nothing on the outside.

1917 DMW LP08 = S/N 803 c, has an "8" in the Trigger Pin cutout, just like my Swiss, and it also had a "1" sideways in the middle of the plate. The outside has the "03" you would expect.

"byf" 42, S/N 2011 l, has a "27" inside and the "11" outside.

My 1918/1920 DWM, #7500b, has a 74 stamped on the flat inside the side plate.

Well, that is interesting for sure!

Factory error or incorrectly restored or changed/re-numbered in 1920????

More potential questions than answers in that one.:confused:
But at least there IS a number stamped inside!

Thanks for posting.

Sounds like one that was boosted by a person using the Mauser protocol.

Many times I think it is lack of knowledge. I read on facebook or another forum where someone quotes an old book or a poorly written book on 'well-known' facts that are outdated theories.

Such as the interior numbers on a sideplate, I have heard folks say it was on all lugers. Until recently I did not know that DWM marked theirs.

The 1920 marking - some guy said that it was to show arsenal rebuild and that they were okay for sale commercially-had never heard that one before.