I just took the plunge and bought a Mauser-made 41 Luger, complete with holster and one magazine. The finish is excellent and the markings crisp and clear, thus pushing me over the ledge to shell out some cash.
I am more of a S&W collector so I know the power of detail and hoping I got this right! Pretty much a guess on my part.

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Congratulations on your first Luger GKITCH and welcome to the forum. Great looking pistol. If you have the time please post more photos of your new acquisition so the members can offer their insight on your Luger.

Lon

Congrats. Looks like a nice honest gun, but we need more pics to give you any idea of what you have. Top, both sides, and all markings. Recommend you take the photos outside on an overcast day and make sure they are in sharp focus before posting them.

Gkitch,
Welcome and congrats on your first luger.

I'll be the bad guy and say that while it is a decent pistol, the finish is far from excellent, with only 50-70% of the blue left.

Just what is the mark on the frame?

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One thing I can tell you. It has been shot frequently.

Truth is not "bad". It is what I seek! Thank you.

It's the letter P, It's part of the serial number.

Military Lugers are numbered in 1 to 9999 blocks, then a letter is added.

So your pistol is number 906 P.

I'd be interested to see more photos of the holster. The closure strap is a replacement, resembling that of an Artillery holster.

Overall the gun looks like a good honest old warrior that has earned its wear and marks the old fashioned way, on the battlefield.

Nice gun!

dju

Op, congrats on your first Luger and welcome to the forum. I bought my first Luger back in April. I highly recommend studying the FAQ section as there is a wealth of info there.

I think you did well and I am sure you will enjoy it. Report back after you take it to the range to "break it in". :)

There are some obvious problems with the holster, including the upside-down closure straps, this belt loop which appears to be a replacement, and the missing stitches shown above. No pic yet of the back, which would reveal whether WWI or WWII construction, but for WWII, the back would be one piece, including the mag pouch. I think the maker's mark would also provide this info, but to my callow eye, it does appear to be a cut-down Artillery holster--the toe looks a little funny. It is not stamped P.08 on the back, either. A shot of the front of the closed holster would reveal the shape of the flap, and a full shot of the back will tell us about the construction of the back--and whether there are remnants of the suspected original board/strap mounting configuration.

Also, the finish condition may put this into "Collectible Shooter" category. The later guns are reputed to be a bit metallurgically superior to the earlier ones, so If you swap out the vulnerable numbered small parts for something more expendable, you could blaze away with it and really enjoy shooting it! 9mm is the cheapest ammo format, too.

A Wonderful Luger Cherry! You will never forget your first nor your last!!!!

whoa, whoa, lets not get crazy here.

This is a WW1 era holster (LZA) that is police modified! The 5722 on the back helps substantiate that and the strap is not un known to occur like this. But let me look again :)

I also merged the photos, at least the first ones to make it easier on my old eyes :D

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Hi Greg, and welcome to the forum. Congratulations on your first Luger.

The "p" block of 10,000 pistols was made very early in 1941. It was the second block worked on that year - probably during January and February. It was also made during the time when Mauser was transitioning from the "42" manufacturer concealment code to the new "byf" code, which your pistol has. There were approximately 130,000 made in this variation. Yours would be one of the first few thousand.

Look inside the side-plate and you should find the number "10" stamped.

While the high edge wear on the Luger's finish would tend to indicate a fair amount of usage, there were also production process problems at Mauser that lead to bluing that looks almost translucent. I have a 1939 Mauser Luger that has this appearance, and this might be one too... Hard to judge from photos.

I agree with Ed's observations on the holster.

The metallurgy of these Mauser made Lugers was excellent, and represented an advance over the alloys used in earlier generation pistols.

Marc

Marc

Marc

I was under the impression that during January and February 1941 Lugers were still being produced with the manufacturer code "42".

I think I was told somewhere that my 41 BYF 8024o had been
produced around May.

I've been wrong before.:o

Congrats on your first Luger, and welcome to the forum. Be aware that Lugers are like peanuts.....it is difficult to have just one. Enjoy!!

I bought it as an investment and to fill a gap in my rather random collection of cool guns. It was reportedly a GI Bring-back and that seems to ring true. I think I paid a little too much but that balances out a fairly good deal I got for a couple of other things the seller had. Since I plan to have it a while, the value will eventually catch up to what I paid anyhow.
So, gentlemen, what would a fair 'retail" price be for the gun with the holster? Curiosity is getting the better of me.

actually I like to hear, I paid $.00 for it - but no one ever admits to that

I would say its is at the low end collector arena. I don't remember if you said if it was all matching? What is the magazine? Did you get a second magazine or a loading tool in the holster?

$600 is a cheap Luger shooter - i figure the holster is worth $150-$200 - Its in decent shape, but stitching is a bit loose.

$700-$900 for the luger and holster - maybe a bit more, but depends on bore condition, etc. I think in real life it probably looks better?
Usually an investment is a bit nicer, a rougher example will only go up a bit over time, so depends on how much you paid...

ed

Too late for that, Ed!

WWI with mag pouch appended... Thanks for the LZA info. And in the latest shots, an extra stitch-hole is visible for the former military configuration closure, on the lid. I think I can barely make out the evidence on the body, in the right place for the original strap's buckle end, but it's there. If anybody knows police holsters, Ed surely does!

I'm guessing a retail pricetag of around $1250 for the rig IF it matches.
dju

Yes, all numbers match and the bore is good. Mechanics are sound. The sunlight in the photos make the finish look more faded, yet there is some clear finish wear. All markings are very crisp.

Thanks for sharing your new acquisition with us!
It's a nice piece!

And, your photos are pretty good, as well!

The holster is very interesting to me - it's definitely different than any of I seen before and so worn that it's hard to believe the closing strap is placed wrong. The "L Z A" code is for "Mauser-Werke, Karlshule plant" (per The Standard Directory of Proof Marks - Wirnsberger).

It looks so much like my own 1942 holster, but that closing flap isn't right!?
That is exactly how the longer artillery luger holsters are made (LP08).
Also, I've never seen a holster stamp under the belt straps - very odd.

Store you gun in a nice cloth lined pistol case, not the holster!

(in the Technical Information section on this site (left sidebar), you'll find the suffix code charts and a lot of information that may help you understand more about it.)

This is my 1942 P08 holster "DLU" "1942" and an eagle over "WaA 641" (corrected, earlier I said it was 841, my bad)

The "P08" stamp is very faint, but it's in large letters on the back right side.

Also, I found a similar holster to yours, in Bender's "Lugers and Holsters" that was a cut-down LP08 holster (p.198) There are several variations displayed, including conversations to a P-38 holster from a P08.

They used up the parts on hand pretty much as they were produced. Typically first in, first out unless there was some issue that delayed them in process. The production areas tended to be structured as batch processes so parts were somewhat grouped.

There was an overlap of toggles at the beginning of 1941 with the two different concealment codes used in the "o" and "p" blocks. About 5,000 were made with "42" toggles, and 15,000 with "byf" toggles.

Of course, once a part was made it could end up in use on a gun anytime after that.

Marc

I have only seen the LZA stamp on 1918 dated holsters. From the pictures and my old eyes I can not see where a buckle strap was removed. So my guess a converted 1918 artillery holster. Bill

Bill, I don't see what I imagined I saw the other day in terms of buckle strap's former location. Now it looks more like a stain. Wouldn't a pic of the area on the side below the mag pouch show where the stitching for a cleaning rod's longer pouch used to be? Such a pic might solve this. What bugs me is the lack of holes in between the belt loops--shouldn't' there be a square of holes there?

There is nothing better than the introduction of an unusual holster on this forum to get the blood flowing and the opinions flying. :thumbup:

I love it.

I love the last of the Mauser Lugers, byf41 & byf42). I have several. From the limited pictures we have of yours it appears to be in about 70% condition, and if all matching, I think David's estimate for your rig is spot on. Enjoy your new Luger and welcome to the forum. Bill

I just don't see ANY indication that this holster is a converted artillery.

The toggle dusktail print doesn't look all that bad... :rolleyes:

The finish shows wear but doesn't look hammered...

Didn't say it was hammered, only well used. Looks more or less like my BYF. And my BYF has been well used. :rolleyes:

Check also the base of the ears.

found another marking
 

Located a faint set of markings on the inside of the flap. Yes, 1918 is certainly clear. Here are the closeups of the muzzle end too.
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