Someone Claims, This Is A Fake One?
 

Hello Guys. :-)

My name is Peter, and I live in Denmark. Recently, I brought a Luger P08 with one magazine, and all matching numbers, exept for the firing pin :(

The number is 1672, and the name on top of the slide, is ERFURT 1917 - so I guess, it's made in 1917.

I've paid 1000 USD for the gun, and according to the markets here, it's a pretty okay price.

What can you guys tell me? What is the difference between Erfurt, Mauser, DMW, 1936, 42?

Is it possible to find some Erfurt informations on the internet? I cannot seek anything from google :(

Best Regards, Peter Kristensen.

Peter, is the pistol an artillery or P08? If it is an artillery, it is a parts gun as Erfurt only made artilleries in 1914.

peter, lots of information here - you can read the FAQ and see the differences in makers - in the stickies - etc

Ed

If, after studying information here, you still have questions, post a few sharp pictures taken in natural light (shaded outdoors) using a digital camera (not a cellphone) set for taking closeups.

To get you started, here's a link to the current FAQ:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=35479

Answers recording to post. :)
 

Hello Folks!

Thank you, for all the good answers. :)

First of all, I formally have to make clear, that I do not know a sh*t about Lugers.

I wanted to own one, for very long time - but the prices are a little to high for me, so that's why I purchased this one :)

I would very much like to answer all of you, but in the end, you can read the different comments.

1: I don't know, if it's an artillery model - but because of the 1917, I found this group, for WW1's. How can I see, if it's an artillery model, or not?
2: The condition, for me to say, is quite okay. My girlfriend is at her family now, and her camera is much better than mine, so in the morning (sunday, tomorrow) I'll post a few good pics of the gun! :)

search function - an artillery is obvious, and no offense but if you are unsure what is an artillery and whats not, you should read more here ;)

there are many variations - 4 inch - army - police - 6 inch navy - 8 inch artillery - but you need to know what you're looking at.

Buy books.....

Peter, Welcome to the forum.

There is quite a bit to study about Lugers. In fact, we often recommend studying before buying one, but you have done this in reverse...

An LP.08 artillery model (which is the forum you posted in) has a long 8 inch barrel with adjustable tangent sights.

The majority of German military Lugers are P.08 model and have 4 inch barrels and fixed sights.

There are also Lugers made for commercial sale, and a huge number of variations.

If you search the Internet for "Artillery Luger" and look at pictures, you should get an idea of what they are.

Marc

Hello Marc!

Thanks alot! :) Yes, but sometimes, things just don't go, by the book ;)

I can already tell you, that I've made a huge mistake, by putting the gun in this thread - it's definately not that one, with 8 inch barrel ;)

Don, if the pistol functions/ shoots good, you did not really get burned. It seems any decent shooter goes at least 700.00 and up any more.

You can find good photos right here on this web site, see the albums, or search of Lugers on any web browser. Choose "images" instead of "web" for best photos.

The top of the luger where the logo is, we call the Toggle.
The Luger doesn't have a slide like most semi-auto pistols.

Photos are needed to examine your guns for more serial numbers, acceptance marks, and other clues of previous owners. Cell phone photos taken outdoors work well here.

Else, email the photos to someone you know here.

Without photos, it's all a guess based on your limited descriptions.

Welcome - we all want to see what you found !

Welcome to the forum. You will find that there are many true Luger experts on this forum that are more than happy to help you. Once photos are posted, your will receive the info that you request/want.


Do some reading in the FAQ section to help educate yourself a bit about Lugers.

Pictures!
 

Here is the fotos of the gun, guys! :-)

Pictures2
 

I'm sorry - I'm not able to upload Them at one time!

Picture 3
 

Luger Again :-) it has all the matching numbers, including the firing pin :-)

What is your opinion about this handgun? Is it a good or bad deal I've made?

Magazine :-)
 

Wood bottom - matching Numbers, as Well :-)

Is the bluing on the barrel, receiver, and toggle train as shiny as they look in the photos?? If so, then I think this Luger has been refinished. Besides the bluing, some of the parts look to be buffed fairly extensively. Perhaps it is the photos.

Sorry to say "bad deal", very severely over polished and re- blued.
Magazine is re-stamped to match.:crying:

You have already figured out it is not an artillery luger, but the standard 4"-100mm barrel length P 08.

Here it would not be a collectible luger, but what we call a "shooter".

The bad re-blue hurts the value, how much depends on your local market.

Welcome to the board, and next time try to ask before you buy.

Peter,

Take a look there the members gallery, in the left hand column on my computer. These are pictures of some of the better guns out there.
See also the albums.

Don't feel too badly, almost all of us have gotten ;stung; at least once.

FN

Don,

Enjoy and be proud of your 1917 Erfurt P.08 Parabellum. It represents a German Imperial weapon that is almost 100 years old. It has all matching parts and a good representative appearance. It also has the notch on the receiver for the artillery rear sight clearance.

The mentioned shooter price of $700 is representative of mismatched parts Luger usually with a rough pitted exterior. I do not know what are typical prices on Lugers in Denmark so US comparison may not be valid.

IMHO you have made a good purchase for your first Luger. Enjoy it.

Peter

Come on it's your very fist Luger, and it's not that bad at all, use it to learn from about these marvellous pistols.

Kind regards.

Don,
Welcome to the wonderful, complex world of Lugers.
Look at it this way: you have always wanted a Luger you could afford. In addition, because of the condition of the gun, you can shoot it without worrying that you might damage a "collectable" Luger. I think you have achieved your objective.
Could you have found one a little cheaper or in more original condition in Denmark? Perhaps. Only collectors who live there can tell you that.
Congratulations,
John

It is a shooter grade Luger, and that is a good thing for your first Luger(careful, they are addictive). Now just get yourself some std. velocity FMJ ammo, and head to the range. The old Lugers are fun to shoot, and quite accurate to boot. Enjoy!!

My Own Opinion
 

Dear Friends.

Thanks alot for all your comments.

I do not regret, that I purchased this gun - to me - it seems like a very funny example of that gun - and it shoots great. :-)

What About The 75 year jubilee model - does you know this gun? It's made in 1983 i guess

Don,

You'll find Mauser's commemorative models occasionally. My impression is that since they originally sold at extra-high prices back then--I know a man whose father-in-law purchased one in the 80's and it was around $3k at that time--many of them were put away in the box to appreciate in value. I noticed a couple at auction a few weeks ago, and they had attained a level near $5k!

There is nothing particularly special about most of them as far as I know, aside from a special series serial number, which may be a bit different, and the commemorative markings on them. Unless this is your collecting niche, you'll be paying extra for mere cosmetics. Their re-make of the 1902 Cartridge Counter is one that is rare and distinctive, even as a reproduction, and the price one would command reflects this.

I won a M1900/2000 at auction not too long ago, for a nice price. It is one of the stainless steel guns made in Houston, Texas in the 1990s, but with a black finish, a special serial #, and commemorative engraved text. I have shot it a few times, but even though its parts are not numbered to match, they are even more difficult to find than parts for originals, so I avoid pushing its limits...

The Mauser Parabellums that were manufactured in the 1970s are excellent examples of the Luger pistol. All quality fit and function. The finishes are fantastic. These firearms were manufactured with original Swiss Luger tooling and fixtures.

A very fine Parabellum collection can be made with lower cost than the earlier pre 1950 variations.

That is my 2 cents.

Of course I agree with Dick, and I would add that the quality of their steel is probably better than the one used decades before, so I gather they are safer to shoot.

Don't these later pistols use some or many cast parts?
While serviceable, would thye be "better"?

Someone just asked me by PM, and I don't know the answer- as I don't own one of these late Mausers:

Are the typical small parts numbered to match?

No, they are not.

I'm far from being an expert on metallurgy but I've always tought that forged parts are better than cast ones, at the same time I believe that these newish Lugers were made with stronger steels.

Forgings versus castings is a very widely debated issue. Both methods of treating the base metals have positive results if properly applied. Modern steels are made with better alloying elements and more stringent quality control than years past. Many high quality firearms are made today with cast components. IMHO The Mauser Parabellums manufactured during the 1970s are better made than the ones made prior tto 1950. PS. I don't know if the Maurer Parabellums were forgings or castings.

Dick,
I have had the occasion to work on these and they are not made "better", but worse. JMHO.

Modern firearms are also made with "space age" materials, like aluminum and plastic- it does not necessarily make them better; but certainly does make them cheaper to produce and sell.

This is intended to justify my opinion, it is not meant to start an argument.

As collectors of Lugers we appreciate the fit, function and finish of the early hand assembled pistols. Each gun was hand finished and each of the components were uniquely marked for that pistol. The early DWM and Swiss produced Parabellums are beautiful guns but not necessarily interchangeable with other Lugers.

The 1970 Mauser Parabellums were made with high quality steels, modern heat treating and modern manufacturing methods. The quality control of all the components was very efficient. So efficient that the pistol small components did not require marking for that gun. The parts were interchangeable.

The fit and finish of the Mauser Parabellums is made for a commercial market. The finish was of the type that Smith & Wesson used in this time period.

Something I noticed in European gun shops was the prevalence of refinished handguns. Many of these were nicely done with minimal buffing but were priced about the same as guns with original finishes. To some I know, it is natural to refinish "unsightly" signs of wear and they don't understand why I wouldn't consider it.