Help Again Please
 

Hello All
I've been sent some photos of another luger which I may buy if it's ok. As I said in my other post I'm new to lugers and know very little if nothing about them so I'm hoping that once again you wonderful guys out there will help.
I've not seen the pistol myself but I've uploaded some photos I've been sent and would love to have your comments.
The fifth photo shows some damage or blemish around the serial number and Birmingham Proof mark on the side of the gun. Any ideas what that may be?
I live in the UK, and the price of the gun is about equivalent to your 1370 dollars.
many thanks
John

Prices in the US of A and in the UK are not really comparable l'm afraid. Anyways, that pistol as all the looks of post war Deutsch Volkspolizei (vopo for short) use.

The finish appears to have received moderate to heavy buffing and has been re-blued as evidenced by bluing over pitting. The grips are not original and appear to be Vopo (East German).

The other key questions I'd have in trying to evaluate the pistol would be markings/condition of the magazine, bore condition, and which parts do/do not match.

The re-blue, buffing and damage around the receiver serial number relegate it to "shooter" status. Here in the USA its value would be not more than $900 USD and very possibly less depending on the answers to the questions mentioned.

At that price I would avoid it. Bill

Thanks to kurusu, 4 scale, and wlyon. Thanks all for your replies. I won't bother with buying it as I thought it was a ww2 piece and now find it isn't. Also as wlyon suggests, the price is too high.
Many thanks again guys.
John

I think a misunderstanding is afoot, John. It is a byf--code for Mauser--made in 1942, and certainly qualifies as a WWII weapon. Its post-war life happened East of the iron curtain, with the folks' police. There were plenty of pre-WWI Lugers that survived not only the Great War, but the Wiemar period, and WWII, and are now called VoPo as well. Not a reference to era of manufacture, rather, to a particular fate. The VoPo pistols were liquidated by their former Soviet allies, and many wound up in the U.S. Their resume' affords them their own niche in the realm of collecting, albeit limited due to the sometimes harsh treatment when re-worked post-war.

Bill is just saying it is too expensive for one in this condition, in this category. Greg points out buffing and re-bluing, which unless expertly and carefully done, punches holes in what might have been its value!

Thanks for explaining that Ithacaartist. But as you and Greg say with the rebluing etc. and the comments on the price, irrespective of it being wwii, I think I'll leave it.
Once again thank you for the education. I would be lost without all your expertise out there.
Best wishes from the UK
John

John

I'm in my sixties, and my experience says that guns bought without knowing what you're getting will probably represent expensive mistakes.
Why don't you read and insruct yourself a bit before you start searching for a nice Luger?
There are plenty of books available in your Country, then the Net is full of precious info too, for instance apart our section of FAQ that I would advise you to read over and over, we've got an old friend here (cirelaw) that with the patience of a carthusian has been posting interesting threads mainly on Luger pistols practically every single day.
Do what you want but if you're really fashinated by this marvellous gun there is simply an awful lot to learn.
Just my two bob.

Cheers.

Thanks for those wise words Sergio, I'll do as you suggest.
John

That ain't blueing over pitting. That's blueing over the heat damage done to the gun when the chamber was carelessly welded shut under the UKs brutal "Deactivation" program. In this case, with no regard to the pistols outer looks.

Within the confines of the UK laws, at least find an example that was treated with respect upon deactivation.

I agree with Doug, and I'd like to add that to me, deactivating a firearm is a form of disrespect towards the firearm itself, but unfortunately that's the way the cookie crumble in Britain.

Here, here Sergio.

Sorry ment to say here here to luger parabellum.
From a week today, 8/4/16, new laws come into effect here where for instance all pistols sold after that date have to have their magazines welded in place. Obviously this means that you won't be able to **** or dry fire the weapon. The barrel will still be closed by inserting a metal rod as always.
I believe with machine guns etc. the intention is to cut the barrel in half and then weld the two pieces together!

A small misunderstanding, I think. I based my "re-blue over pitting" comment on the views of the right side of the gun; forward of the toggle knob and scattered over the frame there seems to be re-blue over light pitting. I don't doubt you are correct as to the heat damage. And I appreciate the learning offered by your comment; I was puzzled by and did not comment on what caused the damage around the serial # (I assume that is what you were referring to). I share the disgust at a lovely and historic pistol being crudely defaced.

I have an example that is re-blued over light pitting and this gun is very similar in appearance.

Welding the mag in place will also make it impossible to even field strip the pistol; it will be a true paperweight. From next week on, it might be more satisfying for British collectors to collect pictures of nice-looking or rare firearms. :-(

We ALL know that this added mutilation of handguns in the UK will STOP all gun violence there!! ;)

Quite right ithacaartist, the gun will be even more useless than it is now. Also the new deactivation is retrospective, so any deactivated gun today that is sold after the 8th. will have to go through this further mutilation.
Rhuff, I couldn't agree more. I don't think any criminal is going to try and reactivate a gun when they can buy a new ak45 on the black market for a few hundred.
The police are even trying to get the government to plug the barrels of antique flintlocks that currently do not need any sort of deactivation.

Those news are alarming. Governments really want (under false pretenses I might add) turn their subjects into lambs for slaughter.

And it's global. No one is really safe. Stay sharp.

Does this law cover existing pistols, or new pistols appearing on the collector circuit?

More precisely, if I have a "pre welded magazine" pistol and then decide to sell it, will the pistol need to have its magazine welded upon changing hands,(a "new" sale), or will this law create a "two tier" pistol market, (i.e. pre welded versus post welded pistols), as happened with the machinegun market here in the US?

Hi Alanint
As it stands prior to the 8th April 2016, the deactivation process does not involve welding the magazine. The pistol can be cocked, magazine can be removed and the gun dry fired.
After April 8th. the magazine will be welded in situ, if there is no magazine in the gun a steel bar will be welded in its place. The gun will then be unable to dry fire etc.
This apples to any gun sold after this date, even if it had gone under a deactivation process prior to the 8th.
Once a gun is sold after the 8th. the welding takes place, but if the gun is then sold again there is no need to have it redone, because the welding process needs only to be done once.
If you don't sell the gun after the 8th. there is no need to have it welded it's legal for you to keep it in a pre 8th. April state.
Hope this explains it.
Cheers
John

So the idea is to slowly completely destroy the pistols out there, as sooner or later everything changes hands.

Are there provisions to avoid this in the case of an inheritance?

If one had a Luger that had already undergone the first mutalation, and was going to have to have the mag welded into the frame, one could remove the mag follower and spring before the welding, and still be able to dry fire it......but not field strip it. What a shame!! :(

It doesn't look like it. The act states any guns that are "sold, battered or given away" after April 8th must have the new deactivation.

This is getting ridiculous. I think your government must hate all of us collectors. This mutilation trend sure tends to discourage collecting, buying & selling. At what point does a pistol become unrecognizable to its original form?

Are the Bobbies really afraid of someone robbing a bank with a flintlock? Or is it just irrational fear of anything that goes bang!

- Geo

Honestly reading the posts of this thread hurts me...
I can only hope that it won't be like that also in the rest of Europe...

I realize that from the States these words will sound strange, to say he least, but in my opnion the years we are living now remind me of the collapse of the Ancient Roman Empire, when the Romans slowly became more and more softened and allowed people coming from outside the Empire (uncivilized barbarians) to take key places in their society, in their Army and so on.
Now day by day we are slowly getting invaded by people from North Africa and Middle East with a culture that is clashing agains ours, and while our European leaders discuss about nonsensical things like the correct size the cucumbers shoud have (I'm not joking), or like banning the ownership of guns to honest people and so on these barbarians a day not too far away will tell us what do do, what to wear, what to eat, what to pray... :grr:

Sergio:
I can assure you that your concerns are shared throughout the USA. Maybe not with the strength that they deserve, but we too see, and share, your foreboding. To me it is not a question of IF something happens to cause this house of cards to fall, but WHEN.
dju