Help Please
 

hello Everyone
I'm new to the forum and know nothing about lugers, just that I like the look of them.
I intend to buy one and wondered if you knowledgeable guys could cast an eye over my pictures and let me know what you think?
Is the serial number correct for the model or should it have a letter suffix?
Any comments would be gratefully received.
thanks
John

The letter suffix is under the numbers on the front of the frame. "A"?
I can't comment on whether the numbers are correct for the date, but nothing scares me on the gun, if priced accordingly for its condition. I'm curious what the others say the stamping is on the left side ahead of the number.
What is the asking price?
dju

Hi dju
Thanks for your reply. The asking price is £750.
John

That's Pounds Sterling??? Is it deactivated??? :confused:

Looks to be a 1936 Mauser made S/42. Just before Mauser reinstated the hump.

Yes, pounds sterling and deactivated.

Me, too. Looks like something for the FAQ. :thumbup:

Crossed swords, w/D & A over 15???

John,

Welcome to the Forum.

This appears to be a well worn, but overtly honest 1936 Model P.08, the standard issue of the day to the German Armed Forces.

The letter suffix is a "k' indicating it was made in Spring 1936 at the Mauser Factory in Oberndorf am Neckar.

Somewhere along the way, it was proofed in the UK. The crossed swords and letters and initials indicate the Birmingham Proof House.

More, I cannot say.

Hope this helps,

John

Thanks for your reply John.
The Birmingham proof marks make sense, because I live in the UK and the gun is on sale here, having been deactivated in the uk.
Cheers
John

I'll venture Birmingham, D(e)A(ctivated) in 2015.

I am glad there are others on the forum; I was thinking, that marking on the left side looks familiar, but I was going down the wrong path!


Ed

I wonder if that stamping isn't a specific deactivation mark? If it were from a British proof house surely there would be a lot more stuff stamped here, there, and everywhere.
Flintlock, we heard talk recently that the EU was cracking down on deactivated guns too. Anything to that?
dju

Hi Dju
From what I know when a weapon is deactivated in uk it only has the one stamp of the proof house that actually did the job. If a gun is proofed in the uk there are a lot more marks.
On 8th. April this year, new deactivation rules come into force for every EU country. For pistols for example, it involves permanently fixing magazines in place and deactivating them. The new rules will be applied retrospectively, so any gun deactivated before 8th April but bought after that date will have to re-deactivated to comply with the new rules.
John

There is also a problem in Eastern Europe with inadequate deactivation of guns. These minimally deactivated guns are sold without any of the traditional controls associated with usable firearms. Then, with the simple replacement of a barrel or other component, they can be restored to fully usable firearms.

I'm not a fan of deactivation, but if you're going to do it you should do it in such a was as to not allow them to easily be re-activated by criminals.

Vlim recently shared this report on the issue...

Apart all that has been said, I'd like to hear other people's opinions on the date 1936 on the chamber... :nono:

Sergio,

Good catch!! Never paid attention to it. Certainly did not leave the factory that way.

Mea Culpa!!

John

hi Sergio and John
Thanks for your comments about the date. As I said earlierI know nothing about Lugers so would you be able to explain your doubts so that I might learn.
Thanks again
John

John,

This is one of those difficult situations where there is no substitute for having the gun in hand.

First, a word about markings.

Dates were rollmarked onto the chamber of the receiver. This process involved holding the piece firmly in a jig, and heavily rolling a die, shaped like a wheel across the surface thus impressing what was on the die into the metal. Hence rollmarking. This technique is used when the same mark must be impressed on many, many pieces; like the 100,000 or so Model P.08s Mauser would make in a year. Or the 10,000 suffixes in a block

This contrasts with proof marks and serial numbers which were stamped with a die and a hammer. Hence each piece is individually stamped.

Both hand stamping and rollmarking leave ridged edges and squarish corners. Neither removes metal; it displaces it.

Alternatively you can use a rotary cutter and a pantograph to cut metal letters and numbers into the metal. And..since the tool is a rotary tool, it leaves curved corners. And metal is actually removed, not just displaced.

Now, first the good news. The location and style of numbers on your pistol look correct. The chamber date in 1936 used slightly different fonts than 1937 and subsequent years. Later years were less squarish. This is why no red flags showed up for me the first time around.

But, and this is a big but; the numbers look deep, and with magnification of your photo, the edges look a little off. Now.. it could just be the photo. But, you should take a good look at the chamber date especially taking note, seeking rounded corners. And, a square bottom, as the rotary tool had a square bottom whereas dies are slightly tapered and the depth of the number is slightly wedged shaped.

This might indicate that the date was freshened up.

That's about it. You may wish to browse the site searching for "1936 chamber marks". Or simply 1936. There should be chamber photos on the site.

Or, alternatively, go to this site and you will see numerous examples of Lugers and their markings. Search the section entitled Mauser.

http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=179

Hope it helps.

John

Many many thanks John. I would guess that would devalue the gun quite a lot?
Glad I haven't bought it.
John

Here are a couple of photos of my 1936 shooter, both the same gun:

Thanks again, dju. The gun I was considering looks nothing like that!

To all you wonderful, knowledgeable, intelligent people out there that took the time to answer my message and help immensely, I offer you my heartfelt and humble thanks.
Pleae, each and every one of you, pat yourselves on the back from me.
Thanks guys
John

John,

Not necessarily. It has limited collection value because it has been deactivated. But again, deactivation is the norm in the UK.

But don't write it off. It still is a 1936 model P.08.

And, without the gun in hand, my comments are solely based on a photo. The possibility always exist that the date stamp is unmolested. Only a hands on inspection would confirm or not.

And, frankly, I am still struggling to understand why someone would take time to refresh a date while the rest of the gun appears to be in its original state. Some damage there??

Again, one must have the gun in hand to declare anything as definitive.

Sorry not be be of help here.

John

Thanks John, I won't take it off the list yet.
John

As far as the Birmingham proof mark “D A” stands for “DeActivaded”, while the figures shows the year of deactivation, so I guess it was deactivated last year.

Best.

Yahoo shows that to be $1068 USD. Seems kind of high for a deactivated Luger. Might be average in the UK though.

I notice the breechblock also has the deactivation stamp. Are any other areas stamped with the D-A/15???

Surely I wouldn't pay that much only for a paperweight!
Still that's the way the cookies crumble in the UK, let's keep our fingers crossed that the anti-gun craze won't spread all over the world or we'll be screwed!

Hi Sergio
The price is about right for the uk.
We have a television programme over here called "Rip Off Britain". That sums up the uk.
Any houses for sale near you, I'd consider emigrating!
Cheers
John

Hi Sheepherder
The price is about right for the uk!
Can't see any more deact marks. Why they need two though I don't know. Perhaps it's to spoil the gun even more.
UK gun laws are crazy.
John

IMHO, I think the only difference between the Date stamp on the subject gun and the example shown by DJU is that the latter is filled with some white material to make it show up in photos better... I think the date stamp is legitimate...

Just my $0.02 (or 2 pence as the case may be).

Thanks John S it's back on top of the list!
Cheers
John

I think it is somewhat odd that the 1936 is straight-lined where the 1937 is all curved-lined...

Here's another example of a 1936 receiver date:

As mentioned previously, the chamber date font in 1936, i.e. the first year Mauser put dates on a P.08, the numbers were more angular; that is squared off.

In 1937 and subsequent years, the fonts were more curved.

Maybe it had to do with designing a roll die that would work well on a curved surface. Or perhaps the curved numbers caused less wear.

But, in any case, that's the way it was.

John

Hey! You got Olle's Luger!!! :soapbox:

Maybe the 1936 was engraved, not stamped???

Yes - I enjoyed Olle's post about his P.08 Luger serial number that ends in "08".

Mine is in the middle of the "i" block. This was the first year to actually have the year number engraved on the chamber... Were the "G" and "K" stamped or engraved?

Marc

Pic is small, but looks stamped...Nice squared corners... :)

Here's another 1936 from Jan's forum...

Stamped.

'Search' here won't allow single-letter searches; I know there are some excellent pics of both K and G chamber dates [and S as well] but I can't find them... :(

I like the Gothic G best... :)

Once again, thanks everybody for your contributions.
I think I'll buy it!
Cheers
John