2 Date WW1 Erfurt Luger Help
 

OK, just bought this and no doubt grossly overpaid ($1100.00) BUT I wanted one and they are getting harder to find at shows and auctions.:o Has some extraction problems, spent casing goes square against next round in chamber. Conical Winchester factory ammo, will soon try others. I'm thinking maybe stretch the extractor spring a fraction? On the plus side the pin hits the primer with authority.
2 aftermarket magazines, and one grip is non matching.... everything else seems to be # original. Bore is fair, bluing speaks for itself and I know it's OFTEN asked but dumb it down for me.... why the 1916/1920???
Thanks in advance!

you're right, the question is asked a lot on the 1916 / 1920 - the answer is in the FAQ - I can write more later if you can't find it

Welcome to the forum

Tried............ getting gibberish (to me) about subscriptions?:confused:

Welcome to the forum. Your takedown lever is an East German replacement and not original to the pistol. There may be issues with the magazines or magazine catch, as it sounds from what you described as the magazines sitting a hair too low in the frame. I would order an entire spring set for your pistol and try again.

Gotcha and I do appreciate the help! The 2 sets of numbers in question does NOT mean this was used for police use? Could it have been used in WW2 since it has some comblock after market parts?

The 1916 date is the military date the Luger was accepted into service. 1920 is simply an acknowledgement that this weapon belonged to the government on that date, after the war when many guns were kept by private individuals. I hope George will provide a better answer on this question

what?
top line
USER CP - ALL ALBUMS FAQ

http://forum.lugerforum.com/faq.php


>>>>>>>>> http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121

Odds are that it was reissued to the police shortly after WWI. If so, it probably was issued to one of the barracked Bereitschaftspolizei units, did not receive a sear or mag safety and was transferred to the military in 1935-36. Pure speculation, however.

Trying to stretch the extractor spring MAY help for a very short time, but will not be lasting. The extractor spring is quite small, but very important for normal functioning. It should be replaced, and while there, clean out the extractor channel(they get pretty nasty) and check the "business" end of the extractor to be sure that one "ear" has not broken off(very common).

Best place to order a quality extractor spring? Doubtful I want a used or knockoff .......... can OEM types still be had?
Thanks all for your help!

Hi, and welcome to tjhe forum.

From your pictures, it looks like the receiver may not be going completely into battery.

The small gap shown at your toggle train's breech face is not normal.

This could relate to the fitting of a replacement takedown lever. When in battery, the receiver looks like it may be proud to the frame...

If you're not experienced with these mechanisms, consider getting it to a good Luger experienced gunsmith that can check and fit it properly.

You paid about the going price for a good properly functioning shooter Luger.

(on background, I've never seen one of our members here respond to an inquiry with gibberish... There are some questions that regularly come up, and that's why we've assembled responses into our FAQ - so that we don't have to keep repeating explanations...)

Marc

I agree that the barrelled receiver is going too far forward for the breech block with extractor to seat properly. I do have new repro locking bolts in stock @$50 as well as new or used original extractor springs in stock. TH

While you are working on the piece, you may want to consider replacing all the coil springs.
Wolf Gun Springs sells a "kit" with extractor, main, and striker springs. Check for them on line or
get the equivalent from Lugerdoc.

Looks like your TD lever is an East German unit- may explain the problem- it that is it.

No, didn't mean to sound like member was responding in gibberish........ the link result that came back to me was gibberish! My fault no doubt not knowing the software. Cut me some slack, I'm older than most and gave up after DOS. :thumbup:

The East German levers are typically bad or not very well fitting? Can I conceivably file mine into workable order before I buy one here from someone that offered to sell me one? Is this the same part as some call "locking bolt"? My 7th pic down under the SN.

No, with regard to EG levers.
Yes, TD lever = locking bolt.
Looks like your problem can't be solved by a file, the receiver is too far forward already.
A new lever may not fix it either, the lug on the bottom of the receiver may have been filed on-
though I have no idea why! Or the front of the frame could have been shortened, but does not look like it.

You really need another to compare it with, IMO.

Good info, it DOES fire and cycle "half" the time as advertised. That's what makes me think it's a ejector spring problem. >maybe< Compared to most other guns I own or have shot... very light trigger pull, this I like. :)

Springs are cheap, won't hurt to change one or all.

The very first thing that I'd attend to would be getting ithat upper into proper position when it's in battery. Starting out from the right place is a good thing, and may improve ejection. Since Lugers are machines with inter-relating balances--ammo, recoil spring, mag spring, and all the different weights of the components that go whanging around when it's fired-- I would not dismiss the possibility out-of-hand. If your lug is deficient, a weld to replace the errant material would be a simple matter. It might not hurt to remove the locking bolt for examination/comparison with a standard one.

Seems more likely that a mashed or out of spec. locking lever is more likely the culprit than worn lugs. You just need to land a spec. Erfurt or DWM lever for comparison. If that fails you may be able to send it to the Lugerdoc and let him swap some parts.
dju

Older than most? from your avatar, I would guess you are in your mid to late 60's? ...about my age (68). I started with an Apple ][ computer and my first IBM compatible had only a single floppy drive and no hard disk. It used MS-DOS 1.0 !

To sharpen your mind all you have to do is keep it in practical use. Collecting or learning about Lugers will definitely help with that... :D

Please try to take some photos of your pistol in natural light on an overcast day and without a flash. We can tell you more about your Luger if we can see clear, in-focus photos that show all markings and stamps. Please also include a photo of the front of the frame below the barrel. This is where the actual serial number should be... 4 digits with a cursive script letter underneath the number.

Welcome to the Lugerforum.

I can't imagine either area wearing much, either. I should have said "messed with". Given the unorthodox outward appearance of the lever, it may well be the "deficient", offending part. A shout out to Lugerdoc will get you on your way!

Thanks for the welcome, yes we're close..... I started with a Tandy EX... single floppy at 1200 baud, aded external HD and became an expert on Alleycat and pong. BBSing was a lot of fun or so I thought. I really thought I was jamming when I got a XT clone and 2400, LIGHTSPEED! :roflmao: Many think my avatar is some kind of pirate or boatyard logo, oh well, I can still eat, sleep and waste time at the North York Co range. :)
Anyway, took gun semi apart and did stretch out extractor spring a bit.... no soap, same thing. I DID discover with no pin in it it does go home all the way as advertised BUT when I align and put the axle back in it draws the slide back maybe 1/16th of an inch or less, just not enough for the extractor to grab except maybe the last round. :crying: Therefore............ beats the **** out of me. Nothing "looks" bent or in backwards that I can see. Really at a loss and knowing I probably overpaid to begin with..... :soapbox: local gunshop somewhere or swap it off at the next gunshow.......... I dunno.
Barrel aligns perfectly with factory line and numbers match. Damn!!! Best guess... never been separated.

Try this. Separate the top assembly from the lower.

CAUTION: It is very important that you NEVER put a live round in the chamber when the top assembly is separated from the frame because a Luger can be discharged by pressing inward on the front of the sear bar.

With an empty fired case in the chamber watch as you close the toggle slowly on the empty case manually and all should work smoothly with the extractor snapping over the case rim as the toggle closes. This should happen every time. If it doesn't, then the problem is definitely with the upper assembly.

My recommendations:

Clean the toggle inside and out with a good gun solvent and a stiff toothbrush. Clean all the components including the firing pin, the sear, and the bottom of the firing pin channel and make sure they are clean and lubricated. The entire assembly should work as smoothly as a clock mechanism. While the extractor is removed, make sure the extractor spring hole is very clean and there are no kinks in the spring.

Gently polish both sides of the extractor with very fine emery cloth or paper (400 grit or higher) and then carefully clean the grit off the part and lubricate it. Reinsert the extractor in the breechblock without the spring. It should move very smoothly up and down in its channel. If not, keep polishing until it does.

Once the part is moving correctly, then reassemble with the spring and test the assembly once again with the fired case in the chamber. All should work smoothly. Once it does, then reassemble the gun and do the same test with the fired case. Once again, the extractor should snap over the case rim every time. If it does not, then we have to determine where the obstruction is occurring and remove it.

Please post photos of your breechblock and extractor from multiple angles so I can see if there is any damage that might not be apparent to an untrained eye... I would also include multiple photos of your takedown lever individually as well as mounted in the frame.

I can't see that this "problem" will be that difficult to solve to make your Luger a reliable shooter.

Allow me to be a PITA again on this thing. Does anyone have the exact dimensions of center to center holes of the REAR TOGGLE LINK and FORWARD toggle link and finally end to end of the breechblock. That 16th or so of an inch has to be there somewhere I think. Maybe a 7.65 part in a 9mm?????

How about a competent honest gunsmith in the York Pa. area?

Thanks in advance!

If the test described above by John S, show that the top half is OK, consider the S shaped connecting link attached to the rear toggle link, may be bent or a short one for the M1900 luger. TH

7,65 and 9mm parts are interchangeable, well except for the barrel.

I'm not sure what the "real" toggle link is, but if you have original made parts, the 1/16" is Not in the toggle parts. And no, I've never measured the lengths you mention- never needed to.

But,
I'm not convinced the toggle is not in place, the gap may be just a shadow, in another picture it looks fine.

Anyway,
the toggle has nothing to do with the alignment of the receiver to the frame. Three things that do affect this are:

Length of frame- yours could be a long frame cut down, or a short frame faced off for a new number- Possible with yours

In fact almost certainly your problem, the front of the frame is very close to the axle of the take down lever, indicating facing off of the front of the frame; the good news is that the pistol will function with this short frame- just won't look right.

Take down lever/bolt - rear face damaged or fit poorly allowing receiver to come too far forward, again Possible.

Length of the receiver- could be a long receiver , shortened but not enough- Not likely on your pistol, as it is marked with the Erfurt proof/acceptance and 1914 date, so it is a short receiver.

With only one luger in your possession, I'm not sure you can figure this out- or if you do - be able to fix it.

I suggest you send it to lugerdoc for evaluation.

Otherwise probably too late to return it to the seller , if not- I would; and at least complain about the condition.

I didn't see this thread before...You made my day! Always start the day with a good laugh! :D :thumbup:

Now...I've not only SEEN members here respond with gibberish...I'VE responded with gibberish!!! :roflmao:

I've also woken up early on a Sunday morning and read posts here that would make a longshoreman blush...Those get reported immediately... :grr:

Oops, typo............... "rear" and you're right, this is way over my head. Gunsmith or take a hit on trade. :o