K Date Luger & Holster
 

I've recently posted some pics of a K Date Luger and Holster; any info you can provide would be greatly appreciated. I know just about enough to be dangerous... The magazine base is marked with a matching serial #, but is obviously of the wrong type to be original.

Please paste a link to that thread.
dju

His album - I assume this is the one he is talking about...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/album.php?albumid=493
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Apologies; the pics were all posted in the Albums as Ed found above - I thought I'd put in some pics but they didn't come thru for some reason. Thanks Ed!!

I specialize in collecting K Date Lugers.I will be glad to discuss yours with you.
Please email your phone number and I will give you a call.
Spartacus38@charter.net
Bob

Overall it looks like a nice gun. The side plate appears to be un-numbered, and the extractor is a replacement part too.
What were you wanting to know?
dju

Appreciate the input; Bob, I'll e mail you separately & look fwd to learning from your expertise. DJU, how can you tell the extractor is a replacement? Generally, I'm looking for any details or information on the weapon; I collect mil weapons and have several - but only the one Luger and like I said, the details are so minute and many that I know just enough to be a novice...

I'm basing that on a sort of sloppy fit, AND because it is not numbered.
dju

:soapbox:
This is not the purpose of this forum - its supposed to be that everyone can learn.

SHARING of information helps out many folks, not just one.

Several times a month, I will receive an email asking for a private evaluation - I tell them, thats what the forum is for

To Motown,
DavidJayUden has covered the main points about the K date plus the mag is not a K date mag
and the holster has a stick wing eagle proof which came after the 1934 date.Also the serial # on the bottom of the barrel should have Halos.
Hope this helps.
Bob

Bob (spartacus38),

Do you have a list of K dates that you could share with us? If this is your mission, would you like do build your list?

Hi Dick,I do not have a list of K dates.
I did post a list of known 1914 DWM Artillery Lugers.
Bob

Ed

It's amazing, this morning as I was reading the posts of this thread I was exactly thinking the same thing!

I looks like a humped frame that stated in 1937?

Most, but not all, K dates have humped frames. This feature was dropped by Mauser in 1935 (G dates) and then reintroduced in mid 1937.
Norm

CJS57
Perhaps I've not really understood your question, but FWIK the so called "Mauser hump" can be found mainly on early K Lugers and some Lugers with hump can be found among the K production.
Later on, "G" dated ones hardly had the hump, but towards the end of 1937 if I'm not wrong, the hump became quite common in Mauser production.
Just to complicate the life of nowadays collectors S/42 made in 1937 have several variations, among them there was a last strawed variation with the hump while later still Mauser produced only blued Lugers all of them with the hump.
But basically nothing is ever written in stone, I enclose a picture of my strawed "K" Luger wihout the hump...

:soapbox:

To be clear, the "hump" is not the addition of metal at the rear of the receiver.

The presence of the "hump" is actually the result of an additional milling procedure which removed metal below the area of the rear toggle hinge.

After the early 1937 engineering change, new receivers all had the "hump". It is, of course, possible that older receivers were used out of manufacturing sequence...

I wonder why Mauser stopped milling away the area from 1935 until 1937? It was certainly a reduction of labor and time to manufacture...

Marc

I wonder why they ever started,and again why it was resumed?
As you say, extra and seemingly un-necessary work.:confused:

This may help answer the question. All had to do with the retaining the rear axle pin..

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=35248

John

In my opinions MAUSER early Luger production was somehow unsettled, and some decision I would say unclear, anyway I can only assume that the fisrt "K" Lugers were among the first guns made during the German rearmament, so it's possible that they were still experimenting.
But I'm not an expert on German Lugers, so I hope the real experts will soon chime in.

Regards.

To what purpose was this machining done? Surely not to save whatever weight might be accomplished.
So it must have been structural strength?

No, it had to do with keeping the rear axle pin in place. At full recoil it was exposed and could displace thus jamming the toggle train.

See the link in post 19 for details. They were responding to a Reichsministarium order dated 6/16/1930

John

Thanks for your post, ED.....and the highliting of it. Couldn't agree more. Let's keep the info on the Forum for all of us.

OK,lots of info here. I have two parts unnumbered - what does that do to value? Estimated value?

On the holster - interesting comment on the stick eagle; does that make it a fake...?

OK,lots of info here. I have two parts unnumbered - what does that do to value? Estimated value?

On the holster - interesting comment on the stick eagle; does that make it a fake...?

On the gun, 2 mismatched parts hurts. A mismatched side plate is the biggest problem. Now on DWM's you could probably find a correct numbered sideplate and install it; not as original but to give the appearance as matching. The later Mausers actually had a partial number, but 1# off, on the inside, so coincidental replacement is practically impossible. But I don't know if that is true on the K date guns. As per value, that is a rare year so a mismatched sideplate doesn't hurt it quite so bad, maybe $200-$400, but that is a WAG.
K date guys can help you far more on this one, as can the holster guys.
Nice gun, regardless.
dju

Leon, and the holster has a stick wing eagle proof which came after the 1934 date. As Bob indicates..this is true but it also has the correct WaA94 downswept Eagle that IS correct for 1934. The stick wing eagle M beneath it WAS applied later by the Nazi Navy when the holster was put into Navy inventory/service. I am no expert on Nazi Navy holster markings but the placement and the look of this one looks good to me. I only saw the one photo so cannot comment further about your holster. IF it's all as it should be and it looks like it..the holster is a valuable one.

Motown;
Assuming everything else is correct with your K date,I would estimate its value to be $1500.
Bob

Great, very much appreciated. If it would help, I can post more pictures of the holster - also, always looking for 'stuff' to go with the gun and holster - take down tool & or a cleaning rod (both of which have slots inside the flap of the holster). Any recommendations to store and maintain the holster - the only part that seems to be dryer than the rest is the takedown tool 'holder' inside. the leather has shrunk around the stud there.

Any harm in shooting the pistol? All matching obviously makes it far more valuable than 1500 - and a risk of breaking an extractor a far more costly thing...?

You have two mismatched parts already, a third won't do any more harm, JMHO.

I'd shoot it.:thumbup:

IF you are really stressed, change out the matching extractor for
a replacement and fire away.

Store your holster inside in a climate controlled environment.
Some leather conditioner like Black Rock would be good, on the outside, finished part of the leather only. Be aware everyone will have their own opinion on what to do to leather or not.:eek:

Since the extractor doesn't match you don't have to change it.
Suggest you use Winchester 115 gr FMJ in white box.
Bob

I agree with Don, since you already have a shooter then shoot it; just stay away from heavy loads.

Have fun and shoot safe!