Help on Buying 1st Luger (cont.)
 

Last week, I made a post on here with some questions that I had about a few different Lugers that I was looking at purchasing at an auction. The pictures that I had weren't of the best quality, but I was able to go and get a better look and take some higher quality pictures. As I mentioned in the original post, I'm a novice when it comes to Lugers, but I'm making strides to learn as much as I can.

I guess that my main questions with these are what kind are they and how much they are worth. My main reason in purchasing one is to add to my WWII collection.

Here's the first one:

A look at the first Luger from the top:

Here's a look at Luger #2:

And here's a few shots of a holster that was with Luger #2. I hope that I'm not overdoing it here. Just want to be through :)

Really appreciate the feedback!

Also, if it's not against any forum rules, there were a few other pistols (a Browning Hi-Power and a Wather PP22) that I wouldn't mind having some advice on :)

James..#1 is a WW2 pistol. A lot depends on why you want a Luger..to shoot or collect? #1 is not a collector pistol due to condition. $6-700 IMO.

#2 has possibilities. The holster is nice. #2 doesn't have a date on the chamber? The tag says 9MM it appears to have an Imperial Navy magazine..$300+ IF it's a commercial 9MM it and the holster would be worth going after, Is it a 4 digit serial or 5?
What are they asking for each?

They are being sold at an auction. The main reason that I'm wanting one is to collect, but I wouldn't mind taking a few shots with it. I actually mind having one that kind of has the "been there" look to it.

On #2, I didn't see any markings anywhere (although I could have missed it). There's also an artillery barrel there that has 1918 marked on it.

James..Buying a Luger at an auction puts you at somewhat of a disadvantage. Unless you can closely inspect the pistol beforehand. That means taking it apart. To arrive at any determination of accurate value,you have to make sure all the parts match and you want to look at the bore condition. If you are not able to do this..you are buying the proverbial "pig in a poke" You could pay top dollar and find out the numbers are a mismatch or even that parts are missing! It's a risk.

#1 is a common gun in bad condition. Unless it goes at auction for $600-700 max..

#2 IF it checks out alright..could be a sleeper. The holster is worth $250-350, the Navy mag worth $3-350 depending..IF the pistol is what I think it might be..Could be a bargain at $2K for pistol, mag and holster. You just won't know till you inspect it.

There's also an artillery barrel there that has 1918 marked on it. INTERESTING!

I just realized that you might have been asking for a serial number on the holster and not the gun. It's hard for me to tell. I want to say 4. Here's a blown up pic of the marking inside the holster.

.....and since you said "interesting" in all caps, I figured that I should include a few pics of the artillery barrel as well (although the quality isn't that great). Thoughts on this?

James, I just realized that you might have been asking for a serial number on the holster and not the gun. No..there will be NO serial of any kind on this holster. The pistol serial number is important..a 5 digit is indicative of a commercial and a commercial in 9MM is good. Most are in .30 Luger.

The holster has the clothing depot marking..BAXI. The back has a Crown Roman numeral Bavarian 1st Corps.

The Artillery upper is worth bidding on depending on the bore..steal it for $5-600 still a bargain at $800 but any higher and you are going beyond what it will return. I have seen complete Artillery shooters going for $1200-1500 lately. But say you end up with #2 and the Artillery top..the Artillery will go onto #2 to change up as a complete Artillery shooter. 2 Guns in one so to speak!

Gotcha. I'll look tomorrow when I go back. Appreciate the info and feedback. I'm just trying to soak in as much info as possible right now.

The artillery barrel is actually a complete Erfurt top end, one that you can possibly slip right on another Luger for a way-neat shooter. I'll guess $600+ on that alone.
I'd dig just a bit deeper than Jerry on the #1 gun if it is matching. A good shooter to be sure and matching helps.
#2 is an interesting rig, and a closer hands on inspection would be nice.
What specific questions do you have that haven't been answered?
dju

With Luger #2, are there any guesses as to what it is or what era it might be from? I guess that the fact that it had no markings on it had me shying away (again, novice here) but you all seem to be more drawn to that one.

To be honest, I don't think that auction company even knows what they have. They described Luger #1 as a 41 byf black widow with matching numbers and #2 as a possible "build up". They did say that there was a "1" on the inside of one grip when it was disassembled and cleaned. To be fair, the guy running the auction admits that he doesn't know much about guns and just goes off of the opinions of others.

Are there any red flags that I should be looking for on #2?

Again, I really do appreciate you guys taking the time to walk through some of this stuff with me.

Regarding the era of #2, DWM made these guns into the early '30's, maybe 1933, so that is the upper end.
I'm a bit uncomfortable with these no-numbers guns. Lots of explanations out there but I'd better leave that to others. But even if it is a sneak gun, or special contract, I'd not get too spendy on it as I doubt that it makes it worth a whole lot more. The magazine and holster helps.
It is amazing how uninformed sellers can be especially if it means hooking a big fish, so be careful and assume he knows more than he's letting on.
dju

Sorry,
but the artillery upper is not a "complete Erfurt".
Erfurt didn't make artillerys in 1918, so it is either an Erfurt toggle in a DWM bbl/receiver; or someone screwed an artillery barrel into a 1918 Erfurt receiver.

If we had a picture of the proof and markings on the left chamber we could tell if it is an Erfurt or DWM receiver.

It really doesn't matter though, it would make a shooter artillery if combined with either of those lowers, or another in the future.:thumbup:

James,
your missing one of the "money shots" on a luger in each of these- a picture of the front of the frame showing the frame serial number.\
Would be good to take if you want to show and tell or ask in future.

Good job on what you did take though!

Thanks Don, you are absolutely right about the "1918 Erfurt artillery top end". It must have been past my bed-time.
dju

James,

As you can see, there can be quite a bit to learn before buying a collectible Luger.

The ones you have been looking at on the Auction appear to me to have been selected because they are less expensive. If so, you've learned that there is always a reason.

Those of us on the forum put in quite a bit of time studying the subtle markings and variations of Lugers. While you can sometimes find an under-priced collectible Luger "out in the wild" it's unusual to find them on Auction sites.

You might be better off putting a "Want to Buy" post here on the forum. Members here sell from their collections every so often.

We can also help you enroll in "Luger University" if you'd like help studying about them. The books may seem expensive, but they are a bargain when you consider the cost of over-paying for just one Luger.

Marc

Again, I really appreciate everyone's willingness to help shorten my learning curve here. I did get a front view pic of #2. I apologize that it's a cell phone pic. Best that I had at the moment. Thoughts?

That's exactly what I would have told you, buying through an auction is always very risky especially for a novice. :nono:
Before buying a firearm, I would always take a proper hands on inspection.
My 2 cents.

Well, here's how it ended up. Luger #1 ended up going for $1150 (I went all the way up to $850). Luger #2 with the holster went for $1200 (I went up to $900) and the artillery barrel went for $550. Hoping that I didn't make a mistake on #2. After I didn't see any 4 or 5 digit serial numbers on the front end, I got a little gun shy (no pun intended). With the limited knowledge that I have right now, I don't want to put down any money on something that I'm not 100% sure on. $1200 is a little too much for me to gamble with on my high school history teacher budget :)

Honestly, I was really hoping for #1. If it has matching numbers and shoots, I'd be happy as can be. Thanks for all the tips and insight. I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future. I'll see how Santa treats me and then may put up something on the "Want to Buy" part of the forum.

The prices seem reasonable but it is always a crap shoot. And remember that even though #1 sold at $1150, that doesn't mean that $1150 would buy it. You may have ended up at $1500 against an aggressive bidder. Plus, here you also have a bidder's premium, sales tax, and transfer fee. Adds up fast.
dju

#1 ended up going for $1150 TWICE what it's worth. This is why auctions can be a bad place to buy but a good sales venue.

#2 with the holster went for $1200 $300 holster..$900 pistol. Interesting. NO serial numbers bothers me some..James, I blew up the front frame marking but just couldn't see what it was?

the artillery barrel went for $550. That might have been the bargain. MIGHT have been..

Save your money. The right Luger will come along. Find a good Luger book and keep up the education. You want to be ready when the right one comes along.

On #2, the front had the letters "JC" on it. I'm like you though. the fact that there were no serial numbers at all spooked me. Hopefully it wasn't the holy grail of lugers or something :)

James,
surely not the "holy grail", but a custom make ticket to club Fed.
Obviously removed serial number is a big no-no.:soapbox:

Perhaps it would never come up, but it could.

You were/are wise to pass.

We saw a post with three #1 serial pistols not long ago, with the same "problem".