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Question about 1911 Luger
Good day to all. I recently purchased a 1911 Luger in remarkable condition, however, one issue. On my other Lugers, when magazine is inserted, I can pull the toggle joint to the rear and it locks in place. This Luger does not. Is there a major problem here? Thanks in advance for any insight.
Dan |
Could be a problem, maybe not.
Up till during 1913 military Lugers were made without the hold open. They were added to most earlier pistols, and from mid 1913 or so installed in all. If yours doesn't hold open, it maybe does not have one, or if cut for the hold open- it is missing or broken. hope this helps. If you don't like it, pass it along to me, I've been looking for one without the feature as an example!:) |
Thanks Don. I was hoping this would be the answer. This pistol is the nicest I have. Really near perfect. Is regimentally marked to a Bavarian Ambulance Corp Railway Unit. Did not say that exactly right but you get the gist. Rather rare I understand.
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Can you remove the upper and photo down on the lower on the right side of the mag well from the top? That will help us confirm or deny the above opinion.
And congratulations on your acquisition. I like's 'em all but early Lugers rock... dju |
The hold open is a small lever that is pushed up against the receiver by the magazine along the top of the frame (inside). It has a small spring.
In an early gun without the conversion, you won't see anything there. Just the top of the frame. The modification milled out a channel for the hold open lever. |
Bavarian and Wuerttemberger P08s were not retrofitted with hold-opens. I suspect that the subject 1911 is not Railway associated but rather train unit as in wagon train.
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I found someone online who has the pistol within several number of mine in the regimental numbering. Photos included. Seems rude to talk about the pistol but not show it. Rather nice straw. Thanks for the continued discussion
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How about showing us a photo of the front of the frame with serial number?
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You bet...
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Thank you.
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Very nice; now take it apart and see if the hold open is there or not!
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Regards, Norm |
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Very nice , does the mag match to the gun ?
Special on serie "e"1911 |
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By the way Dan, that is a beautiful Luger. Are the photos of your gun or the one you found on line? |
Dan
I think you've got a pretty nice 1911 DWM with interesting markings on the front strap. While it's absolutely normal that your gun hasn't got the stock lug (introduced only in 1913), the hold open device was installed on the 1914 models and following, but many older lugers were sent to the Erfurt Arsenal to have it installed. Sergio |
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I have mine out and don't see anything on the right outside to indicate a hold-open, although it does indeed have one... :mad: |
On guns modified for a holdopen post manufacture, you should find a small pin has been installed in the right frame rail. This pin is visible on the outside of the gun. Sorry I don't have a photo handy to show you.
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Here's a photo of a 1912 Erfurt that was retro-fitted with a hold open. As Ron has said, all these conversions were done by Erfurt so DWM Lugers have the same small inspection mark. The end of the pin on retro fitted guns was always left "in the white", if it's blued over then the gun has been refinished.
Regards, Norm |
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Thanks for the pic! I do seem to recall having this discussion once before, but CRS is causing me all kinds of problems... :( |
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When I use "absolutes" I always get in trouble; perhaps it is the twisted history I have with analysing Japanese rifles and pistols, nothing is ever cast in stone with them for sure. So I always try to remember to "hedge" by using "likely or usually, etc.:cheers: I don't understand why the OP seems to be afraid to open up the pistol and confirm or just see where the hold open would be. It is indeed a great looker, but as you point out, he may not have it in hand. |
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So do just the retrofitted guns show the pin hole, and also do all the retrofitted guns have the Erfurt inspection mark near the pin hole?
dju |
Every one I ever saw did.
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Correct. Sergio |
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There is no other way to drill the hole; the opposite frame rail is in the way of drilling a blind hole. ;) Quote:
Here's a good example of a pin hole in hiding...The top pic is taken straight-on; the bottom pic is with the frame tipped up...Both the same frame, but the hole only shows up if you know where it is... :p I'm starting to remember all this now... :D |
Thanks to all who have help me to get an answer. First Ron, yes pistol shown is mine. The other I reference was also in similar condition. I also appreciate the patience and effort to not only explain but photograph where the pin would be. Frankly, I would never have seen it if it were there. Whereas I really like Lugers and have a few, I am not very knowledgeable with the critical detail as to how they function. Per post 27, I can confirm this pistol has not had a hold-open pin installed. So I conclude the slide will not stay open and that is proper as manufactured. I really enjoyed this thread. Dan
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Don, I was not reluctant to open the slide to see what was going on. From initial posts I was still not able to understand what I was looking for to make that determination. Also, I was away from my computer since yesterday. It didn't really come clear until I saw photos in post 27. Me thinks I am not a quick study. Thanks for your help.
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Here's a pic of the holdopen installed, removed, and removed/tilted...You can see the pin better from the inside...
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no no no....
it is Batter #3, top of the second, 1 out, batter's average is .237... now i get it........ |
Thanks Sheepherder. Great photos. I appreciate it.
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Unmodified DWM 1911 on the left, compared to a 1918 Erfurt with the hold-open.
Balder http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...psrnjfucqn.jpg |
Thanks Balder. Very helpful. My pistol has definitely not been modified. This is a very friendly and accommodating forum.
Dan |
Failed to answer one question. Magazine is not matching.
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Dan,
My pleasure. Congratulations on your immaculate Luger, amazing condition! As for this forum, you will not find a friendlier or more knowledgeable gun forum on the Net. I've been hanging around here since 2003 and learned a lot from the experts. Some fun facts on the two Lugers in my picture above. They were both brought to Norway by SOE agents during WW2. The Brits used war booty from WW1 to equip clandestine operations in German-occupied Europe, due to weapons shortage. Balder |
Unit mark is:
Bay. 3. Train-Batl., Sanitätskompanie Nr.1, Waffe 237. KFS |
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Just for S&G, here's what your Erfurt inspection/acceptance mark should look like... :p
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All the best Sergio |
Thanks Karl and Sergio. Interesting.
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