Stainless M1900
 

I won a lot at the Pyle Auction, $750 + BP, etc. Looks like it's SN is "AE 040 OF 350"?

An excellent purchase! Aimco made some of these up for the NAPCA show in Kansas City in 2000. I had a table there I shared with Mark Rendina. I designed a special medallion for the show and Mark had them made up. They were pretty well received and I wish I had some more to hand out.

Where did you attend a Joe R. Pyle auction, if I may ask?
Jack

Excellent purchase, but blued stainless?

Very nice!:)
I have never seen one of those before. I like it.
Be interesting to hear your range report,if you decide to shoot it.:burnout:
Bob

To David

Congratulations indeed for your last purchase.


Sergio

What IDs it as stainless?

To the best of my knowledge Aimco only made stainless guns.

I asked Dwight and Vlim about this (assume the same one on Proxibid).

I did not know that Aimco made 1900 type lugers.

Very cool

That is one very fine looking Luger. I really like it a lot. At that price point, I believe that you did really good on it. Do you plan to shoot it, or is it going to be a safe queen?

I have wondered that too, as I want to 'dish' the P08 toggles on my long-barrel. I get 50mm diameter, = ~1.969" diameter... :)

$750+ BP, even with 20% BP,,, only $900. Excellent buy. It's not a cheap gun, it's a good gun cheap.

I'm satisfied, for sure. I often post a "lowball" bid on stuff I'm interested in. Sometimes the practice is a little nerve-wracking, in that if all bids came in, I'd really have to scramble to cover the accumulated total. More often than not, I win nothing. I thought this one would go for more, but figured what the heck. We've all seen or missed relative bargains that, for reasons not comprehensible, go for way less than one would expect. I noticed a chrome Whitney Wolverine at the last RIAC, and if I hadn't sunk my prospects into the M1900 commercial I bid on, would have bid $4-500. That sucker sold for $4,000 + BP, etc.!!!

I'll shoot it a bit, just 'cause... The bulk of my collection is now .30 Luger, all of which are shooter grade--though some are much nicer than others and court the line of being collectible. I call 'em collectible shooters. This one looks to be in great shape, at least finish-wise in the pics, so I probably won't shoot it a lot. Parts for the regular stainless ones are made of (I forget who said this...sounds like a G.T.-ism) pure unobtainium, and although not numbered, man, I'd hate to break something on a blued stainless Luger! The ejector on my stainless P.08 was cracked, and an original actually functions and fits--if you neglect the fact that it is a tad narrower in the slot than the ss part, and is a different color (blued) which can't be corrected by shining it up, which would merely reveal carbon steel color. Hmmm, maybe I should blue all the small parts to match the ejector.

This version , unfortunately, has a P.08 profile sight blade, and they skimped by omitting the toggle lock on the right side. The last observation is that the grip panels are the cheap-o machine-checkered variety. I believe the Stoeger-branded ones had really nice grips, as well as flat surfaces that were actually flat. This one appears, like most, to have been buffed at the factory before finishing.

Jack, I was sittin' right here at my desk! Proxibid, even with the extra cost, is useful--if only to save travel expenses from NY State to WV.

Ed, you need to do a search in our very own galleries! I remember a thread that gave a link--maybe a year ago?-- to a collection of stainless Luger pics there. Aimco apparently assembled a raft of different configurations and calibers. I've seen pics of a stainless Navy, IIRC, somewhere in that collection.

Does anyone have a catalog, flyer, or whatever, that shows the Aimco variations? I think most were branded and sold by others, e.g. Stoeger, so I'll bet each company that is still in business probably put out something about what they were selling at the time.

Since American made, might it just be 2" D?

I don't have gauges that large, so I just compared jam jars, vitamin bottle tops, and a Jack Daniels shot glass, which seemed the best fit... :)

Reminds me of a couple of years ago when I was applying infill under the top tail of the spiral stairs I was completing for a client. In the area described by each rise, run, and bottom rail, building code dictates that a 6" D sphere be unable to pass. Since I was out of 6" balls:roflmao:, I used the lid to a gallon paint can, which was perfect to check among the three lines. I guess nature provides...:cheers:

American Rifleman had an article in March "Three handguns that got away (link)".

The 2nd pistol that the writer missed was a near mint prewar FN 1910 asking only $300. But the guy unbelievably hesitated.

Viewing from another angle, he missed the opportunity because he's not a FN Browning collector. Otherwise, he would not keep thinking what his spouse said :)

Hindsight, as they say, is 20/20! The third gun in the article, although out of my realm of interests, got me thinking about the concept of trade-ins. I've never experienced a situation where I had to consider such a thing... I can barely imagine it. I have a wide variety of toggle pistols, ranging from the M1900 I scored a few months ago, to this stainless version. One represents the beginning of Luger history, the other is what could be called the bitter end. In between, there's a decent Arty (crippled by its missing stock lug), a double-date, former Arty military and a couple of AE's. My 6" Mauser Swiss configuration 9mm, and the stainless P.08 help fill in the post-war category.

When I encounter a juicy deal, and if I don't have the dough to pounce on it, I don't even think of using one of what I already have as an offset! For a "serious" collector who is upgrading a collection, replacing a place-holder gun with a better example, this is likely not such a vexing consideration, I'd imagine. My wacky style leads me to regard its examples kind of like adopted children, each with its own background and temperament. So, which of my kids would I sell or trade, to get a better kid? It is painful to even think of making such a choice!

In 58 years of collecting I have only sold or traded 4 Lugers...it is hard to let go. :)

I differ from the above; as much as I love Lugers guns are only objects without feelings.
As a collector I always try to improve my (small) collection, and if I've got to "sacrifice" a gun to get a much better one I always do it.


Sergio

For me, selling items from my collection is like parting with old friends.

Selling some C&R items from collection is a good experience. There were surprises too.

I had an early small ring hammer C96 acquired from a gunboard.com member back 10 years ago. The gun had some cold blue applied on its left side. I worried so much when I listed it, you know, that issue had to be disclosed in advertisement. Say, "it's good except there is a cold blue patch applied on left side of the frame many years ago". Be honest, if the previous seller had disclosed that to me 10 years ago, it would not come to me -- It's not cheap, almost $3k. "Who would want this... this must be a hard item to sell".... Who could expect this gun was sold the 2nd day!! Buyer did not care the cold blue patch. I even made $100 profit on it. Unexpected, unexpected....

But not always easy like this. Perfectly good gun could hang for long time without selling. The darn "flatside C96" was such an example. It's scarce, in excellent original shape. At the beginning, I expected selling it within 1 or 2 months. Who could expect it took me almost a year and a half. Numerous queries from people under table, but no one took it. That's unexpected. Finally, I sold it at a discount (I seldom do that).

Of course, many other cases too. There are buyers buying $5000 C&R without a single question, and there are buyers buying $160 Nagant revolver with lots of questions. There was buyer looking at FN 1900 and could not believe it's original -- it's hard to explain FN 1900's current market price actually does not worth top professional's time to restore, but people saw too many worn examples has built up a fixed pattern in mind, etc, etc.. Just like buying, there are some fun in selling, don't miss it.

Most of the Lugers I have acquired fit a place in the scheme of my collection. I usually can't afford to just buy a Luger because it is nice looking. So if I sold one that I have, it would leave a hole in my collection. The ones I did let go were usually because I had upgraded or I got "repro" (made after 1918 :)) in trade and didn't want to keep it.

Say, selling that early small ring did leave a hole in the collection, which I have not filled in yet. But I don't worry at all -- through numerous buy, sell, buy, sell, buy, sell, ... cycles, now I roughly know what can be found at what frequency. Of course, there is still a price factor, if I get a little bit more money one day, I would pay for a nice one.

Getting back to the blued stainless. Why would they blue stainless isn't that an oxymoron? Bluing is used to protect steel, The stainless steel they use in guns should not need any rust protection. If you want a blued gun why go to expense of using stainless steel. I believe it is a harder metal to work with and no extra advantages except looks and ant-rusting.

Aimco only made stainless guns, but some folks wanted a traditional look for the commemorative Lugers so Aimco made a run of blued pieces. I am not sure what the "blue" was. Perhaps a form of anodizing?:

It is a nice Luger. ;)

Did Aimco also make the 1900 style in 'raw' stainless???

Yes

Sig has been coating (with color) their stainless steel slides for years. It is not a bluing process though. I don't how many other gun manufacturers are doing something similar.

There is a coating process called Armaloy that was developed in the 1960's. As I recall, one of the options was for a black chrome finish which resembles bluing. The finish was very hard, and provided not only good looks, and strong wear capabilities, but also assisted in the reduction of friction in moving parts. I remember several gun industry magazine articles on the process and all were positive in evaluation. This may be the process used to "color" the stainless guns produced by AIMCO to look like they were blued. I never used the process myself, but I remember it was very pleasing to the eye.

http://www.armoloy.com/

maybe this? http://joerpyleauctions.com/category/past-auctions/

The M1900/2000!
 

Here are the pics I took of it yesterday. It was perfect conditions for taking pics outside, so I jumped onto the project, which had been fairly long-procrastinated. None of the parts typically numbered with the last two serial number digits are so-marked on this one, save the "40" on the regular place on the rear toggle link--albeit engraved, as opposed to stamped.

I am pleased that this example, unlike my stainless P.08, presents fairly flat surfaces instead of the commonly encountered wavy buffing results. I believe this one, too, was buffed--but much more carefully. The transition curve at the top, front of the receiver is a bit soft-looking, and the two sides of it are not symmetrical, but this is waaay better than the P.08

Specific variations from the originals I have found are:

1) Its grips are thicker than originals would be and the handle really feels fat in the hand. This is the same experience as gripping my stainless P.08 Guys with big hands might like this.

2) The grips are mechanically checkered and the pattern tapers off before it reaches the front and back edges of the panels, presumably before the diamonds get too much more distorted. Again, like my SS P.08.

3) The bottom of the grip frame is significantly wider, front-to-back, than an original P.08. My "Ollie grips" didn't even come close to covering the frame.

4) Seemingly typical of the AIMCO shop, the trigger lever is held in by a roll-pin, rather than the sprung-in deal of the originals. (see pic below)

5) The finish is not a treatment/bluing of the material, but a black coating. I'd guess it is Cerakote, or the like. It is already getting thin on the top edge of the side plate...

6) There is no anti-toggle-bounce catch on the right side toggle knob.

7) The safety lever, although the area on the frame is nicely milled white just like the early originals, works in reverse of how the early, unaltered originals did. Instead, it is like the 70's Mauser grip safeties in function, and the gun is on safe when the milled area is covered up!

8)The mag is folded construction of Stainless with a wooden bottom, spot-welded along the spines, which I consider a lesser technique to the ones staked at the top. Sorry, no pic.
A standard mag fits the well OK, but original or MecGar mags' notches for the catch are just a tad too low to allow it to click into a retained state in this gun. The mag that accompanied it clicks in securely so that it won't fall out, but it rotates somewhat around its lengthwise axis. I'm unsure how this will affect feeding/function, but will be able to report soon about it because:

I will run a mag through it, just to check its ability to function and fire correctly. This pistol was never shot much, if at all, beyond the factory test. The bottom of the block has only one, tiny mark running its length from being used.

The mag catch problem also is seen in Mitchell's produced P 08 s.

I have a chrome/black bottom Mec-gar that is modified for a Mitchell, if you want it, I'll swap for an un-modified one. Latch cut was raised just enough to latch.

In a normal P 08 it fits and feeds, but is too low to operate the hold open 100%, but did so in the stainless mitchell it was modified for.

Ah, yes, Don, you are right, I forgot to mention as part of 8) that the mags from the stainless Aimco-made Luger, branded "OFM", fit and work just fine...and I have four of them. (Thanks for the offer, nonetheless!)

The only in-hand experience I've has with the AIMCO guns is with the two that I have. After studying many images of various ones online, I have the impression that the ones contracted to and branded with the Stoeger "Luger" name were probably the contract that was held to the strictest specs for fit and finish. All the other brands seem to have been buffed wavy and weird.

My Interterarms 06 by Mauser also had "fat" grips with sharp checkering - sent grips to Hugh and what a difference to hold. A beauty to hold and shoot - trigger action is much smoother then original.

I did a few test rounds this evening. It chambers a round from either the mag that accompanied it or the flat-sided American Eagle mags from its stainless cousin. First single round fired with original mag did not operate the hold-open. Next tried a flat sided mag, which als0 chambered rounds OK. Every other round was a misfire-- a dent in the primer, but no bang. When I had it apart, the f.p. spring impressed me as a little wimpy--not as heavy a gauge wire used, and less resistance to compression. I came right in and changed to a new Wolff spring, but it's too dark to go back out. Next up, we'll see if it was light strikes to the Berdan primers, or bad ammo from SAMCO this time around. To be continued...

The grips are as they are, for now. If this ever develops serious collectibility, I don't want my grip work to detract from that. I am very tempted, however, to diddle with the grips of my other SS Luger to thin them down for a better feel, and extend the pattern all the way to the edges to improve their look (and quality), as well as try to dress some of the gun's wavy metal surfaces flat. The beauty of the latter is that there will be no need to reestablish the finish in the areas worked on--it has no finish! I also need to repair the million dollar chip on its left grip.

And you probably wish you had them all back. John

Fresh Wolff firing pin spring did the trick, no more failure to fire. The flat-sided AE mag operates the hold-open just fine--not so with the mag that came with it. Its follower button is styled a little differently. It makes the hold-open rise, but it can easily be pushed back down with a finger. I think the excess lateral room in the mag well may be allowing the hold-open to slip off and past the button.

Quite a beautful gun even if it isn't a collectible, but who cares after all.
Congratulations.

Sergio

More likely a weak mag spring, or a hold open that is a little tight in its cut out.

Wolf has new mag springs; the hold open may just need a little
work with some fine paper.

The hold open must move very freely in its cut out.

I make 416stainless triggers for Sig P238's and P938's and a surprising number of people want them blued.
I know, to me it takes the custom aspect away, but they want the gun to look just as they were with the piece of plastic they came with.