WHAT THE MYSTIC ABOUT A LUGER??
 

Why are they so collectable?? My only assumtion is that when the guns came out, the design was way ahead of its time. After all, they do look like a phaser from Star Trek in a way, dont they?? But on the other hand if you were going into combat tomorrow and had a choice would you want a Luger, P-38 or a 1911? (assuming of course you were in WW2). Personally, I would want a P-38, it simple, rugged and above all, reliable.I guess thats why Im partial to com/block weapons(Makarovs, AK-47's SKS's etc..), there not made for beauty pagents, there made for function and reliability, and there cheap and they do the job very well!!! The Luger is made like a Swiss watch, too complex, the 1911, well you cant hit the side of a barn with it and too big of a piece for me, at least thats my opinion.But yet out of the three guns mentioned, the Luger is the most sought after and most collectable. Sorry, I cant see folks spending over 1000.00 on a 1911. To me there worth about 100.00 if that, no matter what it is, and after all, my God, how many of them were made in comparison to a Luger. Even today, 1911's are 8-900 and up for new ones. As for the WW1 and 2 variants, there outrageous!! Personally, a Luger had no place in combat(as the Germans came to realize later), it was too elegant a piece of machinery for that purpose and too expensive to make!!. I think of the old elegant dueling pistols in a case when I think of a place for a Luger. By far however, the Luger was and is a state of the art piece of workmanship and engineering. Maybe thats what it is.

Re: WHAT THE MYSTIC ABOUT A LUGER??
 

Actually, and correct me if I'm wrong, but i believe that i heard one time that Gene Rodenberry did design the original phaser for Star Trek based on the Luger. Unfortunately, the Later Phasers look more like "Dustbusters" than any handgun design. The Luger's popularity in my opinion is indeed based on the engineering design that remains timeless today. With the exception of the Sig 210, there is no finer engineered pistol. Just think, guys, that design is over 100 years old!

Until Next Time,

Tim

Re: WHAT THE MYSTIC ABOUT A LUGER??
 

Mark, For combat I'd select the M1911 for reliabilty and knockdown power. After all a pistol is designed for last ditch, close in use. I do agree that the collectable ones are overpriced, but you can still purchase a new production clone for around $300. As with most of us of the Baby Boom Generation, we grew up watching the bad guys (both Nazis & gangster) in the movies on Saturday afternoons, threatening the good guys with their lugers. Even the comic books of the '50s make them bigger than life as well as having ads to buy a real one for $39.95 or a plastic copy for $5.

Re: WHAT THE MYSTIC ABOUT A LUGER??
 

Well as far as firepower. Wonder why the military went to using Berettas over the 1911. Only thing I can think of is because 15 rounds is better than 7? Is it quality in firepower or quantity in firepower?

Re: WHAT THE MYSTIC ABOUT A LUGER??
 

"Quantity has a quality of its own"!!


V. Lenin

Re: WHAT THE MYSTIC ABOUT A LUGER??
 

Mark I see what you are saying, however, the .45 shoots fine, is reliable and shoots a .45. If you are carrying a pistol, you aren't carrying it for long range shooting, anything over 30-50 feet, you might as well grab an M1 or M16. The P38 is a nice reliable weapon, but I would take a .45 any day over either 9mm for combat.


Ed

Re: WHAT THE MYSTIC ABOUT A LUGER??
 

They went to the 9MM because all of our NATO allies use the 9mm.

Re: WHAT THE MYSTIC ABOUT A LUGER??
 

The mystery in the Luger to me is the engineering and the limited quantities. They were not designed as a war time production military firearm which had to be mass produceable, reliable under all conditions, and simple to use at the lowest level of intelligence which defines the standard mil production 1911 series. 66 Mustang is correct in the 9mm standardization but another factor was the age of the existing 1911A1s, retrofit & rebuild was not an option.

IMHO a pistol is an auxillary tool not to be confused as a primary combat use weapon. Better than a knife or E tool, but give me a M16 any day.


Roadkill

Luger Mystique
 

When the Lugers were new, they were indeed state of the art.

The guns were generally used by officers or police, and as such, weren't subjected to the same conditions the enlisted men faced on a daily basis.

The "mystique" of the Luger is in it's timeless ergonomic design, it's abilities as a natural pointer, it's fine craftsmanship, the "history written in steel" aspects, and it's very unique action.

9mm was chosen for it's wounding abilities, not necessarily for it's killing potential, as a great deal more enemy resources were tied up with a wounded soldier than with a dead one.

They are the most universally recognized handgun design, and stand out from all others.

Plus, to hold one, just feels *different* and special.

Re: Luger Mystique
 

That I do agree with for 110% sure. There is nothing, even today, that feels like a Luger in your hand. It feels natural or something, cant describe it...

My combat choice!
 

If I had to go to war I personally would like to have a .50 Action Express on one hip(and a Luger on the other)!

Re: My combat choice!
 

If I can hear the shots as I leave home, my choice is my Para. P-14 with a few extra clips on my belt and my Colt AR in my hands. The luger, neat as it is, belongs in a case or in a museum.


AGE

Re: My combat choice!
 

I can not explain the mystique of the luger any better than you all have. I have also found that they are much like Lays potato chips: You CAN'T stop at having just one. As for a choice of combat. Well that would have to be a glock in 40 S&W!


Sidhartha

Re: My combat choice!
 

AK-47 for serious stuff long or short range and plenty of penetration power, good in small areas due to short length, H&K Compact 45 for concealed carry, Model 25-5" 357 for open carry, PPK for deep conceallment or possibly snubnose 357 Model 66 S&W, "Thor" my 340 Weatherby for stuff that can EAT YOU! When I go out in the desert for test firing my AK always protects the Thorhide! Thorster

Give me a 1911A1, Thank You Very Much (EOM)
 

Re: My combat choice!
 

I know what you mean. Last Sunday I was out in the backwoods shooting away. Two guys came up and were very interested in my hardware, lots of questions, lots of attention. They hung around a little too long. I wouldn't shoot cause I didn't want to turn my back on them and they just stood around looking at my hardware spread out on a blanket. They finally caught on and left, I was very glad I had my pp stuck in my belt where they could see it. I'll probablty go with your idea and bring more firepower next time.Its hard to determine true interest vs malice.


Roadkill

Re: WHAT THE MYSTIC ABOUT A LUGER??
 

I take exception with your remark about no 1911 being worth more than $100.00, no matter what. I have an original 1911, which has 95%+ original, mag., grips, etc. You couldn't buy that for less than $1k. A Luger is a Luger! It is the creme of the creme. Don't compare it to a 1911, both have their own attributes, and shortcomings but, a Luger is a Luger! There's only one and is hasn't be copied. Nothing like the real thing!

Re: My combat choice!
 

having had personal experience with the exchange of ball ammunition during the unpleasantries in southeast asis some years ago, I can assure you that in a fight, if you armed with a handgun, it needs to be bigger than a 9MM. I have personally witnessed a GI being shot in the face at a range of less than 5 feet witha 9MM. The slug broke the skin just under the left eye and abeam the bridge of the nose, deflected upward and outward and traveled around the eye socket subcutaneously coming to rest just above the eyebrow. It was visibly bulging the skin. The GI shootee, a former Golden Gloves semi-finalist nearly beat the shooter half to death with a piece of a field table before he could be stopped. He was a bloody mess; an enraged bloody mess and quite animated.


One worthy oriental gentleman I had occasion to engage with a M1911AI at a range of about 30 feet wasn't nearly so animated after he and that 235 grain full metal jacket slug traveling at 850 fps collided. He was also a bloody mess but he was most assuredly not animated.


Moral: use enough gun

Re: My combat choice!
 

Ted,

The S&W Model 25 is .45 caliber. The first models were .45ACP and later made in .45 Colt. The stainless versions were Model 625's.

Re: My combat choice!
 

Meant model 27 sorry

I love my Lugers,
 

and have about 10 times more of them than 1911's, but for serious social occasions I carry my Colt Officers Model 45 ;

Re: WHAT THE MYSTIC ABOUT A LUGER??
 

I'm not in the service, but I remember that one consideration is the .45 is not a "humane" cartridge, i.e. it can really maim a person. The new "rules of war" look down on those kinds of weapons. It is also harder to shoot because of the recoil.

1911
 

1911 hands down. Powerful, A friend who was in Vietnam shot a NVA in the wrist, and it spun him around and threw him to the ground. They're rugged too, betcha you could drop it in a bucket of wet cement and it would still fire! Also, the louder the bullet is, the more psycholgical impact on the enemy.


Lugers still are the kings, 1911's are the soldiers.

Re: 1911
 

Very interesting story I read a few years back cataloguing the views of many of the leading handgun editors that all had high acclaim for all the different cartridges from 9mm on up. BUT.....BUT when they were asked the caliber of the gun they carried personally???? 45 was hands down favorite. I sure like my H&K 45 ACP with those nice Federal 230gr HydraShoks! Thor

Re: My combat choice!
 

Tom,


I agree with all your sentiments on the 1911-A1. It is THE combat handgun to me also. I don't need all the fancy abidextrious stuff, the double action, or the large capacity magazines. I can use either hand to fire with, I can **** the hammer ina milisecond, and I can change a magazine quickly too! A combat handgun was for defense and you should know when it may be required. I considered it may last defensive measure and the old .45 never let me down!


As to the late unpleasentness in Southeast Asia, I still prefer the AK-47 over the M-16 for that type warfare.


Marvin

Re: Luger Mystique
 

In reference to the post about wounding being preferable to killing-we all have read that drivel before-Whoever started that was a REMF or a draft dodger or someone who has never been out of his yard.--No Offense to Hannah for repeating it.


The only time you ever point a weapon at a human being is to use it to take his life-right then.


You are doing that because that individual has placed you in a situation where your life or the lives of your family or people are in mortal danger.


You shoot him and you kill him-a live armed person is a threat-period.


Best you use a real gun like a .45-two in the chest, one in the head and one in the groin to bleed him out.


Guns ain't toys.

Re: I love my Lugers, plus
 

Having been down on the street, I'll take my 'Python' in the .357, up close and personal, across the street, even through the car door. The "look" of that hand cannon has 'cooled' many an enraged soul.......kwikly!!!!

Re: My combat choice!
 

Hi Marvin,


I agree with you on the M-16; IMHO, the bullet weight was too light for a jungle environment. I did have *spectacular* results, however, with an M-14 that I "acquired" from an atypical source of supply.


I arranged to have the barrel clipped just ahear of the gas cylinder nut and had the stock bobbed just past the pistol grip. Pappa San obligingly braised two 20 round mags together for me and i *engineered* the two mag springs so that I could accomodate 17 rounds.


This baby was my brush gun and was exceptionally effective at getting bad guys out of bamboo. I ALWAYS had noise superiority!


Tom

Re: Tom -- Amen brother! (EOM) (EOM)