Feeding problem
 

Fired a 30 caliber Luger, it consistently jams on feeding. The problem is same on every loading during cycling, and cartridge stucks on same position. At this position, even pull the toggle does not help because the bullet position is above the chamber. But initial round can be feed correctly manually. The hold open works fine as well.

Is this due to weak magazine spring? Thanks!

It might be affected by the spring, but I think it could also be OAL of the round. Hand-loads? Do different brands of ammo all do this?

The ammo is brand new Fiocchi 1200 FPS 93GRS FMJ. Not reload. There is another brand available, also being factory, I forgot the name, it has lead bullet without jacket. If it's ammo issue, I will buy another brand and give it a try...

The first thing that I would do after a good clean and lube, is to try a new Mec-Gar mag. That Fiocchi FMJ ammo should function 100% IF your Luger is correct. Start with the basics.

Check to see how high the magazine has latched into the frame. If there is a lot of play it could be shifting down too low during cycling.

The issue could also be the magazine spring. Don't try to disassemble it yourself. People that work on these (Like G.T. on this board) have special tools.

Finally, consider that the recoil spring could be a 21 turn rather than a 17 turn spring. This could have too much power, and cause the cycle timing to be off.

Alvin,

Proper O.A.L. for the 7.65 Luger should be 1.173 inches with a round nose bullet. None of the modern ammo I've measured comes any where near that.

Sieger

Poor luger, it must have starved to death. Those nasty brooms took up all Alvin's time.:mad:

It worked with a new Italian made magazine. I sold the gun to another collector, and sold the Italian magazine on ebay. As you guys know, most Luger collectors are chasing "Nazi guns", so it was not easy to sell, but it's in nice shape and asking price was low, so it was sold OK.

I had two guns repaired recently -- a Red 9 and an Interarms Luger. The 9mm ammo is way cheaper than .30 Mauser and .30 Luger. I will play those two for a while. Got a few FN 1900s in my safe, but those are too nice to shoot often, so I bought another FN 1900 for range use -- I had many boxes of 7.65mm ammos in storage. Since all Spanish Rubies are gone now, I need a 7.65mm pistol, thought again and again, and decided to buy a FN 1900 to consume those ammo.

2015 was a busy year. I generated many transactions to keep myself busy. Next year, probably will have lower activities,,,, but who knows, there are always lots of unknown factors.

That looks like a classic "COL is too short" jam. To me, the round looks too short. Is the COL the same after trying to chamber as before?
Can you hand cycle them?
If the first round feeds fine, then the magazine is next place to look. The world is filled with junk magazines.

My 7.65 Luger, five digit serial number, is doing the same thing as alvin's with Fiocchi ammo. My Fiocchi box made four years ago (per Fiocchi) cycles great, my Fiocchi boxes made two years ago (per Fiocchi) don't. Rep at Fiocchi told me the boxes made two years ago must be under powered (his words). He is having me return all of the two year boxes for replacement.

Since you are in contact, Please-
ask him if he will share codes or lot numbers so we can sort this out!

Or suggest they even have a recall on the under power ammo, it is hurting their reputation and will eventually affect all their sales.:eek:

!

Another question for the rep is whether they can supply the 93 gr FMJ bullets to us reloaders.

The rep I spoke with was going to replace the boxes I'm returning. He was seeking information from the plant in Italy (said all 7.65 is made in the same location) in order to try to provide replacement loads close to the four year old loads that work well in my Luger. I assume he will be using the lot numbers I provided to attempt this. I told him frankly that this situation isn't exactly boosting my confidence in Fiocchi.

Will you share the good and not good lot numbers with us?

I had good results with "black box" 93 gr. JSP with these #s:
52100300 2044
CIP 002 0480

Tan box - per rep was made four years ago. Round nose - 1.123"
5110003-0390
CPI_001-3835
1784

Black box - per rep was made two years ago. Round nose - 1.113"
5310004-D02
3840-612

Shipped black boxes back to Fiocchi yesterday, no idea what they'll come up with for me. In the meantime I ordered a Mec-Gar magazine so I can protect the original.

Gun show vendor I purchased the tan box from answered my inquiry about more rounds. Wrote back that they had some more, but has gone radio silent since I asked for a lot number check. Guess I'll have to phone them.

Thanks for the info, but there sure does not seem to be any rhyme or reason to the
code markings on the boxes!:banghead:

Perhaps the "tan" box is a clue.

I have a "purple box" that I have not shot any from- could you find out what time frame it dates from.

And if there is a code for determining date or any other info.

The important part may be the OAL???

I know , 1000 questions!:D

When Ammo Was Produced
 

Don,
In response to my provision of pictures of my box flaps, Troy at Fiocchi stated four years ago for my tan box, and two years ago for my black box. I guess he can trace manufacture date using the lot numbers. Please inquire directly with Fiocchi c/o Troy.

Jeff

I have in my possession 20+ boxes of Fiocchi with the same lot number as above. You say that your ammo was in a tan box, mine is in a light dove gray box with maroon printing. I have no explanation for that difference. I have fired 2-300 rounds of this Fiocchi with no malfunctions in my handguns. I have had this ammo for a couple of years, or so. It is 93gr FMJ.


I also have a couple of boxes of older Fiocchi ammo that is in a maroon box with white and gold lettering. This ammo does not work that well for me, as it is JSP ammo.

Thanks Jeff,
do you have an email address?

Older Fiocchi Ammo
 

rhuff,
Yes, my box is tan with a brown square on the front. Inside the brown square the ammo size is noted as "7,65". Troy from Fiocchi informed me all of the ammo we're speaking about is manufactured in the same plant, in Italy. I'm going to guess the caliper designation on your box is "7.65" and that box was distributed in the America market. I'm guessing the tan box was originally distributed through the Europe market. Only speculation, not backed up by Fiocchi.

Don,
Originally I wrote to david@fiocchiusa.com (as per fiocchiusa.com website) and all follow-on correspondence was via service@fiocchiusa.com. My case hasn't been cleared up yet, so please don't reference this discussion. :)

Keep in mind that there are individuals contributing to Luger forums who have no problem with the most recent iteration of Fiocchi's Luger ammo, the black/charcoal striped box.

If you search around you'll find there is a Fiocchi website in the U.K.. My request for assistance from that site resulted in no response.

Hope this helps,
Jeff

Thanks Jeff,
That does help. I won't screw up your case.

I'm one of the guys who has had good results with Fiocchi black box but 93g JSP not ball.

Headed to the range today with two .30 lugers and five kinds/brands of ammo. I'll see
how these shake out.

All this may have more to do with pistol/mag combination than ammo.

But I have first hand knowledge of at least one .30 Comm. that belonged to me, that worked fine with the Fiocchi soft point mentioned above, but when sold to another guy who had Fiocchi black box ball, it would not function except as single shot! Got it back and it still worked fine with my JSP ammo. What a mystery to un-ravel.

Thanks again for your posts.

Here is my contribution...Two boxes, gray w/brown rectangle (shown next to a tan box of 5.56mm for color comparison), bought from Midway just before the ammunition ban [2013?].

There are no numbers inside or outside the boxes other than the barcode number. Nothing on the end flap, inside or out; nothing on the inside body.

I have not fired any from a Luger; they were for chamber size/fit testing & headspacing 7.65 Parabellum in a Star BM, a Colt Gov't Model, and a Walther P1.

Green lacquer primer sealer; OAL is ~1.124"; cannelure crimped.

The Fiocchi 7,65 box I'm describing as tan with a brown square is the same as pictured by sheepherder, however my box has lot number information printed inside one of the end flaps.

Jeff

This sounds like a solid explanation for why we have the "same' 7.65 Para ammo in a different colored box. Mine is exactly like the ammo box shown by sheepherder, and mine does have the lot # on the inside of one flap, which is why I reported that my lot was the same as yours.

We have a mystery involving Europe and the USA.... and who knows where else!!

Just for clarification, the box I described as tan is just like the gray box described and pictured by sheepherder. So officially mine is a gray box with the brown square on the front, not the tan (smaller) box in the lower right of sheepherder's picture. I recently purchased some Winchester Western 7.65 ammo (white box) and it cycles perfectly (like my gray box Fiocchi) in my Luger. Both cycled well with the original magazine and a new Mec-Gar magazine I bought.

Having obtained working 7.65 ammo for my Luger, I requested that Fiocchi send me .380 ammo to replace the black box Luger ammo I had returned. They were happy to do so.

All is well!

Jeff

I threw the Fiocchi ammo box away.. cannot remember its color being black, or grey... black maybe. The ejected cartridge case that I saved looks same as the one showing by sheepherder.

So glad to hear that you now have a "happy Luger" and are a happy owner. These Lugers can really be ammo sensitive, as you have discovered. Apparently then, Fiocchi does not change ammo box color with identical lot #, depending on where it will ultimately end up.....good to know.