Uh-oh...
 

I guess I now own my 1900 shooter. Funny, they described it as a 1906 "thin barrel". http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie.../1024/lid/5386 This is just about what I wanted as far as condition and price...well, it's always more expensive than we want, whatever. I think the overall fine pitting is charming!

Here's how I rationalize the buyer's premium: It's what I pay to eliminate travel expenses. A couple hundred bucks might barely cover the gas to a Luger this distance from me--which I think I would travel if I had to.

I'll get better pics up once it's home, which will be a while if it's anything like last time I won something there.

I like it. It's a taste. If it's all matching, it's a gem.

===

But don't "restore" it. It has been kept as is for many years, that's not easy, keep it this way will be the best. Once I saw a pistol on GB, sending message to seller asking the bore condition. He replied "fair bore, but you can reline it". I was so disappointed -- not on the bore condition, but on his misunderstanding.

I bid on it too - just at the lower end - I agree with what you say about travel and the buyers premium, although I plan on sending them a check.

I won the 1925 Simson and somehow ended up with an early colt :)

Great....if you're a Luger guy, you've got to eventually have a 1900

At least you won something...I bid on a lot that I was sure no one else would want, and bid the 'high end', with Plus 2...And still lost... :crying:

Oh! Hey Dave - I looked at that one! I thought the big grip thingie was some kind of cartridge counter... :D

What's the meaning of those "Plus 1", "Plus 2", I saw that on bid form, but don't know the meaning so I always leave that blank...

Ah! There's another controversy! I had thought it meant a second (or third) incremented bid, from your last bid...But another member told me it was a second (or third) bid from the last bid, no matter who from...

There is a big difference...If it's from the last bid, and say there were 3 bids above yours, in increments of $100, your Plus 1 bid could be $400 higher than your last bid...And your Plus 2 could be $400 more than that...But if it's just a Plus 1 from your last bid, then you'd stop at $200 over your maximum...

It's very confusing... :(

Its a plus 1 or 2 to YOUR bid

or else you'd be guaranteed to win if it was plus 1 to the final bid :D

Oh, well, I am taking one to Louisville to sell :)

No, because once you use a Plus 1 (or your Plus 2), it's gone; used up...

It's gotta be the Plus to YOUR last bid (like you say)...'cause if there were 10 of you bidding, you could go $2,000 over your original bid of $1,000...

Doesn't matter. I could go Plus 10 and someone on the floor would still win it. :banghead:

I'm glad this morning that no one has pointed out that I paid too much. It was somewhat of an emotional influence, because I've wanted something like this baaaad for quite a while. Spiffy ones are out of reach for me, so I was more than willing to accept this "fair" condition one since it is affordable to me.

The 1906 I had G.T. re-barrel for me initially looked like an old beater before I swapped grips and barrel. I remember that it had a certain appeal to me that way, but the slight makeover won out and I'm not sorry. But this one seems even more able to stand just the way it is, plus a little cleaning up, and I can shoot it!

This is the only item I bid on, and at low estimate, so I perceived it quite unlikely to come through and was well-surprised when the notification came in. Once again, the hammer price is equal to my max bid--which was through RIA's website, NOT Proxibid, which saves several points off the premium. I'm paying by check or M.O., so that saves another 2.5% compared to c.c. payment.

Rich, that thingie looked like a "counter" window to me, too, at first glance! Never got involved with the plusses; I set my limit, submit a proxy bid as early as possible, and like Ron Popeil would say, forget it! I shudder to think what would happen if I attended an auction for something I really wanted with a pocket full of cash! My system eliminates all the emotion in the bidding aspect of things except, of course, for that moment of submitting the bid.

One detail to which I must attend before it arrives is to get a replacement CC permit. Mine accompanied everything else in it as my wallet took a ride in the washer two weeks ago, and is pretty much papier mache'. The photo came detatched in the process and is blank! Mine is the last county in the state to change to laminated permits, and I hope the county clerk has straightened out their machine by now! It is puzzling that my driver's license, which shared the wallet pocket, was completely gone, and it was laminated!

I can't get into the posted hammer prices yet, so I'll refrain comment. :)

My local permit office replaces mine almost constantly. First the change to the plastic cards (mine is 3 cards long), then they eliminated the fingerprint, then they took another picture [no reason given], now we have a newly elected PP/CC clerk so a new permit will be needed next time I register something.

I also noticed I forgot to update my employer/occupation...Oh, well... :)

Its easy to get excited at an auction. I paid too much for the 1902 Colt but have wanted one for a while - the Simson I paid just under what my 'max' was set for (less than half of what an unmolested model would be).

Rich, was unsure how you meant. I thought i was clear :) You bid $1200 and do plus 2 and it will bid to $1400 (hundred dollar increments at that amount). I think you get around 4 or 5 k and it starts to be $500 increments.

Normal auction bidding.....

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.
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Permits? for what? :D See you NY guys think thats normal - its not - I just buy a gun and put it in my C&R book and when I was younger; some states I am in, I just buy a gun :D no el-paper-work-o

*sigh*

When you are able, Rich, you'll see that the hammer price was $1,100--same as RIA's "low estimate".

Dave,
Congratulations on landing a nice early Commercial 1900. They are much more difficult to find than an American Eagle. I also notice that the serial number, 3402, is real close to my 1900 Commercial 3453!
Ron

All NYS permits are concealed carry. Some states I've been in allow purchase but not carry concealed.

$1,100 sounds reasonable to me. I paid more for my 1900AE.

I'll be interested in how much the damages come to once all totaled, with bidder's premium, taxes, transfer fees, etc.
If you don't mind sharing...
dju

hmmmm - permit allows carry too?

I thought everyone had to get a permit but few had carry permits

but i might be confusing NJ with NY City :( vs rest of NY

Philly has laws that SAY that carry permits from the rest of the state are not legal, but state legislature disagrees

Thanks, Ron, that's a load off my mind. It was specifically your muster I hoped this one would pass!

Hmmm... does this vary by county, as well? When I filled out the forms a few years ago, there was a choice of two different permits. The first one allowed you to own the gun and transport it to the range, matches, etc. under specific circumstances, something like unloaded, action open, in view, say, on the passenger's seat, ammo locked in the trunk or similarly inaccessible place. the concealed version lets you carry loaded and concealed, unless otherwise prohibited--official buildings, etc. I went for the concealed carry because it was less restrictive, and since the judge in our county was great about it, it came through no problem. The pal I bought the Caspian 1911 bulls-eye pistol from had lost his around the time of the accident that messed up his arm for using the 1911, and he was disgruntled to find that his county powers had downgraded his to the former, more restrictive sort.

David, so far the tally includes the $1,100 hammer price and the 15% buyer's premium. I chose registered mail for shipping, which should be the most economical. But they always ding you heavily for handling/packing, IIRC. I'll report after their invoice arrives. Transfer fee on my end just went up to $20 from $15 for a pistol.

If I had bid on that Luger it would have sold for 30% over high estimate! That's been my experience with firearms that I bid on at RIA. On the flip side ones I have looked at and not bid on have went for low estimate or less. Be nice to figure that out some day!:D

Dave,
I think you did just fine for an early M1900.
Relax and enjoy it.

I know what you mean. They invented Murphy's law to explain it!

Thanks, I'm really looking forward to it!

For this type of auction, there is something unknown. For example, is it a matching pistol...

But making decision before everything is crystal clear is part of gun collecting (actually, part of many moments in life IMO). Personally, I have made decisions numerous time based on poor dark photos, very simplified descriptions, etc. Some relatively cheap guns (but great ones) came that way.. Of course, also made some mistakes in the past. So far, "gain" is still bigger than "loss".

"Mine accompanied everything else in it as my wallet took a ride in the washer two weeks ago, and is pretty much papier mache'.

i had to laugh my a,,, off about that... i have come real close to duplicating that event.....what a bummer replacing all that paper work......

You left out cheap liquor... :rolleyes: :D :o

Right :) When everyone realizes something being a good deal, they would pump the price up.

Of course, should not take totally blind action. 80% sure. 20% unknown, that's common risk in remote transaction.

Alvin wrote:For this type of auction, there is something unknown. For example, is it a matching pistol...

They did explain the overall condition of the gun:



OE GOOD: some minor replacement parts; metal smoothly rusted or lightly pitted in places, cleaned; lightly scratched, bruised or minor cracks repaired; in good working order.

We'll see when she gets here. As I understand it, the rating could be describing any, or all of these characteristics. It proposes "lightly pitted in places", which is accurate enough--if you consider that "places" could include all of them! The best I've ever seen for lower end guns in mass auctions like RIA is "all visible numbers match", which tells us exactly that, no more, no less. We can't tell, for example, whether any of the numbers have appropriately matching fonts unless the photographic evidence shows it..and we certainly have no information about the numbered internals. Wrapping one's mind and expectations/suspicions around an auction pistol is difficult, so I agree with what Alvin says about the aspect of risk versus adventure with this remote-control, online style of auction participation. This might be my best score yet, in this kind of Luger acquisition.

Well, it is not as if you were flying blind. If you follow the code supplied there is an idea of what to expect.

Older Condition Rating (1930's or older)

OA FACTORY NEW: all original parts; 100% original finish; in perfect condition in every respect.
OB EXCELLENT: all original parts; over 80% original finish; sharp lettering, numerals and design on metal; unmarred wood.
OC FINE: all original parts; over 30% original finish.
OD VERY GOOD: all original parts; none to 30% original finish.

OE GOOD: some minor replacement parts; metal smoothly rusted or lightly pitted in places, cleaned; lightly scratched, bruised or minor cracks repaired; in good working order.

OF FAIR: some major parts replaced; minor replacement parts may be required; metal rusted, may be lightly pitted all over, vigorously cleaned; rounded edges of metal and wood; principal lettering, numerals and design on metal partly obliterated; wood scratched, bruised, cracked or repaired where broken.
OG POOR: major or minor parts replaced; major replacement parts required and extensive restoration needed; metal deeply pitted; principal lettering, numerals and design obliterated, wood badly scratched, bruised, cracked or broken; mechanically inoperative; generally undesirable as a collectors firearm in its present state.

NPRF
NON-PROFESSIONALLY REFINISHED/COLD BLUE, ETC.
PRF PROFESSIONALLY REFINISHED OR RESTORED
WB WOOD IS BETTER FOR THE PERCENT OF FINISH RATING GIVEN
WW WOOD IS WORSE FOR THE PERCENT FINISH RATING GIVEN

Some items may have “dual” codes for example: all original parts; over 30% original finish but the wood is worse for the metal rating would be the code OC-WW

Prices realized including buyers premium are now posted for this auction on the RIA website.

Dave,

Congratulations on your new Luger, I think you did quite fine for a 1900, nice gun indeed.

Sergio

OK, folks, here's the financial scoop. there will be, of course, a $20 transfer fee at my dealer's, and a $3.00 fee at the county clerk's to change my permit . Fortunately, the clerk's fee covers a new copy of my permit--to replace the current papier mache' version! BTW, the new New York State driver's licenses are high-tech, for sure. My new one is totally plastic--not laminated--and includes a little window with a tiny transparency of my mug shot in it. The image can be viewed by holding the license in front of a white paper.

ROCK ISLAND AUCTION CO. - CUSTOMER COPY
7819 - 42 Street West, Rock Island, IL. 61201
Ph: (309) 797-1500 or (800) 238-8022
Fax: (309) 797-1655 Bidder ID# 2850
Auction ID # 1024
Lot # Type Description Hammer
DAVID PARKER
Inv# Paper
Client ID 112934
Phone1: (607) 272-0445
Phone2: (607) 272-0445
S/N
6340 CARMAN RD
TRUMANSBURG, NY 14886
USA
Taxable Box
Friday, February 27, 2015
Invoice Printed On
5386 Curio & Relic
Handgun
DWM Model 1906 Thin Barrel Luger Semi-
Automatic Pistol
FRK12-1024 3402 $1,100
Cash Received
Check Amt Rcvd $0.00
Credit Card Amt $0.00
$165.00
Credit Card No. Exp:
No.
Shipping $25.65
Material $3.50
Insurance $16.30
Subtotal $210.45
Buyer'sPremium
Balance Due $1,310.45
SalesTax $0.00
Total Due $1,310.45
Signature.__________________________________________________________Date ______________________
Purchaser agrees the above items were sold AS IS, WHERE IS and with all faults. No WARRANTY or
GUARANTEE is expressed or implied and each item is the sole responsibility of the purchaser from the
MOMENT the AUCTIONEER DECLARES THE ITEM SOLD.

Second Base
 

This is an update for those who are interested in this rusty old thing, and wish to share in my sense of anticipation in the matter. I noticed in the post of the invoice above that the S/N does not show up. It is#3406. Early commercials have 5 digits, does mean this one is among the first 4k ever built?

FFL sent, two postal money orders totaling $1311 mailed yesterday. First base is winning the lot, Third base will be when it arrives at the dealer's, and the rest of the baseball analogy is pretty much a no-brainer.

In the meantime, I'll orchestrate the permit thing--for which it will already be registered when it arrives--,the permit replacement--hopefully with a new, laundry-resistant feature--,picking up a LED light bulb I ordered online from WalMart--all of which happens in Watkins Glen, about twenty minutes from home. Since my Dakota will be in the "hospital" at some point asap for front brakes and bearings--a life-saving (mine) procedure--I'm cruising on faith that I can get Nellybelle fixed and get over there and return prepared, just in time to get her in hand, on arrival day.

Hi Dave,
Nice honest early commercial with the type 1 thumb safety. To me these are the best looking Lugers. I'm sure you will be happy with it.

"Early commercials have 5 digits, does mean this one is among the first 4k ever built?"

The short answer is... No

The long answer is...Commercial production started soon after and along with the Swiss military contract. There are no records indicating exactly when and at what rate commercials were produced compared to the military contracts which were produced at the same time. The serial # ranges are different. They could have been made in batches or every third or fourth gun for example. The first commercial began with serial #1, produced in early 1900. The numbers are continuous. By 1921 commercial production reached #92000. The commercial serial # range includes commercials like yours, Swiss commercials , American Eagles and, Test Eagles which we can date, etc...

It is a Type 2 thumb safety. A Type 1 has a flatter checkered portion that is about half the length of the safety,

OK, if I understand this, then Swiss military contract 1900s, Test Lugers for the US Army, other 1900 American Eagles, etc. had their own ranges of serial numbers, as did the commercials. The number series/range for each type would be different, according to contract or category? There's documentation to date the other categories' ranges v. dates of production, but the straight commercials were built sporadically, and though consistent in their sequential numbering , there's no way to discern exactly when they might have been built? Other than to say that the serial number of mine is closer to the beginning than the 90-some thousand end in 1921, what would be a "reasonable " guess as to its birthday?

Was there a point in time when the 1900 commercials were replaced by the '06 design/configuration, or were 1900 style also produced until 1921? 1921 was the beginning of what we call "alphabet commercials"--with (up to)4-digit numbers with suffix, right?
Was the same serial number range of 1-90+k continued through all commercial variations up until 1921?

There is only ONE commercial serial # range. It is CONTINUOUS, beginning in 1900 and ending in 1942. It includes plain commercials (like yours), American Eagles, Swiss commercials, Test Eagles, Alphabet commercials, Mauser Banner commercials, etc. Yours was the 3406th gun made in the commercial serial # range. The first American Eagle in the SAME commercial S# range was #2000. For example, US Test Eagles are approximately #6100 - #7100 in the same commercial serial range. The commercial range is (#1 - #92000)(2000i - ????z). In 1921, the numbering was switched to the (military style) beginning with #2000i, which is equivalent to #92000. It continued into the z suffix. It began in 1900 with #1, produced by DWM to #????z in 1942 produced by Mauser . If the numbering hadn't been changed to the military style, the commercial range would have reached serial #250000+.
Commercial production pretty much followed Military production. When there was a military model change, for the most part, commercials did too. The Military contracts of course had separate S# ranges.
Kenyon and others really made the commercial range difficult to understand because of the "1920 - 1923 Commercial" classifications , which are backwards/out of sequence.

Time line of the commercial S# range...

1900 - DWM - #1
1921 - DWM (then BKIW) reached #92000
1921 - DWM/BKIW - switched to military style numbering #2000i (equivalent to #92000) the first of the Alphabet commercials.
1930 - The 'v' suffix was reached. DWM Luger production was moved to Mauser. Mauser continued the commercial S# range.
1942 - The 'z' suffix was reached.

PS. Krieghoff put together and finished a few DWM Alphabet commercials in the 'i' suffix which were marked on the rear frame and are part of the commercial S# range.
Krieghoff also made a few commercial Lugers, with Krieghoff toggles, which are not part of the commercial S# range.

Neither Erfurt nor Simson made commercial Lugers.

Thanks, Mike, a concise lesson. I think I get the picture. This also helps put my two '06 AEs into perspective. I appreciate your effort, which makes me sheepish that I didn't hit the books before asking. Jeez, one would think retirement would free me up a little for Sturgess and Gortz, but life is relentless in its demands!

I was looking at the hammer prices of the Feb auction today and remembered your comment above...So I copied the exact images on RIA's site, Gamma-corrected 1.5 and segmented to fit the attachment limit [1100 pixels]...

Web pics always accentuate the pits and scratches that you wouldn't notice if you had it in-hand...

Well worth the money, as others have pointed out...

We're coming down the home stretch...I think it will show up at my dealer's sometime this week. The new (to Schuyler County, anyway) permit cards are solid plastic, thermally imprinted with all the info, a pic of me that is actually recognizable, and my list of pistols. The list took up two complete cards, front and back, with the last listed by itself on card #3. I do believe these babies would survive being laundered.