New challange! Old problem!
 

Hello to all, well, the latest quest has reared its ugly head over the weekend! And it's not one for the timid! I have on my bench, a WW1 Luger drum magazine with a broken (in several places!) mainspring! First off, the spring, even when broken, is just short of impossible to remove, and probably the same to install as well?... And, talk about over kill, it has approx. a 92" relaxed length all scrunched up in a 2.750" dia. and this is without tension!!!:eek:.....All this, just to preload approx. 250 degrees of rotation??... So, my questions are.. has anyone ever attempted this repair/replacement? And, most importantly, is there a source for springs either original or aftermarket? And maybe even more importantly, is there any need for these springs or are they a rare occurrence on the breakage issue?... If anyone has one setting around, or a drum that is otherwise disabled, let me know, best to all, til...lat'r....GT....;)

I will pray for you!

Gerald, when you get done with the "spring" why don't you go get a rattlesnake to play with?

Hi George!
 

Yes, but by comparison, I think there is a remote chance I could get the rattlesnake in there??...:):eek::eek:........best to you all, til...lat'r....GT

Did it break in the middle or near the end?

I have seen old spiral springs, but don't recall what they were for...clock maybe? Old wind-up time clocks, like used in factories in 1900's...I have one on my wall, four feet high, two key wind-up mechanisms...I knew a guy who repairs them (he even has his own forge/foundry for casting iron parts)...I bought my time clock from him...

breaks!
 

Hi Rich, actually it broke in two spots, and the shorter sister spring is cracked at/near the attach /anchor end? I thought about just making a single leaf spiral spring, but I've not yet figured out the reason behind the stiffener spring about half the length of the main coil spring?? I could grind off the rivet, and shorten it up some and try that.. but until I get more springs as usable parts or samples, I hate to alter this one as I might need to submit it to a spring company to get any further along on this??...:jumper::jumper:.... Best to all, til...lat'r....GT.....:cheers:

Also, I have no idea what preload is required to make it function correctly.. probably put a fish scale on the end of the lever on a good unit to see?....GT
Also, also squared... I can get spring steel coils close enough to make the springs..... but still need to understand design and demands??

One Dumb Question!! How long could a mag be loaded to capasity before it loses its' punch? Are all mags the same? Who made the finest? Eric

not bad question!
 

I would rate them as follows, considering the mags are as designed and new condition.....
1) Any standard mag with my GTHQ follower spring installed, (lifetime!, loaded or not!)
2) New Mec-Gar mags with nylon followers.. I believe spring improved!
3) 06/29 Swiss, top quality, maybe the best Luger mag ever...
4) New code 122 or fxo
5) all the rest?? all the same?? (I've replaced hundreds if not a thousand or more, of springs in these mags..... )
This is just my experience on what I think would stand up to full load storage.. the only one I can guarantee is mine!...;)... best to all, til...lat'r....GT......:cheers:

Gerald, Not long ago George Fortier had one of the new Numrich Arms repro drums come un glued. As I recall he overwound it and the welds broke. You might try to see if he remembers anything about it.

will do!
 

George and I will certainly discus this adventure! Thanks Jerry, til...lat'r....GT;)

:eek:

You might even be able to get the dern spring from numrich gunparts, since they are making new drums. Give them a call and see!

Good luck!

Good idea!
 

I'll try that, if nothing else, they may have a discounted return??....GT ...Thanks Chris!....;)

spring requirments...
 

Hi to all, Ok, we've opened up the Saturday afternoon beer cooler, and the real problem solving can now begin? ..... :jumper::jumper: sooo, I figure, the added sister spring, and the extra long mainspring, have been designed to give the drum an extremely consistent force thru the 200+ degrees of rotation, where it has to perform? I'd love to test an original to see what the tension is thru that slice of the pie.... Best to all, til...lat'r....GT:cheers:
BTW, Eric, keep praying!!!! :)

:DAsk George what his cat Charlie thinks about those mags!:cool:

Tom Heller doesn't have one in his stock of parts??? :confused:

GT, Sorry no snail drum springs in stock, and I doubt that Numrich has them available separately, but may sell you a defective drum for parts. I took one of those "clock work" spring out of a drum once and replaced it, but don't care to try it again. Tom

I'm away from home at the moment, but I have a semi-relic (ok, mostly relic) state drum magazine lying around. The follower spring is long gone, but the flat main spring is still there and it has tension, if I remember correctly. An option perhaps?

drum spring?
 

Hi Gerben! If by "state Drum" you mean 32 round Luger drum Than yes! by all means!...... But, if some other application, it would be better to make new, than to try and alter....:cheers:... I have been hot into the research on making the spring but have a lot to learn prior to submitting specs to a manufacture..... But again, if a good spring for a Luger drum magazine, I'd LOVE to have it!!!! I will certainly make it right by you when received?... Let me know, and, as always, Best to you Gerben, til...lat'r.....GT;)

My address if you have one to send:

Gerald L. Tomek Sr.
316 West Straford Dr.
Chandler, AZ 85225 - 7117
U.S.A.

GT, I'll look into it when I get back home!

(yes, it's a 32 round Bing magazine that has seen much better days)

thanks Gerben!
 

I will put all on hold till you see what's available??...;).. Best to you, til...lat'r.....GT....Thanks again for the effort Gerben......GT:cheers:

GT,

I have no idea what a drum magazine spring looks like, but assuming it is some type of spirally wound flat spring, you might consider finding someone around your area that specializes in repair of antique clocks. They deal with those type of springs all the time and may be able to help find something that might work.....

Just a thought.....

spring woes
 

Hi John, I considered that..but the spring was cracked in several places as well... I think a candidate for replacement... and I'm working toward that end... Thanks for the post though... best to you John, til...lat'r...GT....;)

GT, I understand that it has to be replaced, but some of these old clock repair masters have all sorts of spiral springs in their store of parts (They're almost as bad as luger collectors at hoarding parts....) and may have a spring or spring stock that would work to fashion a replacement......

As I said, just a thought.....

Good luck!!!!!!!!

progress report!
 

Hello to all! Well, I couldn't wait...... There is an old adage, "If you sit in the pilots seat of a 747 long enough, sooner or later, you'll think you can fly it!" ;)... and so it is with Luger drum mainsprings.. I have decided to make them with the tools and skill sets at hand... First I did a feasibility study to determine that there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to ever make a profit! ....:eek:....And then decided that this project was perfectly suited for my business!....;).... I just yesterday ordered the spring material, rivets, and appropriate drill bits to make it possible. We will see what happens after all arrives... There's something about wild spiral flat springs flying through the air with no regard as to safety what'so'ever.. That really brightens up the day! :) More to follow.... best to all, til...lat'r....GT:cheers:

It's on!!!!!!
 

hello to all! Just yesterday.. I received in the mail, 20 pounds of SAE 1075 strip spring steel! It is dimensioned perfect for the task at hand.... I also have acquired the necessary carbide drill bits, and the proper rivet! LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!! ..... :cheers: .. best to all, til....lat'r....GT

BTW, still need, the proper rivet set, and a spring preloading fixture???... Lot's to do, before, I do it??... (oxymoron thing again?) full speed ahead! .....:)

Go Gettum my friend!!!!~Eric

Have you looked into substituting a PPSh spring or one from another drum fed weapon? MR

other springs
 

Hi MR, not at this point, getting the correct length and dimensions on all other aspects of the spring are hard to find out in the wild.... I usually am a stickler to going along with original specs.... And, I have all the correct materials, forward is the only direction now??... Best to you, til...lat'r....GT:cheers:

The relic Bing magazine with a hopefully useful main spring will go out in the mail next week. Just resend me your address details again :)

Up-date!
 

Well, it hasn't gotten any cheaper! I had to replace an $850.00 motor on my Inger. Rand air compressor, to run the new rivet gun I just bought! I have also spent about $150.00 on materials to make the spring winder thingy, and the drill fixture for the different holes needed...:eek:.... But, I'm so excited I can hardly stand it!! .....:eek:... all is coming along perfectly and the drum for Gerben was a great help as to final dimensions and such....We are close... Just like factory! The first spring will be as good as the last! (pretty sure that they will be the same spring!:) ) .....:)... best to all, til...lat'r...GT:cheers:

Let's see 'em!!! :D

Pictures tomorrow!
 

Ok Rich! ......:) ...pictures tomorrow, or, close to, later today! Some one will have to help me get them onto the site??..... :eek:... Not my strong suite! :) Best to all, til...lat'r....GT

Drum Mag exploded view!
 

Hi to all, well for those of you who have never seen what the inside of a drum mag looks like, here you go! Pictures will be posted as soon as I can find one of the moderators to help me! ....:eek:......But, when you see it, you'll get the idea of what the, "Flat spiral spring" boogie man looks like!.....:jumper:... best to all, til...lat'r....GT

PM sent~
 

I will post them, an honor~~ Eric

Hot of the press

Thanks Eric!
 

Thanks Eric! You are a gentleman! ...best to all, til...lat'r...GT...:thumbup:

Drum mag pics number 2
 

The next set of pics shows a relic from the battlefield! It was beyond any practical use, but the dimension check it provided was super helpful... Also, this is what 100 springs looks like prior to being born! And, last but not least, my custom spring winder, twister thingy? Best to all, til...lat'r....GT....:jumper:

Right here gentlemen..you have a stunning display of ingenuity, resourcesfullness, skill, dedication and expense. I have condensed all that into one word..insanity! I am positive GT must feel that way about it sometimes! All I have seen here is WAY beyond my pay grade... not to mention skill level.

... :eek: ...

There will be blood... :p

blood!
 

I think Rich, Rick & Eric have it right! There will be blood! ....:eek:... most likely as the spring material is pretty strong! And the final receptacle is pretty small! ...:jumper:... But as mentioned, if needed, safety capture is pretty simple .. you just need a swinging bar over one small edge part of the diameter pie... What has yet to be done, is: finish the drilling fixture for the 5 total, four different, holes required, and the rivet set block for the truss headed rivet to join the bridle spring to the main spring... If there is enough interest, I will show the "spring making" journey step by step with pictures for the forum... And all the members can then make the 100 year old journey with me! :)... Best to all, til....lat'r.....GT:cheers: