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Is this a naval issued Luger?
I need your help. I believe I have a naval issued luger, North Atlantic?, but need some assistance as I am a babe in the woods with these things.
This is a 1939/42 dual marked with all matching numbers, including grips, firing pin, etc. This has one matching mag which is also marked to match the navy "rack number" I assume which is stamped into the backstrap. It also has the holster which is supposed to be delivered tomorow. This is non import marked but also does not have any capture papers. Oh, and the barrel is perfect, like it has never even been fired. If anyone has additional info please feel free to share, and I greatly appreciate the help http://i.imgur.com/Xbw4eIZ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LTAYomx.jpg http://i.imgur.com/iHJOWRX.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ZhzkZXw.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LmLUrfz.jpg http://i.imgur.com/6pnZ1KA.jpg http://i.imgur.com/5UxyBsk.jpg http://i.imgur.com/sSvdctV.jpg http://i.imgur.com/2OLC5hM.jpg http://i.imgur.com/hi5X2Mv.jpg http://i.imgur.com/uuwRWRZ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/EtAbj8O.jpg http://i.imgur.com/t4XKsa7.jpg http://i.imgur.com/crdXj4M.jpg http://i.imgur.com/5WUkxrO.jpg http://i.imgur.com/KX4tUz1.jpg http://i.imgur.com/N6ekLFu.jpg http://i.imgur.com/yRDi3re.jpg |
Hi Robert, You are correct, you have a Nazi Navy Luger which was issued to the High Seas Fleet based at Wilhelmshaven. That double matched mag is a big plus. Congratulations on a great acquisition.
Regards, Norm |
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The question of it being a faked piece was raised by someone, do you think that is possible with this one? Any other information that may be pertinent?
I will post pictures of the holster once it is in my possession |
Hi Robert, I don't see any evidence of foul play, it looks legit to me.
Regards, Norm |
I'm guessing that it would take a hands-on inspection to be reasonably sure, but even then can an expert be absolutely 100% certain?
It's an interesting dilemma we create once we get so heavily invested in a couple of crudely stamped markings. But, for whatever it is worth, to me it looks good. Actually it looks like a heck of a score...Congratulations. dju |
Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I know nothing of values on these things or history. I tried searching online but there really isn't a lot to go off of. I have a byf '41 I picked up a few years ago and a commercial .30 but that is the extent of my Luger knowledge.
I appreciate the feedback |
Looks good to me.....1939 Navy Lugers are very uncommon!!..are you in Canada?...our troops brought back quite a few Navy marked WW2 Lugers!!!
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LC, no sir I am in Missouri. This came from the man who grabbed it in December 1944.
Thank you for the reply |
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A member here collects 'bringback' stories; this sounds like it could be a good one! :D |
Not much of a story, the guy said stuff was everywhere for the picking basically. No heroic tale (although I think all of those at Normandy were heroic), he just basically "picked them up"
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Navy.?
I confess...I am a total novice when it comes to Lugers......so what made you know it was a Navy Issued.?....I would just like to know in case of 1 in a million I happen on one some day....to me it would be just a "regular army luger"...I would like to know the markings are or what to look for that would tell me it was Navy issued.......which of course would make it even better.....anyway.....just asking....Hans Fischer
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I didn't have an idea it was a navy until I got it home and started searching the internet. While I didn't find another 39/42 I did find other pistols with that same marking on it, the N and property number and they said it was a navy issue. Once I seen that I asked on the forums and it was confirmed that is what those markings stood for. When I bought it I thought it was a nice Luger, no thougts of anything else.
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Norman
I'm not an expert on Navy Lugers BUT to me it looks like a genuine Kriegsmarine Variation, made by MAUSER between April 1939 and 1942, rear frame hump, with its N property number on the back strap, and what convinced me was the serial number included between 200r / 8250z. Congratulations for the acquisition I would say! Sergio |
looks as tho the mauser sn's on the mags do not match but the navy unit marks do matched.
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Hi Ben, Take a closer look. The first mag pictured is non-matching, but the second is a true double match, both it's serial number and it's Naval property number match those of the gun.
Regards, Norm |
Yes one mag matches, the spare one I believe and the other serial does not and the property mark is a few off.
What do you guys think this thing is worth? |
I have seen the term "rear hump". Can you expand on exactly what you are referring to please?
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Look at the gun from the side, noting that right angle of the frame on the rear. Notice that the rear isn't a perfectly straight edge from bottom to top, but slightly bulges back toward the top edge. That "hump" is designed so that the main rear toggle pin can not work its way out during operation. And it was a feature distinctive to Mauser mfg. Lugers in the very late 30's. And it helps us ID a late 30's Mauser frame.
Hope this helps. dju |
Thank you very much David
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Robert
The so called "Mauser hump" is found on the early K/dates (1934), but can be also found more or less throughout the whole K/date production. Last K/dates don't always have it while generally G/dates and 1936 made Lugers do not. Apparently in 1937 the so called "hump" became some sort of standard production procedure. The S/42 (1934-1939) made in 1937 is full of different "variations" with hump and without it. Sergio |
Thank you Sergio. Lot to learn
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Norm/others -
Is there any significance to the dot between/beside the "N" and the rack number on the backstrap??? Is this common among Naval or other 'racked' German weapons??? :confused: |
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Hi Rich, I think that "period" is just a slip on the part of the pantograph operator. Most Nazi era marks do not have periods. Those Naval property marks were not applied at the factory, they were engraved at the dockyard, sometimes rather carelessly.
Regards, Norm |
As far as I know the so called "KRIEGSMARINE VARIATION" should have the "N" property number written crosswise, or the "O." (dotted) property number stamped lenghtwise on front strap.
So, as far as I know the letter "N" should not be dotted, in fact I don't think that mark has anything to do with the Navy property number. IMHO Sergio |
Holster pics
1939 FR.OFFERMANN&SOHN, BENSBERG can barely make out other stamp that is lower and between the belt loops but it is pretty much destroyed, apparently by the leather from the belt rubbing against the leather from the holster and maybe sea spray?. Either way it is a pity. |
Please disregard and close. Thank you
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I missed this, where are the pics? Did the OP already remove them? Why do people do this?
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O.P. apparently removed them on Tuesday. No worldly idea why, but guessing that he sold it.
dju |
I did not sell this pistol, nor do I have intent to.
The thread was pretty much dead with little to no traffic so when I moved the pictures to a folder and it broke the link I did not bother to re-post the images and asked that it be closed. HTH |
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Thanks for the explanation. However we value those photos (and their threads) for future reference. dju |
David,
I understand and want to tell you thank you for your participation in the thread. This thread had 454 views, and 30 responses, 14 of which were from me and 4 of which pertained to a lack of pictures. That was not just this site but another luger forum as well. I suppose I just expected more participation for something like this and maybe that was unrealistic. I sincerely do appreciate everyone who participated and passed information to me but it looks like at this point it is just time for me to buy some books and start reading for myself. Thanks |
This isn't even a week old and it appears pics were taken down after 2 days. There are some who don't visit this site but maybe once a week. There are others who are lurkers and never comment but visit every day. The holidays are here and people are busy with other things. Some of those 454 hits were from people who have no interest in WW2 navies(and couldn't care less) but love the Imperial era and wouldn't know a ww2 Navy if it hit them on the head.There may have been other comments with information that may have been useful to you. Someone may have come along and happen to have an orphan mag that matches your Luger. Like dju said, the pics and comments are a valuable resource for the site(and to the OP if he keeps up with it).
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Alright Steve, I will post the links up but I am not going to participate in the thread any longer, and see if there is an option to shut off receiving pm's and emails from members.
I will leave the pics up as long as I do not need the room on the server so anyone who would like the pics may wish to save them. Happy New Year |
Pics re-posted in 1 and 3.
Please do not pm, or email me offers to buy. |
http://i.imgur.com/9FIlqfi.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xOwvVwq.jpg [http://i.imgur.com/pFH73u1.jpg http://i.imgur.com/rBtOdoM.jpg http://i.imgur.com/dxl8FWv.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8eX5eZC.jpg http://i.imgur.com/E8i2WGf.jpg http://i.imgur.com/1KSeG7E.jpg http://i.imgur.com/TpCCBNn.jpg http://i.imgur.com/R7nFUuO.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ppeMLYW.jpg http://i.imgur.com/lXRo9U0.jpg http://i.imgur.com/toTgzfI.jpg http://i.imgur.com/IbJVVHv.jpg http://i.imgur.com/nvrelra.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ROGzxjP.jpg http://i.imgur.com/6dmMZBI.jpg |
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I'll post your holster pics for posterity. Maybe someone can identify them so this thread won't be a complete waste of time. (Pics posted off-site are lost forever). :thumbup: We enjoyed your pics and comments! Have a great time on your next forum! :bigbye: |
Those are some great photos. Thank you!
Want to sell it? dju PS: Just kidding... |
This is a great instance. Don't know navy pistols, but as a collector once said, "put a good gun on table, the gun speaks for itself" (not exact words), and this gun is such an example.
Did the gun come from an auction? The three pictures (with transparent white background) posted were taken by a professional photographer. Most collectors cannot make gun pictures of this quality at home. I heard M over something was acceptance mark. N followed by number was property mark. |
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