I have two, but not for sale. Just to let you know one is for the .30 luger and one for the 9mm. Make sure you get what you want.

I have an SE-08 that I'm tired of. It is for 9mm, 4" bbl. With the included custom spacer sleeve I made, it has been installed in my 6" 29/70 Mauser. It is complete with original green cardboard box, and is missing only the cleaning rod and literature that might have accompanied it. I'd let 'er go for $550, shipped. Let me know if you want pics.

David Parker

I have never seen one made for the .30 caliber Luger... Could you please post some photos of your two kits??... I would bet that the barrel for the .30 caliber conversion must be pretty darn slim! .311" for .30 caliber, minus .224" for the .22LR, sure doesn't leave much metal thickness for the barrel sleeve, eh !:eek:

Will post photos when I get back to Fl. next month.

I have only heard mention of the .30 Luger variety, and vaguely recall reading something about it's fitting both calibers. As you point out, its walls would be pretty thin, and I also wonder what it would do under pressure of firing. I think it would be OK snugly installed in a 7.65 mm bore, as it would be supported, at least by the lands in the bbl. But an unsupported, skinny wall? This question is certainly justified--40-45 thousandths ain't much! The kits were more popular in Europe, I think, in part because of restrictions on the number of pistols one can own in certain countries. I hope Gerben and Mauro see this and have an answer.

I get .043" wall thickness for the 30 barrel insert...No reason it shouldn't work, I'd think...It would be supported full length...And not all that much pressure... :)

But these 'kits' are definitely ugly when installed... :roflmao:

(A paperclip is .035"...Add two thicknesses of lined notebook paper and you've got .043")...

Rich, thanks for tightening up the math--I did the subtraction and did an estimate of the half. Theoretically, it would be a bit less if you're measuring the bottoms of the grooves. And .035, to me means MIG wire! I know the rest of the action of one of these probably wouldn't hold up for very long using them, but if it were the 6" liner, would you worry about running CCI Stingers through one? This round is responsible for three broken front toggles on three different 60s' Erma .22s.

You are right - I used John Sabato's dimensions. D'OH!!! :grr:

I get ..299" [7.6mm] for my 'insert diameter' (actual measurement). And with .224" bullet diameter [bottom of groove], that gives .037" wall thickness for the 30 cal insert.

Paper clip thickness. :D

BTW: Here's a pic of the 9mm/.22LR conversion 'kit' that I dug up somewhere, showing all parts. :rolleyes:

I usually only shoot Remington 'Target' 22LR, bought by the brick. Because of the ammunition freeze, I could only get Remington Viper Hyper Velocity 22's, which my Ruger does not like. But even with that, I could only buy 2 boxes [100rds]. My LGS still has no ammunition shipments coming in since UPS now charges a Hazardous Shipment charge [$40] IN ADDITION to their regular shipping charges. And the distributors aren't ordering it. :soapbox:

Short answer - I've never tried it. :(

Dave, is there any physical difference in Stinger dimension from a 'standard' .22 Long Rifle??? I am just reading here that the .22 rimfire is the only round with a bullet diameter the same as the case diameter...So the chamber depth is greater than in a centerfire cartridge. To cut a .22 LR chamber you have to add the bullet 'shoulder' length to the case length, minus the rim width...Because the .22 LR headspaces on the inside of the rim...And the headspace is kinda critical because if there's not enough, it goes "brrrrppppppp"... :D

I'm trying to measure the chamber depth in my .22's but the case wall is so thin and I only have a 7/32" drill bit to slide down the chamber...I can't get a good measurement...Somewhere around .761" is what I get... :(

The guy who owns this one wants me to shorten the barrel insert, so it ends at the muzzle... :)

I'm almost done...Got the shortened insert threaded...Just have to make a nut... ;)

Dave, I'm thinking that back when Erma made these conversions, the .22 LR cartridges were pretty puny compared to Hyper Velocity .22's of today...they had to add that extra 1 1/2" to the .22 barrel insert to get the toggle to function with the lower pressure cartridges back then...Now, that Stinger would be too much pressure for the full-length .22 barrel insert...Shortening it should bleed off enough pressure to let it toggle the action but not hammer the crap out of it... :)

Hmmm...

OAL of a Stinger is basically the same, however case length is approx. 0.10 longer. The 32 gr bullet (v. 40 gr) would be a tad shorter, right? The conversion is s blow-back action--how would this affect pressure in the barrel? The Stingers were effective in breaking toggles in both the 4" and 12" barreled models. CCI Velocitors' velocity is in between Stingers and Mini-Mags, so that's another choice, if you think the shortened liner would work with them. I'll never again use anything more potent than the Mini-Mags in these Ermas, whether pistol or kit.

This kit in your pic is the SE-08/2, which has the knurled toggle knobs--much more attractive than the stubs of the earlier models. It reverts, however, to the replacement ejector v. feed lip ejector, and the replacement axle with its bushings, as in the versions made up until the end of WWII.

The shortened liner setup does look a little less goofy.

Here's a pic of mine. The other pic is my Ibanez P-bass knock-off, finally complete. It was missing the "ashtray" covers when I bought it 20 some years ago. The frets were literally falling out, and I installed new ones and leveled them, then had the Ithaca Guitar Works crown them and do the final setup. I had looked for replacement covers back then, to no avail, at the local shops--one even specialized in vintage stuff, and the Ibanez dealer couldn't help either. The internet makes such searches a lot easier, and I was able to come up with a OEM set by Fender for twenty bucks shipped, in about ten minutes.

So the Stinger is actually longer than a .22 Long Rifle??? Here's the SAAMI print; cartridge on top, chamber on bottom. The bullet is the same diameter as the case so the [smoothbore] chamber is longer than say a 9mm Luger chamber...To accommodate the same-diameter-as-case bullet...

So a Stinger chamber would have to be longer than a Long Rifle chamber, to accommodate the longer case + bullet...

And it stands to reason that if a Stinger is longer, it won't fit in a .22 LR chamber...Like a Ruger Mk II...

Dave, that .22 conversion unit of yours is quite different from the 4" unit that I have here...Obviously the barrel insert is longer [lots longer] but the toggle assembly is completely different...

Without the spacer, the insert I have here would just barely fit a 5 1/4" barrel...Which would be a 130+mm Luger 9mm barrel...If there ever was such a thing...

The 'cocked' indicator is a hoot... :D

Stinger in silver case and copper plated HP 32 gr. bullet 1640 fps v. Remington Target in brass, 40 gr.LRN 1150 fps. OAL 1.182 and 1.186. respectively. The shape of the end of the slug makes the Stinger look longer, and maybe foreshortening in the pic.

The case is what's longer, but since the round's O.D. is constant overall, as mentioned, this would not require chamber mod. They are labeled 22lr and chamber just fine.

You're right, the rod sticking out the back when the sear is set is funky. It would indicate that it's cocked, but not indicate whether there is a round in the chamber.

Without the adapter sleeve my liner would fit a barrel around 7" long, stopping short of being OK for an Arty barrel.

I took a ride down to my LGS and he agrees: .22LR chambers will fit a Stinger. That's cool, because I have a .22LR chambering reamer coming.

I also bought a box of .22LR 'Aguila' Super Extra [with label on box 'Eley Prime', whatever that means], 50 rd box @ $5.00. He had one brick of that come in from distributor, and a brick of .22 Subsonic ammunition, that looked like a .22 short with a real long bullet. I didn't think that would work any .22 action I have, so I left that alone. (I don't have any bolt action .22's or revolvers).

I was thinking that the Erma barrel inserts are longer than the Luger barrels because it would take longer to build up the pressure to toggle the action than if they made it the same length as the Luger barrel...

Dave - Does your Erma toggle have a model number on it??? This one says 'SE 08/2'...

Edit: I went back and bought a box of the 'Sniper Subsonic' .22's...Looks like a .22 short to me!!! :D

(And in the 15 minutes I was gone, someone came in and bought the rest of the .22LR brick)... :eek:

I did a search last night -

This is the first time I have ever seen a subsonic cartridge with a bullet like that. I have a couple of different brands of subsonic .22 ammo here, and the bullet on them looks like a normal 40gr bullet. Interesting!!.

I think these slugs are around 60 gr., which helps diminish the velocity to somewhere in the vicinity of 1000 fps, + or -.

Ely is another ammo manufacturer. I think Aguila gets primed brass from them, or at least uses Ely's formula, probably under license. The various ammo makers' arrangements and manifestations seem a bit incestuous at times...

Since bullet and case of any .22lr share the same O.D, it should be no problem. It's the OAL that matters; I'm presuming that where the cone/taper/roundness ends on of all of their bullets is engineered to appear at the same distance from the rim, and thus will all fit in the .22lr chamber.

Nope, just "Erma" in a circle on the breech block. There is a groove in the top surface of the front toggle link which precludes placement of anything stamped there. Mine is the SE-08 model, immediate precursor of yours, and they are both post-war in vintage.

Ed, the Mini-Mag data on this sheet is for the HP, which my pistols don't seem to like, failures to feed. Different muzzle velocity than the CPRN, too--a bit faster, 'cause it's a 36 gr.

Yes, that is what it says on the box. The bullet itself feels and looks strange; like it has a plastic sheath on it... :confused:

I had always thought that rimfire primer was just mixed & poured around the circumference of the shell, but reading on another site, they said that the primer is a string/ribbon coiled along the rim of the shell...

That kinda makes sense. I've taken apart old British .303 cartridges and was fascinated by the cordite 'rope' in each cartridge...Seems easier to manage, just measure a length & cut it and stick it in the case...No weighing! :evilgrin:

That's what I remember from taking them apart. The primer seemed to be a dried green crust down in there. Forty years ago I survived the task of scraping it out of a bunch of cases, and the resulting powder, along with the gunpowder, guts from a bunch of small firecrackers, and some crunched up match heads, inside one of those little Bayer aspirin tins, bound up by an entire roll of masking tape, made an interesting device to light and toss out the dorm window, for sure.
(Also prepared a batch of ammonium iodide, which was a blast [pun intended]! The best one, for the show of it, was a small oil can full of equal parts, IIRC, sugar and saltpeter, with contact wires to a broken flash bulb imbedded therein with its filament exposed, and the spout of crimped to hold the wires. The entire device disappeared, and some of the guys in the dining hall reported the entire woods lit up momentarily by the flash, opposite the big room's wall of windows. No one hurt, nothing damaged, fortunately. Amazing how the young mind amuses itself...)

Here's a couple pics of the SE 08/2 Erma 9mm 4"bbl 'kit'...

Maybe some of the other owners could post pics of their kits (other than the 4" SE 08/2)... :cheers:

(And a big 'Thanks!' to Ed Tinker for making this a stand-alone conversion thread!) :thumbup:

I read, way back when, in Playboy, that an acceptable version of napalm was 2/3 Duz dishwashing detergent and 1/3 gasoline, in a glass wine bottle, with a Tampon taped on the outside...A home made 'Molotov Cocktail'...Haven't had the urge to try it out yet... :o

The nasty nature of napalm is that it will stick and burn. The dish soap would make it sticky for sure, though I'm not sure if the mixture will emulsify. You could update the recipe by using Dawn, and clean off some oily wildlife with the excess detergent!

I think engineering schools probably contain the highest proportion of students interested in explosives. My brother went to RPI, and had a frat brother who was missing fingers from his high school days, when a timer malfunctioned on a device he was setting off in the Troy High parking lot.

Best description I ever heard for Napalm was "jellied" gasoline... I just never bothered to find out what they use to turn the gas into a loose gelatin... soap? Really? DUZ?

(...and for you young whipper/snappers... Duz, a powdered laundry soap and later, a powdered laundry detergent which had glassware and plates in each box; last made in 1980.)

I use Palmolive, have for decades...Never used Duz...I recall the recipe only because it was so out of place in a gentlemen's magazine...Along with sci-fi novels ("The Fly")... :)

Liquid soap would seem to be more appropriate for a jellied exfoliate...But that's my memory of the recipe... :(

BTW, .22LR headspaces on the RIM, not the cartridge mouth, so case length is irrelevant... Overall length (OAL)? that is a different story...

If I remember right, Bob Tracy besides using Agent Orange, helped mix up Napalm - they had big barrels of powered soap, I think so it would mix better - seem to remember it was gas / diesel and soap - gas for quick burn, diesel for slowing it down and saop made it stick on 'things'... nasty stuff, google says:

nasty stuff - please shoot me...

True story - Back in 1967/8, I drove to work in Tonawanda NY past a factory named Riverside Chemical. They had stockpiles of palletized 55 gal drums, olive drab, with thin colored rings around the circumference. Some were orange, some red, and some purple. An AFRES co-worker told me they were the infamous Agent Orange defoliants.

Riverside Chemical either quietly went out of business or moved, sometime in the 70's. The land was bulldozed flat. It was still unoccupied, the last time I went by, a few years ago.

The print says .875" chamber...I like to keep the freebore to a minimum...I measured a Remington Viper cartridge + bullet at .760"...That seems like a lot of freebore... :confused:

Polystyrene?!! Holy mackerel! Once alight, it drips and sticks and keeps on burning. I'm with Ed!

Back in the 50's, I used to set alight those 3" green plastic soldiers that were common among us kids. I had the scars on my hands for dozens of years. Along with the oval burn scar on my right calf from Norton/Triumph exhaust pipes. :D

Are these .22 conversion kits semi-auto or do you have to manually work the bolt, err, toggle? And which kits are more desirable?

Got the reamer in today...Won't have occasion to use it for a few days yet...

I had to smile when I unpacked it...All my other reamers are a universal length; this one is about 2/3 size...I guess they didn't want to waste all that steel... :rolleyes:

I had a chance to shoot the Erma SE 08/2 .22 kit today, Mounted on my commercial P-08.

Loaded one 22LR round in the magazine, racked the toggle. Round chambered OK. Pulled the trigger; round went off OK. Spent case ejected OK. It also ejected the extractor, extractor plunger, and extractor plunger spring. Not good. :(

I found all three pieces. The spring & plunger just fell off to the side; the spent case and the extractor itself were 20 feet downrange.

Anyone else have this happen??? I have an email asking the previous owner if he had any such instance, but I think he would have mentioned it.

Note: None of the pieces were damaged. They just came apart. I suspect the ammunition was 'too hot'. The Erma documents don't specify the type or velocity of ammunition. I'm going to try to find some 22 Target rounds (~1,000fps) and see how that works.

Definitely for use with only standard velocity rounds. Hot .22 ammo didn't exist when the unit was designed...

Chamber insert is finished; conversion assembled. I drove quite a bit out of my way and found some CCI 40gr LRN 'standard velocity' "Target" ammunition...$8.99/50rds... :soapbox:

I'll see how far that ammunition will throw the extractor tomorrow... :rolleyes:

If that still causes issues, would sub-sonic rounds be the next step?

I dunno...But I bought a box! :D