Gonzo Long Barreled P08 Projects
 

Disclaimer: I am not a craftsman or an artisan; I'm not a gunsmith or master machinist. I'm just a blue-collar gun hack. My work is crude and minimalist; no frills, no polish, nothing to be especially proud of. I don't have the years or thousands of dollars to wait for a master craftsman to make me what I want. So, I do it myself. It's not beautiful, but as the bard says, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". I can look at 50 feet of railroad track and think it's beautiful. Like National Lampoon has proclaimed: "Creosote is King!" :)


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This is the latest in my series of Gonzo long barreled military handguns. The previous two being based on the profile, dimensions, and rear sight of the LP-08 'Artillery' Luger pistol. This one is actually based on the P08 Luger, but the barrel will be longer than the 'artillery' model, and the rear sight selection is still undecided.

This particular project was inspired by a 'prototype' 7.63 C96 Mauser-chambered conversion done by Herbert Werle some time back and sold on Hermann-Historica. It uses a shortened 7.65 caliber Mauser rifle barrel with OEM front and rear rifle sights, adapted to the Luger frame, and re-chambered. I kind of liked the idea, but the sights are a bit too big for me, and I'm not fond of stepped barrels.

Here's two pics of Werle's excellent conversion -

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...7&d=1418742706

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...8&d=1418742706

I'm going to emulate his idea, but slightly different. :)

First pic is of some of the available parts I have on hand.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...2&d=1407353178

Two barrels are Remington 700 30-06 cal barrels; one is a Winchester 30-06 Mod 70. The resulting long barrel Luger will be chambered in 7.65 Parabellum [30 Luger]. The top [Winchester] barrel has already been fitted with several rear sight assemblies. The top pic has an 1891 Argentine Mauser carbine rear sight fitted. The front sight and band is from the 1891 Mauser carbine as well. Shown below that barrel is an FN M24/30 Mauser carbine rear sight, a Luger artillery rear sight with two different dovetail mounts, and a Martini Cadet rear sight.

The [Winchester] barrel shown with the 1891 Carbine sights mounted has already been chambered for 7.65 Parabellum and threaded to fit the Luger P-08 receiver pictured.

Next pic is of the above mentioned barrel with the 1891 carbine rear sight mounted [top] and the FN rear sight [below]

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...3&d=1407353178

Both will fit (22mm barrel) as will the dovetail mount in the pic above this one. At this point, I am leaning toward the 1891 Carbine sight but the FN Carbine sight is more attractive and quite similar to the Luger Artillery rear sight in construction. I'm considering shortening both the sight leaf and the mount and utilizing that sight.

The four pics consolidated below show the first stages of the barrel machining.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...4&d=1407353178

(1) Barrel segment is approximately 13" long, and has been turned to 19.5mm [.768"] dia for the rear sight band and the breech stub is being turned/threaded to ~.709" dia/20tpi thread.
(2) Breech being faced off and clearance cut for receiver, length of .740".
(3) Beginning cutting the 7.65 Parabellum chamber. Clymer reamer, 1/32" cuts, lots of high-Sulphur content cutting oil, back out & blow chips off every 1/32" cut.
(4) Chamber rough finish cut. Chamber will be hand cut for headspace after torquing to the receiver.

Edit: Numrich has a listing for the base for my Martini 310 Cadet rear sight [shown below on a base]. I ordered one, and if it works, I'm thinking of using that rather than the Mauser/Luger tangent sights. It's both elevation and drift adjustable. :)

I could not find a Martini rear sight, so I decided to go with the shortened FN carbine sight.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...9&d=1417972673

(5) Rough chambering for 7.65 Parabellum pretty much finished.
(6) Cutting back the shoulder for sight base 'sleeve' mounting.
(7) Sectioning the FN carbine rear sight base/sleeve.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...5&d=1418099842

(8) Shortened FN carbine rear sight base/sleeve, shortened barrel shoulder.
(9) Barrel re-tapered, rough cut.
(10) Taper section polished, muzzle tip turned down for threading.
(11) Front sight base blank being faced off.

Pretty boring stuff now, but I include it for continuity... :rolleyes:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...6&d=1418175491

(12) Drilling out sight base blank.
(13) Tapping sight base blank to 1/2" x 28tpi.
(14) Threading muzzle tip to 1/2" x 28tpi. Bevel linking barrel taper to rear sight base is also cut (10º).
(15) Completed thread.

Next up is torquing the barrel down, machining a locating flat on the barrel, and machining the front sight base & band.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...7&d=1418439113

(16) Front sight base blank fitted to muzzle thread.
(17) Barrel has been torqued into receiver; flat milled on top of rear sight hood.
(18) Spirit method of indexing the barrel to the receiver using the milled flat.
(19) Flat is now milled on top of leveled front sight blank. This is how I'll level the front sight with the receiver.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...7&d=1418509193

(20) Front sight blank has been trimmed on the bandsaw and mounted on an old M16 barrel stub. Beginning to mill it round.
(21) A look at the somewhat clumsy setup. What a PITA! Cranking the indexing head ~270º every .040". And I got the crank in an awkward position... :eek:
(22) Close-up of the first couple of revolutions, milling the muzzle relief.
(23) Completed the circular cutting; now to mill the sight base.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...8&d=1418509193

(24) Switched from a short 1/4" 4-flute end mill to a long one. Base/band came out pretty nice. :)
(25) Close-up of last cut.
(26) Close-up of base/band installed [loosely].

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...9&d=1418509320

Side view of how it might look...If I don't screw it up... :rolleyes:

I now find that I need to make a keyhole spanner to torque my front sight base on & off with...Using 5/8" aluminum plate, hole bored to ~.640" and a ~.290" slot...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...8&d=1419030479

(27) Hole was drilled to 1/2", slot milled, and hole bored out to ~5/8"+.
(28) Closeup of front sight base in keyhole spanner.
(29) Torquing the front sight base to the barrel with the keyhole spanner. Spirit levels used to align the two.
(30) Spanner removed; checking level again with level on top flat of front sight base.

Next up is facing off the muzzle and crowning.


http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...1&d=1420147060

(31) Muzzle face has been turned in lathe, slight chamfer cut on edge of muzzle, crown being cut.
(32) Barrel has been torqued on receiver/barrel extension; rear sight located, holes drilled for #4-40 screws, front sight base torqued on, hole drilled for #4-40 setscrew and being tapped in this pic.
(33) Angle plate has been mounted on mill table at 58º; barrel has been removed from receiver/barrel extension and leveled in barrel vise clamp; bolted perpendicular to table in preparation of milling extractor notch.
(34) Making first extractor cut with .093" Woodruff keyseat cutter.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...2&d=1420147060

(35) Second extractor cut with .200" Woodruff keyseat cutter.
(36) Cutting feed ramp with 10mm end mill. Barrel held in barrel vise clamps which are in turn held in angle vise set at 50º. My thanks to Gerry Tomek for his sleuth work in determining the correct angle!
(37) Just a closeup of the finished ramp cut.
(38) Torquing the receiver on the barrel again, to check extractor clearance in receiver/barrel extension.

I've received a donor frame, I'll be prepping that for a forearm lug soon. Couple other things need doing on the barrel, plus the rear sight leaf needs shortening. Always something. :)

Interlude

Off-topic, but worth relating...I was milling an aluminum block square earlier in the week, idly watching the end mill spin around in the spindle and the feed table move slowly along, keeping an occasional eye on the TV on the shelf above me, when the air compressor in the corner suddenly kicked in...It took about half a second for me to lunge forward and disengage the feed before the circuit breaker cut power to the 3in1 mill...The 3in1 has two 8.8A motors, one for the mill spindle and the other for the lathe/table feed...The compressor motor is 15A...All plugged into a 12/2 w/gnd wired circuit with a 20A breaker...

So today I ran 10/2 w/gnd to the 3in1 with a 30A breaker and moved the compressor to a 20A breaker. I usually know enough to run the compressor and build up a reserve and switch it off before running the 3in1, but this time I forgot. If the power cuts off while I'm cutting with the feed on, it can be disastrous to the workpiece and expensive to replace the broken cutter. Better to be safe now than sorry later.

Here's the finished breech - Extractor notch cut; feed ramp milled; barrel torqued in place.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...6&d=1420594968

When I received my donor frame, a ~1939-era Mauser 'humpback', I test-fit my 1917 'cannon' assembly on it...It 'bound' in the rear frame 'ear' area. Measurements showed about .010" of squish-in. Maybe from being dropped, or some previous owner trying to 'accurize' it, or maybe just from the heat-treat during manufacture. I didn't want to try bending 70+ year old hardened steel, and .010" isn't all that much, so I decided to use progressively finer grits of lapping compound to take it down. Starting with very coarse valve grinding compound, finishing up with auto body polishing compound. Worked excellently! :)

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...9&d=1420596108

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...0&d=1420596108

Next up was to fabricate a 'lug' for the forearm I'll be installing. This will be somewhat like a Luger carbine forearm.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...4&d=1420601912

(39) Sawing the lug out of steel bar, milling all sides flat and parallel.
(40) Milling top flat and parallel.
(41) Milling bottom flat and parallel.
(42) Semi-finished lug.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...5&d=1420601912

(43) Rube Goldberg jig/fixture to hold lug in position for drilling & tapping frame.
(44) Center drilling the lug.
(45) Drilling for #4-40 screw.
(46) Tapping the drilled hole. This will hold the lug in position while being soldered.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...6&d=1420602076

(47) Lug has been positioned for silver-soldering.
(48) Lug has been silver-soldered in position, using Brownell's Silvalloy 355 and Wolverine Ultra Flux. This turned out to be a mistake. This solder has too high a melting point for a procedure like this, despite Brownell's claims/ads. I should have followed my instincts/experience and gone down to my local welding shop and bought some low-melting point brazing rod. It's been 30+ years since I've done any brazing/silver-soldering and I've forgotten most of What Works. This is on now, and I just hope it sticks.
(49) Milling off the attaching/positioning screw head.
(50) Re-drilling the takedown lever spring drift hole.

Next step will be to trim the excess solder and start fitting the wood for the forearm.

Most of the excess silver-solder has been filed/milled off, and now I want to check out how to fit the forearm wood. My woodworking skills are minimal, so I'm going to practice on at least one scrap piece of wood before I sacrifice a rifle stock for my forearm.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...0&d=1420932286

(51) Scrap piece of 2x4 soft Pine.
(52) Fully inletted and ready to trial fit.
(53) Not bad. A bit oversized, but acceptable.
(54) Closeup of inletted forearm with lug fitted.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...1&d=1420932286

Side view of mockup forearm, off and on. Doesn't look like much, does it? Took me about four hours to get it this far. Shame I didn't have a piece of nice Walnut instead of Pine, but them's the breaks. I'll have to mill out the rifle stock donor piece differently, since it won't be squared-off like this nice piece is. I have a couple old sawed-off buttstock pieces, rounded off, I'll have to think up a way to hold them in the vise for inletting.

Dug out a couple of old Walnut stocks from my 'parts box'. Top is 3/4 of an Ithaca Model 37 shotgun stock, bottom is [IIRC] a buttstock for the MAC-10, which I never owned but thought the stock might come in handy [Numrich of course]. I'm just squeezing the buttstock half between two plywood pieces in my vise...It seems to hold it OK. I'd rather I had a squared-off piece of hardwood, but for the little I need, this might work...maybe...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...4&d=1421109768

(55) Ithaca on top; MAC-10 on bottom. Mildewed, and Ithaca has a 3/4" hole drilled through it for the bolt.
(56) Fully 'inletted' with metal working end mills. I don't have any woodworking tools. I'm not a woodworker (as will become apparent).
(57) Inletted mockup placed on stripped frame/action. Profile needs to be taken down quite a bit and shaped, but this is just a practice forearm - the 3/4" bolt groove leaves too much gap on barrel sides. Other half of Ithaca buttstock will be Forearm Attempt #1...
(58) 1st Attempt at an actual Walnut forearm. Barrel channel and rear sight cavity have been milled out with a 5/8" ball end mill. This is the other half of the Ithace Model 37 shotgun buttstock, without the 3/4" bolt hole through it.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...1&d=1421172380

(59) Fully inletted forearm blank. Came out pretty good, although again, a lengthy tedious process.
(60) Top & side views; wood has yet to be pared down to desired profile. That comes next.
(61) Top view comparing Ithaca bolt hole (my barrel channel) with 1st Attempt barrel channel. The 1st Attempt is ~5/8" whereas the Ithaca bolt hole is ~3/4". Doesn't look like it, but it makes a big difference. I'll continue practicing on the 3/4" channel forearm blank for now.
(62) I've done a bit of mill-profiling on the 3/4" channel blank. Starting to look like a forearm. :)

My next step will be trying to figure out a way to hold the inletted forearm so that I can file/sand the squared edges. I'm thinking of an aluminum bar that fits tightly into the lug slot and extends beyond the ends. Have to check and see what I've got.

I found an old piece of 1/2" aluminum bar/plate and milled it to be a snug fit in the forearm inletting. Now I can clamp the inletted forearm in the vise for more milling, :) I'm working on the '1st Attempt' forearm here; the one with the tight 5/8" barrel channel.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...4&d=1421871714

(63) Using a 5/8" end mill to cut the 'Schnabel' curl. Also milling the taper on each side of the forearm.
(64) Milling the bottom of the forearm, up to the curl.
(65) Flipped over; scrap piece of aluminum & a shim in forearm, milling the top flat.
(66) Top view showing taper; side view showing profile.

Waiting for new end mills, cutters, and other miscellaneous tooling, so I'm switching over to the rear sight modifications. ;)

I'm using the M24/30 FN Mauser carbine rear sight but I'm going to shorten the sight leaf. I found out the hard way that it is hardened. :grr: Anyway, after cleaning up pieces of broken end mills, I managed to use a Carbide end mill to mill the end and pivot slot of the sight leaf.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...5&d=1421871907

(67) Slot is already milled; milling end down.
(68) Shortened sight leaf on left; original sight assembly on right for comparison.
(69) This is why I hate micro-machining. I can barely see what I'm doing [which is milling .014" off each side of the pivot ears] and I can't get any feedback from the big heavy toolholder/vise/table feed. This is a 1/8" Carbide end mill.
(70) Another part I hate: Filing the square-cut ears round. My files are barely hard enough to cut the hardened sight leaf. :mad: Lots of filing and fitting; I want it to work, but also minimize the gaps. This ain't no work for an old man. :banghead:

Next I need to cut the FN carbine sight ramp down to match the shortened sight leaf. This is a complicated procedure, involving calculating the bullet weight & shape, the powder charge and powder composition, the barrel length and rifling twist, bullet drop in meters, the curvature of the earth, local variations in gravity, Pythagorean theorem, Sine, Cosine, Tangents...Ah, screw it. I'm just going to make a flattened ramp. :D

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...4&d=1421984937

(71) Milling down the back of the ramp to match the height of the barrel extension.
(72) The FN Mauser spring is way too strong for my taste; it's ~1/4" wide x .040" thick...so I dip into Brownell's flat spring assortment, the thinnest is .030", so I'll use that. ;)
(73) The Brownell's flat spring stock is .500" wide, so I mill it down to ~.025". I clamped it to a piece of scrap aluminum.
(74) Finished spring shown next to FN Mauser spring. Next is to harden it.

I have other things going on at the same time as I work on this; some use different jigs/fixtures/vises, so I'll be jumping around on the machining...

I'm going to mill the front sight base down and cut the dovetail. I've clamped the barrel assembly between plywood boards to get a 'soft' clamp, and use a reinforcing rod in the bore just to be safe.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...9&d=1422655591

(75) Barrel/sight base is leveled and squared; ready to cut down.
(76) Sight base has been shortened/milled ~.250".
(77) 1/8" x .100" slot milled in center for dovetail.
(78) 40º dovetail cut into sight base, .100" deep. It is .197" wide at base.

I'll be making a sight blade for it next. I'm debating making it out of Delrin or steel...I may do both. The Delrin is quicker to make and can be slightly wider in the dovetail since it has some elasticity, which would make it easier to adjust and also stay fixed in position...

I've sawn a blank out of a piece of scrap steel. This will be the front sight blade.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...2&d=1423357979

(79) Milling the bottom of the steel blank.
(80) Milling the 40º dovetail.
(81) Sight blank has been pressed into the dovetail in the barrel. Now I am milling the sides flat and level with the front sight base.
(82) All four sides milled flat and level. I hate machining anything this fragile. :grr: One mistake trashes hours/days of work.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...3&d=1423357979

(83) Milling the sides of the sight to form a blade .120" wide. Using a radius end mill.
(84) Milling the sight blade at an angle to mimic the Finnish front sight blades used on Finnish Lugers and Lahtis.
(85) Mockup of barrel assembly and unfinished forearm. It looks odd. :rolleyes:

To all interested members who have wondered if this project has died, it has not. It is temporarily on hold until such time as finances and interest resume.

A member of the other forum approached me about a project that ended in a major disaster some years ago. He wanted a 9mm Walther P1 barrel liner removed and a 30 Luger stepped liner installed. I did a test barrel and it worked out very well. I then did two more and managed to burn out a set of HSS drill bits and a reamer. I upgraded to Cobalt and the next one turned out quite acceptable. I've done several more. Still waiting for a review. :rolleyes:

Interlude
 

...Sometimes, it just won't work... :(

I thought it would be neat to make my P-08 rear toggle knobs 'dished', like the M1900 toggle knobs. So, I took measurements from side-on and top-on photos and figured out that the 'dishes' were cut 10º from the vertical axis. I also figured that to give me a straight-in cut with my end mill, I need to angle my mill vise 16 1/2º from the horizontal axis. My vise is adjustable, so that took care of the 16 1/2º, and I made up a fixture to hold the toggle at the required 10º [Pic below].

I had previously test-fit various shot glasses, jelly jars, lids for whatever I had that used lids, and determined the diameter of the M1900 dish to be 50mm/~2". My biggest end mill is 1 1/2", used to mill off flash on AR-15 lower receivers. Anything bigger would run several hundreds of dollars, which I wasn't eager to spend for 'dishes'. The 1 1/2" end mill would have to do.

When I got it all completed and set up, it didn't look right. After many years of machining, I have a rough eye for what I am doing. This wasn't right.

It turns out the M1900 toggle/knobs are .150" wider than the P-08 knobs. That threw my straight-in measurement off. I'd need to increase my angle. But then the dish wouldn't be right - the cutter is too small for the narrower knobs. The dish wouldn't look right.

I could mill the dish flat, instead of concave. But that's not right either.

In the end, I shelved the 'toggle dishing project' due to lack of tooling. A few days wasted making the fixture and taking measurements.

Sometimes you eat the bear...Sometimes the bear eats you... :rolleyes:

Second Interlude
 

First pic -

While pawing through my tool collection I noticed I had a 1 1/2" carbide tipped dovetail cutter left over from some obscure one-time project...So I decided to have another go at dishing the toggle knobs... :p

The toggle chosen is one left over from some other project <sigh>. I clamped my 'fixture' in my mill vise and 'bored' the toggle dishes. Time consuming and fairly apprehensive, as I had visions of carbide inserts flying around the shop... :eek:

But it turned out OK, machining-wise. Still the wrong diameter, and leaving enough metal for the rail contact surface didn't allow much to be machined off, but at least the concept is proven. :rolleyes:

I guess that the bear and I are about even on this one. :thumbup:

Second pic -

I was contacted by a forum member who was interested in a 'dished' toggle, so I ordered a carbide shell end mill cutter plus arbor. It should be in shortly. :)

The 2 1/2" Carbide fluted shell end mill came in; I finished my 'prototype' P08 dished toggle... :rolleyes:

Very slow milling; 10º angle from horizontal; plunge milled. I retained the ~.156" contact patch for the frame ramp. The arc of the scallop is not as great as an M1900 due to the M1900 being .150" wider in the knob area.

Came out OK; there were a few tool marks but sanding with 220 wet-or-dry wrapped around a suitable mandrel took them out pretty quick.

Visually not as impressive as the wider M1900 toggle, but it's different... :p

Back to working on the long-barrel Luger again. :)

Getting the parts ready to be shipped off to be blued. Toggle and rear sight are now done; nothing left for me to work on except forearm. ;)

(86) Cutting the Patridge-style notch in the Mauser rear sight leaf.
(87) Milling off some of the rifle graduations
(88) Making a fixture to hole the forearm so I can file/sand it
(89) Milling a slot in the forearm for the brass inlay to fasten the forearm

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...3&d=1450327140

I don't have any woodworking tools to speak of, and I don't have a bench or 'pony' to clamp work to, so I have to make up some kind of fixture to hold the forearm while I file/sand it. I made one out of aluminum bar, need to fasten the ends somehow. :rolleyes:

(90) Milling a piece of brass for the forearm inlay
(91) Inlay fitted to the forearm slot
(92) Inlay milled down and drilled & counterbored for the attaching screws
(93) Milling the 'coves' in the forearm, using a 1/2" ball end mill

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...7&d=1450381802

(94) Milling the other 'cove'
(95) Milling right side flat, in a elliptical shape
(96) How that flat looks
(97) Test fit on frame

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...8&d=1450472513

Trying to do as much machine work on the forearm as possible. :)

(98) "Blending" the brass inlay with the forearm bottom.
(99) Using a 1/2"R corner-rounding end mill to round the bottom of the forearm. This is my test piece, and it actually turned out quite well (surprisingly!). :D
(100) I'm doing a lateral move now. I'm OK with the forearm I have so far, but there are always different ways to achieve the same end, and I want to explore a couple of these. I'm trying to use my machine tools as much as possible. So, in this pic, I'm corner-rounding the Pine forearm I used as a test piece and tapering the corner at the same time.
(101) Now I'm using a straight 3/4" end mill to side-cut the forearm to taper it from rear to front by 1/4" total [1/8" each side].

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...3&d=1450810520

(102) I noticed I have some kind of burr or rasp or whatever that has a taper to it, so I'm experimenting to see how it would work on the top of the forearm, to help give it the 'rounded' cross-section that the Luger forearms seem to have.
(103) Here's a shot of the semi-completed Pine forearm. Besides final sanding, the only real area that needs more work is the 'Schnabel' tip. The corner-rounding end mill couldn't go full length, so I have to figure out some way to blend in the curve. I may use my rotary indexing head... :rolleyes:
(104) Woohoo! Got all my metal pieces back from the refinishing. All blued except the 6 pieces at the bottom; they have been strawed. Excellent work! :D
(105) Assembling the mainspring in the frame. Frame clamped to mill worktable so it won't move, and cotter pin puller used to compress spring. Works great! :)

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...0&d=1454768414

Another Interlude
 

I'm still contemplating on how to form my forearm, so in the meantime I decided to clean up my workbench of projects that have languished over the last couple of years... ;)

The first pic is an 80% M1911 with a Bo-Mar Tuner Rib attached. The slide is a Numrich item while the 'parts kit' came from Sarco. There's a couple aftermarket and OEM Colt parts thrown in for good measure. Haven't shot it yet; no 45 target ammunition available. :(

Second pic is three Luger-style barrels. The top is an original Luger M1900 7.65mm barrel which was purchased from a forum member and was found to be 'squished' .020" in the middle, probably from being incorrectly [wrong or no tools] removed. I was able to obtain a ground drill blank in the correct size and slowly form it back to round shape with a planishing hammer. That left some marks, along with the 100+ year old nicks & scratches, so I used Ithacaartist's method of filing it on a lathe, insread of my usual single-point cutting. It worked out surprisingly well. :)

Bottom barrel of the second pic is a 1916 Bohler barrel included for comparison purposes. It's my 'control' barrel. ;)

The middle barrel is a 3" 9mm Green River blank which I tried to profile to 'pocket Luger' shape. I couldn't find anyone who would measure their 'pocket Luger' barrel (which I am told was made from a shortened & silver-soldered Navy barrel) so I tried to take the measurements off a picture or two from PIA, Simpsons, and this forum of the original 'pocket Lugers' (not to be confused with Georg Lugers 'baby Luger"). I'm happy with the machine operations but somewhat disappointed with the actual profile. It looks awfully stubby. I understand that most later 'pocket Lugers' are made from shortened P08 barrels, but was the Navy barrel really so thick??? :confused:

Posts here state that the Luger 'Fat Barrel' and 'Cartridge Counter' Lugers had the same dimensioned barrels used to make the shortened 'pocket Lugers', so that is what I used for my dimensions. Vernier calipers on a photograph; not the easiest (or best) way to get dimensions. :(

Eventually, I'll finish up cutting the sight dovetail and the muzzle, and install it on a barrel extension for looks. It's already indexed and chambered. :thumbup:

<sigh>...I've been sidetracked again... :grr:

I wanted a M1900-style rear toggle for my long-barrel Luger, that is one with scalloped knobs. I couldn't find one cheaply enough, so I decided to make one. The M1900 toggle is .150" wider through the knob area, so I couldn't mill a 50mm crescent that the M1900 uses, I had to mill a scallop like Orimar did on their year 2000 commemorative Lugers. It worked out quite well. :thumbup: [Second pic below].

Then, having an artillery rear toggle leftover from eBay, I decided to try an adjustable rear sight mounted on the Luger toggle. My supply of adjustable rear sights are mostly large rifle sights, but I had a couple of Elliason [Colt Gold Cup] sights and decided to try making a base for one of those. It worked out OK, but hangs off the rear quite a bit [first pic below]. I'm not happy with it, although it should function satisfactorily. The only hangup I have is that I don't have the correct #6 tap for the elevation screw. It's even finer than NEF. So I'll have to wait until my next tooling order to get that setup finished.

In the meantime, I have an old Millett adjustable rear sight intended for an M1911 or Hi-Power that is much shorter. I'll be making a base for that in the coming weeks. ;)

Got all my long-barrel pieces assembled, and doing a trial fit of the forearm. It still needs work (or maybe a whole new forearm) but it seems to be coming along... :rolleyes:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....pictureid=3427

I'm not a woodworker, so it's definitely rough. However, the pic shows my Gonzo cartridge-counter grips and modified magazine, the scalloped toggle knobs, the Tomek magazine bottom, the strawed parts, and the new blueing. It started to snow while I took these pics, so I didn't have time to wipe off oily fingerprints... :mad:

Modified Remington M700 30-06 barrel chambered in 7.65 Parabellum, shortened FN/Mauser carbine rear sight, custom front sight.

After doing some experimenting with my corner rounding end mill on that soft pine, I felt confident enough to do some more corner rounding on my forearm...

(106) Extending the flat on the bottom further forward.
(107) Extending the rounded corners of the bottom forward to the Schnabel tip I created in 106.
(108) Lightly sanded and rubbed, then attached to the frame lug for inspection. My brass inlay needs to be milled down 10 or 20 thousandths, and I made a couple mistakes doing these additional tapers. A chip here, a cutter line there. It's not perfect, but I'm not either, so this will do for now. Still needs more work of course, blending the taper curves together, maybe rounding the top line.

A member suggested that I have the forearm checkered. That would hide/detract from my mistakes, but is this 'Gonzo' Luger long-barrel really deserving of checkering??? I'll have to mull that over for a while and maybe consult a higher power... :rolleyes:

The checkering on the grips is awful coarse, and the grips themselves are quite thick...And my 'cartridge counter' mod to them isn't all that great...

Also, the brass inlay would interfere with a traditional checkering pattern...And the side checkering would need to be different...

My brain hurts... :crying:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...1&d=1454948182

I just noticed that Herbert Werle's carbine does not use the forearm 'wedge' to hold his forearm on (pic in post #1 above). It seems to be held on by the sling stud. That's cool; I managed to copy his idea without knowing it... :D

Continuing on with a couple of small refinements...

(109) Thinning the brass inlay. I put a .004" shim between the inlay and the wood so I wouldn't cut into the forearm.
(110) Milling down the brass screws, so they won't hit the barrel.
(111) I still need to finish the tip of the forearm. I don't have good pictures of how it should be shaped, so I'm going by guesswork. The tip seems to be rounded from the side and from the top. I made up a quick and dirty fixture to hold the forearm level (along the barrel axis) so it could be sanded to a round contour in the side view. I'm using my pine 'practice' forearm to see how it would look. It worked excellently. In hindsight, I should have sanded the front tip round after milling the sides and bottom flat but before using my corner rounding end mill on the bottom curved surface. That would have allowed me to draw my round contour directly on the flat of the wood and then I could have easily sanded it and then gone on to the corner rounding of the bottom. As it is, my surface is curved and I'm not skilled enough to sand it freehand without a guide of some sort. :( If I totally ruin this Walnut forearm, I'll make a new one the right way. But I'm too far advanced to trash this one and start over without a compelling reason. :rolleyes:
(112) I've been looking at pics of Luger forearms on the net and mine looks 'thick' by comparison. Looking closely, I notice that the forearm upper deck height is right at the centerline of the barrel, while mine is approximately 3/32" above that centerline. Mulling over how best to cut that much/little off the upper deck, I decided to try side milling it, both sides at once, and climb milling to minimize chips. Here is one of my practice pieces being climb/side milled to see how well this works. Note: It works great! :thumbup:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...4&d=1456019135

Next up is to 'thin' my good Walnut forearm. Same technique as in the previous pic. Climb/side mill the upper deck - comparison of pictures from a recent auction show I need to mill .125" off my deck to get the correct height.

(113) Side/climb milling my good forearm, upper deck.
(114) Re-cutting the deck taper of the forearm.
(115) Tip profile curve marked on tape; sanding curve with forearm clamped in Gonzo sanding fixture. :p
(116) How the profile now looks, with top deck lowered and front tip profile sanded curved. I still need to sand the bottom/top of the tip to a curve also. Pictures show this curve to be rounded in both axes; I'm not sure how to do that. I'll have to think it over...Maybe with a corner rounding end mill or router bit in my rotary indexing head??? :confused:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...2&d=1456238580

Forearm Redux
 

I didn't like the 'curl' at the tip of my forearm, so I made another one. That makes a total of five forearms I've made, and except for a chip, this last one came out just the way I wanted. So, more pictures. :)

Quick & dirty rundown...

(1) Donor wood stock, a Steyr straight-pull.
(2) Milling the inletting for the forearm lug.
(3) Milling the slot for the brass inlay.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...4&d=1459906794

(4) Milling trigger guard cut.
(5) Milling scallops with 1/2" ball end mill.
(6) Milling bottom flat, up to curl.
(7) Two views of squared-off forearm.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...5&d=1459906794

(8) Rounding bottom of side with corner rounding end mill.
(9) Same on other side.
(10) Chamfering top sides with weird burr. :)
(11) Two views of rounded-off forearm.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...6&d=1459906794

(12) Modified fixtures used to hold forearm for milling.
(13) Milling brass inlay to size.
(14) Rounding ends of inlay.
(15) Drilling & counterboring inlay for attaching screws.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...7&d=1459906824

(16) Finished forearm and brass inlay.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...8&d=1459906824

This completes the long-barreled part of this project. All metal parts are either blued or strawed (or brass) and forearm is finished except for final sanding and treating with BLO.

On to the next part! :cheers:

The Buttstock
 

When I dug out my sales receipt from 1992, it was for a 1917 Luger. So, it could have been for a Luger carbine. I have both a 13" and a 16" barreled receiver for this Luger, so here's the period buttstock for it.

Finding a buttstock was very frustrating. I wanted a '1902 style' profile but all I could find were '1920 style' repros or duplicates. So, I ended up getting a used semi-finished 1920 style and sectioning & gluing it to look like a 1902 style. :rolleyes:

(1) Buttstock as received from eBay seller.
(2) Milling a .060" thick x 10mm Walnut 'popsicle stick' for stock iron groove, both top & bottom.
(3) Popsicle sticks glued in & being milled to fit iron.
(4) Milling butt flat, and at an angle like 1902.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...2&d=1459909215

(5), (6), and (7) Milling lever reliefs in gooseneck with ball end mill.
(8) Stock iron fitted.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...3&d=1459909215

(9) Sawing eBay buttstock in half. EEK!!! What is this madman doing??? :eek:
(10) Sawed pieces. Actually, two saw cuts, to create a ~5/16" taper/drop to the stock :crying:
(11) Milling sawn end of stock flat.
(12) Milling 3/8" slot for reinforcing wedge.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...4&d=1459909215

(13) Milling sawn end of gooseneck flat.
(14) Clamping stock pieces together to mark gooseneck for slot.
(15) Milling 3/8" slot in gooseneck.
(16) Pieces slotted and stacked to admire. ;)

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...5&d=1459909238

The slots have been milled at different angles, so the filler piece cab be wedge-shaped. Maked fitting easier. :D

(17) Milling a piece of Walnut down to .375".
(18) Clockwise - Spare piece of 3/8" Walnut; cardboard form; 3/8" wedge inserted between two sawn pieces.
(19) Wedge & two pieces glued together with Resorcinol glue and left clamped under mill quill.
(20) Glued buttstock 24 hours later, ready for shaping.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...6&d=1459909238

Glue has cured, excess wood of wedge has been band-sawed off, I'm now rough sanding the wedge and slots.

(21) Sanding the top of the wedge/slot. Bottom was next.
(22) Filling in some chips & low spots with the Resorcinol glue. Olle told me that Aircraft Spruce Co. had industrial-strength Resorcinol glue ("Cascophen") for use on aircraft and marine applications. The Resorcinol glue you get in hardware stores is watered-down and regulated to the point that it's no longer effective. This is the good stuff. Can be sanded, sawed, drilled, etc. When cured. ;)
(23), (24) Rough sanding finished.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...7&d=1459911383

A buttplate is next. I could not find anything suitable. So I made one out of black Delrin. I love Delrin. It's lathe-turnable, millable, drillable, you can even tap/thread it. Nice hard Acetal plastic. :)

(25) Milling a piece of Delrin flat.
(26) Drilling attaching holes.
(27) Drilling the butt to match the buttplate holes.
(28) Rough belt-sanding the Delrin buttplate to shape.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...8&d=1459911383

(29) Buttplate fitted to stock; final marking of edges. Screws used are from an 1891 Argentine Mauser rifle. And, at this point, disaster struck. :( One of the old screws snapped the head off. Crystalline fracture. I couldn't grab onto the piece in the stock, I had to drill the piece out. This left a ragged hole, so I enlarged it and glued in a Walnut plug.
(30) 1/2" hole drilled for plug. Finished plug is in lathe in background.
(31) Resorcinol glue used to secure plug.
(32) Milling plug flat.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...9&d=1459911383

Following that setback, it was time to finish off the buttplate.

(33) Drilling the plug for the Mauser screw. I have several. ;)
(34) Milling/thinning the buttplate to 5/16" thick.
(35) Rounding the edge with a 1/8" radius corner rounding router bit.
(36) Final sanding & fitting of buttplate to stock.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...0&d=1459911412

Time to finish sand and prep the forearm and buttstock for BLO. I followed the instructions given at Ironwood Designs for finishing their gunstocks (http://ironwooddesigns.com/IWDfinish.html). Five coats of Boiled Linseed Oil, let dry 24 hours, then buff.

(37) After first heavy coat of BLO. Waiting 15 mins then wipe excess off, then 4 thin coats, let dry 24 hrs.
(38) Finished stock/forearm after buffing.
(39) The finished and assembled Gonzo Luger long barreled carbine. It's no beauty, but it sure is...different... :p

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...1&d=1459911412

Here's a comparison pic of original '1920 style' duplicated stock as I got it (and fitted the stock iron) and compared to the finished stock before final sanding. It's not an exact match for a '1902 style' buttstock, but it'll do for now. ;)

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...3&d=1459911752

Here's a pic taken in the early hours of an April morning, outdoors, of the assembled finished 'carbine' with attached stock. All Gonzo - scalloped toggle knobs, 'cartridge counter' grips & modified Tomek magazines, Mauser rifle rear sight, and generally rough barn-job fabricating.

7.65 Parabellum caliber. I have no idea if it will even shoot. And I don't care. :cheers: :roflmao: :D

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...2&d=1459911412

really creative work of art - in metal and wood - nicely sculpted !!!

I've gone over the text on page 1 and corrected some mistakes and added a few additional remarks. My apologies if some of the composite pics seem to be out of order, especially the forearm machining, but it's kind of a compilation of several of the five forearms showing the milling operations. :p

I'm quite pleased with the final forearm. Making them all, using metalworking tooling and machinery exclusively, was very satisfying. The final forearm is not an accurate copy of an actual Luger forearm, but it kind of looks like one, if you squint your eyes and stand back a few feet... :D

Before I stick them away forever, I thought I'd take a group photo of the five forearms that I made for this project. Two I made mistakes on, one was a 'feasibility study', one was just for practicing machine operations, and one turned out OK. :)

- Far left is the one made from an Ithaca M37 stock [feasilibility study]. Barrel channel was too wide, due to Ithaca attaching bolt.
- Next is a white pine - oddly, this one is by far the best. Everything just came together on it. :rolleyes:
- Middle is made from an 1891 Argentine Mauser stock, but I made the curled tip too small. Otherwise, a good one.
- Light colored striped one is made from the 1895 Steyr straight-pull stock. I mis-measured the trigger guard distance and this one cracked when I screwed it to the lug.
- Last one is another 1891 Argentine Mauser stock piece. This one wasn't quite as good as #2 and #4 but it's good enough! :thumbup:

Very nice work. Thanks for photos of the process. Quite creative.
Jim

Refurbing a 16" Barrel
 

This will be a rehash of what has gone before, but I decided to experiment on a couple of ideas I had, and take pictures so I would have a record. ;)

I had originally made two barrels for this Gonzo project; after doing ~85% of the longer barrel, I decided to go in a different direction. So, I shelved the second barrel and started a third. :)

(1) The donor barrel - a Remington 700 barrel in 30-06 caliber.
(2) Turning down the barrel for the FN/Mauser carbine rear sight.
(3) Turning down the 'flange' that bears against the barrel extension ['receiver'].

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...3&d=1462054087

Continuing operations on the Remington 30 cal barrel.

(4) Turning down the breech stub.
(5) Threading the breech stub.
(6) Cutting the stub to required length; turning relief.
(7) Final fitting the barrel extension to the threaded stub.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...4&d=1462054087

Chambering for 7.65 Parabellum.

(8, 9, 10) Cutting the chamber, 1/32" at a time.
(11) Final fitting the 7.65 Parabellum chamber.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...5&d=1462054087

Fabrication of the front sight base.

(12) Rectangular piece of steel drilled & tapped 1/2" x 28tpi and mounted in rotary indexing head to mill outer diameter.
(13) Milling the sides of the sight base flat.
(14) Chamfering the front of the base and milling the rear ramp.
(15) Turning down and threading the muzzle for the front sight base.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...6&d=1462054087

Now I'll mill the dovetail for the front sight blade.

(16) Cutting the dovetail.
(17) Milling the front sight blade from a piece of 3/8" steel bar.
(18) Blade has been dovetailed and is ready to be pressed in place.
(19) Blade has been squared to size and is being finish milled.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...4&d=1462154555

Test fitting the various pieces for fit and visual effect.

(20) Front sight screwed in place.
(21) Rear sight is a slip fit; it will be secured with screws later.
(22) Full length profile view.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...5&d=1462154648

Next will be making a keyhole spanner for the front sight base and a set of vise inserts for this barrel. :)

Making the front sight base keyhole spanner, barrel vise inserts, and other small items. :)

(23) Boring a hole in a chunk of 7/16" aluminum plate.
(24) Milling the slot for ramp clearance.
(25) Spanner in use. Works great! By some stroke of luck (or divine intervention) the sight base is in exactly the right position for tightening to 12:00 position. :)
(26) Milling Patridge-style notch in rear sight leaf, to match squared front sight blade.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...2&d=1462544376

Vise inserts, made from aluminum round stock, 1 1/2" dia & 1 1/2" long.

(27) Faced insert being bored to ~.755", which is the diameter of the barrel just in front of the rear sight base.
(28) Sawing the finished vise insert in half. Cuts will be belt sanded smooth.
(29) A second vise insert is used for the front sight base, as shown in pic #25 above. An insert from another barrel project was the right size, so no other insert fabrication was required. Sight spanner, vise inserts, and receiver insert shown with torqued assembly. Bluing will be the final step. :)

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...4&d=1462661066

Next will be a new, longer forearm to match this longer barrel. ;)

(30) I have a piece of some kind of Walnut, 21" x 8" x 1 1/2". Has some defects [the X] but hey, it's what I gots. :rolleyes:
(31) Slab has had a 1 3/4" x 9" piece cut off, decked top & bottom parallel, and barrel trench cut with a 5/8" ball end mill.
(32) Trimming ~.200" off each side. Bottom has had a similar amount milled off.
(33) Cutting the coves with a 1/2" ball end mill. Mounting holes were drilled first to hold the forearm to my mandrel/vise fixture.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...5&d=1463531653

Next up, I think, will be the bottom angled cut. ;)

Continuing work on the forearm. I made this one eight inches OAL. That makes it half the length of the barrel, which looks more balanced to me. :)

(34) Side milling the bottom of the forearm, using a 5/8" end mill and taking ~.030" deep cuts, ~.080" wide.
(35) Side milling the tapers on each side. Taking about 1/8" taper off. I thought I'd take a couple 'action' shots, just for a change. :D
(36) Milling the curved end of the brass inlay bar, with a 3/16" concave radius cutter.
(37) Drilling the relief holes for the inlay screws in the forearm inlay.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...4&d=1464658847

(38) Switching over to a 3/4" corner rounding end mill to round the bottom of the forearm. Another 'action' shot. :D
(39) Brass inlay being milled down with a 3/8" end mill to match forearm bottom surface .
(40) Beveling the upper edges of the forearm.
(41) Forearm, brass inlay, and brass attaching screws are finished. Wood has two coats of BLO on it, and I was surprised/disappointed to see how dark it turned out. :(

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...1&d=1464835706

Next up is to stamp or cut index marks for the barrel/receiver and front sight ramp/base and barrel. I also want to bevel the muzzle and and crown the bore slightly.

(42) Here's a comparison of the 13" barrel & 6 1/2" forearm and the 16" barrel and 8" forearm. I've seen pictures online of 16" carbines with the short 6 1/2" forearms; they look disproportionate to me. These two combinations look much more proportional IMO. :D

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...8&d=1464897466

Finishing up some of the 'little things' that need doing; feed ramp, extractor notch, muzzle crown, muzzle cap bevels...

(43) Using a curved lathe tool bit from Brownell's to cut a radius on the muzzle. I've had mixed success with this, it seems to chatter a lot. :mad:
(44) Cutting a 45º bevel on the end of the muzzle cap. I also opened up the hole a bit and beveled that as well.
(45) Cutting the feed ramp with a 10mm end mill.
(46) Different fixture; cutting the extractor notch with a 3/32" Woodruff keyway cutter followed by a 3/16" Woodruff keyway cutter. Sharp edges will be rounded off with a needle file.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...7&d=1465438725

That should pretty much finish up machining operation for the 16" barrel and forearm. I'll be looking for a mailing tube to send it off for blueing. I haven't decided if I should get a separate toggle assembly for this upper, or just use the 13" toggle assembly. Really doesn't matter, I suppose. I can only use one at a time. If I was to get a separate toggle assembly, I would probably be tempted to build another long-barrel frame assembly to go with it... :p

And now for Barrel #3
 

In another thread, Schutzenbob is building a Sharps-Borchardt with a forearm dovetailed to the barrel. That sounded interesting, as it would allow you to use a long barrel w/forearm on any Luger without the mounting lug for the forearm. I have one more Remington 700 30-06 barrel, so I'm going to make a long barrel with a forearm dovetailed to the barrel, somewhat like the Luger artillery rear sight dovetail. Long enough to hold two forearm attaching screws. And I'll make the inletting at the rear of the forearm wide enough to allow it to recoil over the frame.

Here's the start... :)

(1) Remington 700 barrel in 30-06 caliber.
(2) Turning down the breech end to the OD of the Luger barrel flange and then turning that down to the ID of my 1896 Swedish Mauser carbine rear sight. The two black spots are the OEM Remington rear sight tapped mounting holes. I'll be using them to attach my sight.
(3) Sight slipped on for final fitting.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...7&d=1466565602

The sight is from an 1896 Swedish Mauser carbine. I like the look of it, although like all Mauser sights, it is incredibly optimistic. :D

(4) The Swedish Mauser carbine sight, same ID as pretty much all Mauser sights.
(5) Threading the breech end of the 30-06 Remington 700 barrel to Luger specs.
(6) Cutting the breech stub to length, relieving the rearmost end of the thread.
(7) I've decided to make my barrel band/muzzle cap/front sight blade all out of one piece of steel. In the past, I've milled/turned the FS band out of steel rod and dovetailed the blade into it. This time I've drilled & tapped a piece of 1" key stock for the 1/2" x 28tpi barrel thread I'll be using, and the blade will be integral. At least, that is Plan A. :p

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...7&d=1467055962

Next I'll be threading the barrel/muzzle for the muzzle cap/band/sight base, and milling the cap/band/sight to shape. ;)

(8) These three pics show the muzzle being turned to diameter, threaded 1/2" x 28tpi, and the steel block from pic #7 above fitted to the barre.
(9) This is the steel block being milled in a rotary indexing head. I had the thought that milling it would be faster than band-sawing the block to the rough shape & size. I was wrong. It took much longer. Next time I do a similar part, I'll band saw it first. :banghead:

First pic is the rough rounding of the block, second is the finished band, third is the muzzle of the cap sized to the same OD as the end of the barrel, before the threads.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...1&d=1467252549

Next will be milling the band flat on each side and then milling the blade.

(10) Milling the sides of the blade/base flat.
(11) Milling the top of the blade down to equal the height of the rear sight folded.
(12) Milling the blade itself down to ~.120".
(13) Muzzle cap/band/blade shown on barrel for effect.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...8&d=1467309162

I had to fabricate a new muzzle cap spanner; the pics are of it being milled out of 7/16" x 1 5/8" 6061-T6 aluminum bar. When it was done, I assembled the barrel, rear sight, barrel extension ['receiver'], and muzzle cap/band.

(14) Boring out the aluminum bar, milling a .350" slot, and test fitting the spanner and muzzle cap. Assembled unit shown for effect. ;)

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...6&d=1467419240

Next I will 'slope' the blade forward. :p I also need to mill the rear sight 'V' to a square Patridge style aperture.

More little stuff, milling the muzzle cap and the rear sight. ;)

(15) Milling the ramp on the rear of the muzzle cap/band.
(16) Milling the 'slope' on the front sight blade.
(17) Milling the 'Patridge style' notch on the 1896 Swedish Mauser carbine rear sight leaf, folded section.
(18) Milling the 'Patridge style' notch on the slider.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...5&d=1467490911

Next on the list is to cut the extractor notch and the feed ramp. :)

But first, I'm itching to start on the forearm. :D

(19) Here I took time to make a much-desired modification to my receiver wrench - an extra locking lug recess in the handle. It came with the recess in the cap, but I level my Luger barrels using the front sight, so having the handle sticking straight up is awkward. Now I have 180º capability. ;)
(20) Here's my piece of Walnut. My neighbor told me it is 'Black Walnut' and that is why it turns so dark with BLO. I dunno, I'm not a wood person... :confused:
(21) Here I've milled out the main channel for the barrel and rear sight base.
(22) I'm using a Woodruff key cutter to mill the slots for the frame rails. The barrel with forearm attached with recoil ~.3/8" over the frame. Right now, it all fits; I just have to lengthen the slots a bit.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...8&d=1467680055

I am finding it difficult to visualize the forearm in action and transfer the minds-eye image to the forearm. I had thought I would taper the barrel channel to match the barrel but the math was really confusing me. The masking tape in #21 shows what the OD should be at those points.. :rolleyes:

I got the first 16" barrel back from the bluer today. It's all together, and looks good! :thumbup:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...5&d=1468269376

Here's a comparison of the finished 13" and the finished 16". The 13" has the 6 1/2" forearm; the 16" has the 8" forearm. The 16" has the full length FN Mauser carbine rear sight; the 13" has the shortened FN Mauser carbine rear sight. :)

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...6&d=1468269376

Work on the second 16" barrel with the Swedish Mauser sight continues. ;)

Rich,
thanks for taking the time to do the 'how to' pictures and posting them.
Great info and i know it took a LOT of time and effort.

The end result looks super.

Work on my second (or is it third???) 16" barrel continues. If you've read through page one and this page up to here, then this is all a repeat of what has gone before. I have done a few things differently, and I want to preserve them for future reference, so please bear along with me...

(23) Cutting the rear of the forearm. I've cut the 'scallops' so that they will recoil over the frame ~3/8". It makes the forearm wider, but the side profile will be similar.
(24) Now that the forearm has been fitted to the barrel and inletted to clear the frame, I need to locate where I will cut the dovetail for the forearm lug. To do that, I need to finish off the chamber and fasten the barrel to the receiver for the last time. Here I'm chambering it for 7.65 Parabellum.
(25) Cutting the feed ramp.
(26) Cutting the extractor notch. I use two Woodruff keyway cutters, and smooth the interior corners with a triangular file.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...2&d=1468803393

The barrel has now been screwed into the receiver and torqued to place the rear sight at exactly 12 o'clock relative to the extractor notch/feed ramp. ;)

Next will be locating the screw holes in the forearm and then milling out a slot in the barrel for the dovetailed lug.

(27) Milling the slot for the brass inlay.
(28) Side-milling the bottom of the forearm; final cut.
(29 & 30) Milling a flat for the forearm attachment lug, and milling the ends for a 60º dovetail.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...6&d=1468965528

I'll make the lug next, with a 60º chamfer on each end for a ~2 1/8" long x 3/8" wide dovetailed lug.

(31) Milling the lug with a 60º cutter.
(32) Forearm lug drilled & tapped for attaching screws.
(33) Side milling the forearm taper.
(34) Milling the brass inlay for the forearm.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...1&d=1469137654

The barrel is completed. I'll fine sand the barrel itself to make it shinier. Rest of the remaining work will be on the forearm wood and the brass inlay. ;)

Woodworking - I hate it. I hate sanding. :mad: So most of my woodworking will be done with metalworking tools. :thumbup:

(35) Using a corner-rounding end mill to round the bottom of the forearm.
(36) Using a tapered burr to relieve the top of the forearm.
(37) I'm rounding the tip of the forearm on my belt sander. I've left this to last because in the previous forearms, I've chipped the curl when milling the sides first. I had to make a wedge-shaped jig to hold the forearm square with the belt. Next, the part I hate - finish sanding the wood to minimize tool marks.
(38) This shot is to show the assembled barrel & forearm in battery and under recoil. You can see that the fixed forearm, with its carbine profile, recoils past the trigger guard. I had wondered if this would pinch the shooters trigger finger, but unless the shooter has fat sausage fingers, it doesn't hit the finger. In fact, I couldn't release the trigger quickly enough to even be close to the forearm tang. ;)

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...1&d=1469996854

That pretty much wraps it up for the fixed forearm and long barrel. The barrel will go out for bluing, and I'll put a couple coats of BLO on the forearm. The brass inlay also needs a couple thin cuts to make it level with the forearm.

Originally, I had worried that I would need to screw the dovetailed lug to the barrel so it wouldn't come loose. It has to be removable, as the rear sight needs to move past it on assembly. But while fitting the forearm wood to the barrel, I realized that the dovetail lug holds the forearm tight to the barrel and the sides of the forearm hold the dovetail lug from moving. It's a non-problem. :D

Here's a couple pics showing the completed barrel/forearm combination, with and without frame assembly.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...2&d=1469996993

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...3&d=1469997115

I'll replace those pics with the 'finished' pics when the barrel comes back from being blued. Hopefully, I can take the pics outside. :thumbup:

Cleaning up some of the odd operations that remain. ;)

(39) Milling the brass attachment inlay flush with the forearm. I'm actually milling it down to ~.004" from the surrounding wood. There is a .004" shim under the brass inlay. :D
(40) Heavy coat of BLO applied to the wood. Let soak in for 10 minutes, wipe off excess, and let dry. Another coat in an hour or so. Objects in foreground are the dovetailed steel lug, brass inlay, brass screws, and that .004" shim. :)

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...4&d=1473783755

Here's two additional pics. I was trying to show how the fat barrel-mounted forearm is wider than the lug/frame mounted forearm. :rolleyes:

This last 16" barrel and forearm was just an exercise. I don't expect it to win any beauty contests. I just wanted to see how it would look, and if it could mimic the profile/look of a 'traditional' carbine. :p

I got my faux 'carbine' barrel assembly back from the refinisher; it looks good! :thumbup:

Forearm is about as done as it's going to get. Everything has been assembled and function-tested, no problems. :)

To reiterate - The forearm mounts on the barrel and recoils over the frame. That makes it fatter than a 'real' carbine forearm, but the profile is similar. No modifications to Luger frame necessary.

Here's the finished product -

(41) Finished barrel assembly; blued, chambered for 7.65 Parabellum, notched, ramped, dovetailed, drilled & tapped. Swedish Mauser rifle rear sight, custom front. Original toggle mounted rear sight is lower than Mauser so it does not interfere with new sight picture. Swedish Mauser sight graduated to 1600 meters. It'd be like lobbing a baseball. :D

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...5&d=1473784605

(42) Closeup of top & underside of forearm and installed dovetail lug, plus mounting screws. Like all Luger carbines, forearm must be removed to disassemble the pistol. The difference is that my forearms are screw-mounted instead of a tapered wedge.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...6&d=1473784605

(43) Closeups of Mauser sight up & down; front sight; and rear views showing hollowed-out wood.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...7&d=1473784605

(44) Static and cycled pic of faux assembly mounted on a 1937 Mauser Luger w/Erfurt toggle assembly. Side profile still resembles a 'real' Luger carbine but does not require any modifications to the frame for the forearm.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...8&d=1473784797

(45) View showing barrel & toggle train in full recoil. My finger is in no danger of being pinched. I'm 5'11" 195 lbs. If you had fat sausage fingers you might draw blood, but an average shooter won't get bitten. :cheers:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...9&d=1473784797

That does it for my assortment of Gonzo long barrel Luger 'carbines'. Very interesting conversions and very informative to me as far as 'designing' and creating. This thread is too long and takes too long to load, so anything further will go into a new thread. :)

(Side view of dovetail lug added). ;)

Work of true craftsman, right there. Thanks for sharing.

God gave you a unique Gift!!! Its wonderful for you to share it with all of us!!!! Eric

Nice work Rich.
Really nice wood work.

Do you really need those ears at the rear of the fore arm that recoil into the trigger area?
I guess they are essentially cosmetic, as there can be no rotating force to the fore arm.

Beautiful work! But does the action jam with the greater weight forward and the design where the fore stock is not mounted to the frame? I guess you can't hold the fore stock or it will impede the recoil action and jam. I'm working on my own carbine with a 16.5 inch barrel and looking for a fore stock and angle piece to mount to the frame.

No, as you noted, they are cosmetic. I was going for the profile of a carbine. :)

If it was all sorted out with a specific load/bullet/recoil spring, it should function normally. And in theory, the bullet should have left the barrel before the cannon recoils, so (again in theory) whether you still have your hand on it or not wouldn't matter. :rolleyes:

I'm big on theory. :D

I could never get a 16" .30 barrel to work in SA fire.

I think it would require an auxillary spring to close the toggle; and for sure if you were holding the handguard on the one above, it would make a big difference - not a theory- I've done it when struggling to try to get my 16" bbl to work.

When I first started that particular build, I had it in mind to make it a 'pump action' repeater. A sliding forearm with a rod going up to the toggle. The toggle would stay closed until the slide action opened it. But I got hung up on how to lock the action closed when firing. I had thought of a button/bar that would engage the frame until pressed then it would unlock the slide. Pretty much like a pump shotgun.

But I got too engrossed in the rest of the build...It took on a life of its own... :eek:

It wouldn't have looked like a Luger carbine either, even from the side. Think of one of those old .22 Winchester pump action rifles. With a long bar going from the slide up to the toggle. :rolleyes: