Newbie
 

Hello all
I have a Luger that was brought home from WWII by my father. It was taken from Hitler's Reich Chancellery Building at the end of the war. The Luger is one of several found in a crate, unopened, wrapped in a wax paper type paper and covered with cosmoline.
The gun has had maybe 25 rounds thru it. It is a 7.65 cal.

What is the best way to start searching for more information on this type Luger?

I can post photos, if anyone would like.

Thanks for any help.

J Durr Wise
Mississippi
USA

That would be the way! :D

Left & right, top, full length all, any markings, the serial of course, and any accessories or paperwork you might have. Bringback paper, bill of sale, note from customs, whatever.

Attach your pictures to this thread. If for some reason the forum won't let you attach them, post a couple more times - it's to keep bots out. After 4 or 5 posts, you'll be able to attach them. The people you want to reach with your pictures are behind corporate/gov't firewalls that block Photobucket, TinyPic, Google, YouTube, SmugMug etc.

Sounds like a neat Luger! :thumbup:

Made by DWM [duh!] Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken [sic] and in seeming outstanding condition. Have you stripped it yet to see if all numbers match? Last two digits should be on the marked pieces. Pay special attention to the magazine base and the trigger plate. They seem to be the most mismatched.

7.65 is most commonly a commercial pistol; military Luger production stopped in 1942. I don't believe DWM was even in business by then. If found in a WW II setting, it would require more detail to come up with an explanation of why it was not issued or what its intended use was...

Pile on as much details as you know about it. Any accessories? Do you still have the greasy paper??? :D

Commercial proof on left side receiver; no military proofs on right. Markings on bottom of barrel???

The barrel is stamped 922 with a Z or N and a symbol ...right in front of the trigger guard is 922...on the left side is the Z or N and symbol again...on top of the gun 89 appears 3 times....the magazine is stamped 789. So far that is all of the stampings that I see.

Welcome to the forum. You have a nice commercial Luger in great shape.
With all due respect to the family story behind this pistol, unless your father was a member of the Russian army, it is highly unlikely that this pistol came from a crateful at the Reich Chancellery.
No US troops came close to this building until the end of and after hostilities and it is highly unlikely that invading Soviet troops would have missed looting a crateful of Lugers sitting around in this building.
It is not unusual for family lore to be embellished. We see it here fairly often.

And by the numbers, the cannon assembly and magazine are from a different Luger...

So the idea that it was "new in the grease" goes up in smoke as well. Don't take offense, these family stories are common.

Can I ask if you were there Mr. alanint? Can you say with 100% certainty, that you are right? I don't think so.....
My father is almost 90 now and will be glad to debate you on your opinion.

All the folks on this forum have to go by are the photos. If you have a Luger that is in 7.65 Para/30 Luger caliber, on the barrel and frame is a "N" above a Crown, then you have a commercial and not a military Luger.....originally. Because the frame numbers do not match the toggle train numbers, then it is a parts Luger.....made up from parts of two or more Lugers. These are the only things we have to evaluate, and this is how it comes out....sorry.

Please do not take offense at Alan's skepticism. We have learned over the years that probably 50% of the Luger bring-backs come with a bit of daring-do attached.
And a lot of things don't add up about a .30 commercial luger, supposedly new but already mismatched, showing up at that particular point in history.
Anyway, please understand our skepticism. And if Dad is willing, maybe ask him about it.
dju

I am sorry that I asked. I will be glad to follow up with names, dates, and any more information. I was not trying to start WWIII. It is what it is........

crown nitro proof ?

D:
Thank you and we will look forward to the addl. info.
dju

As I asked from the begining, "don't take offense". But to any student of history, it is like telling us you were born in 1958 but insist you were aboard the Titanic.
Nothing about your story adds up historically and your photos support this opinion. Enjoy your family legacy but take the story with a grain of salt.

This is a very odd gun. By the proofs it is a commercial piece made in the 1920s but the serial number is not consistent with that identification. It is in fantastic condition and from the photos it does not appear to be refinished. I'm pretty sure it hasn't...the markings are way too sharp and exhibit halos and upset metal around the numbers. The toggle train is a mis-match but is in the same condition as the rest of the gun. I can't speak to the story of the origin or history of the gun, but it appears to be as close to factory new as you can get. It is fascinating and I would very much like to see several more detailed photos of the gun. If you took one out of a crate whenever or wherever that might have been, I would expect it to look like this. It might be a fantasy piece, but it sure is a pretty one. :)

I suggest recording this conversation with your father. It can be referred to later, for details; and the recorded interview, itself, will be a family heirloom. It is one way to preserve your dad's experiences and stories--which would otherwise be lost.

Great idea....I have just added more photos to my Gallery. Take a look if you are interested.

In my WWII Luger Albumhttp://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....pictureid=2927

I'm looking at your sideplate number [bottom of sideplate]...Can't quite make it out...First digit looks like "2" but the second is too blurry...Or maybe it's my eyes that are blurry... :p

Takedown lever has "22" which is good...

Lines & edges all look nice & sharp; commercial proofs look distinct...Finish is excellent...Strawing excellent...

It is 22 as well. I will be glad to help with any more questions. I would just like to ID as much as I can about where and when it was made. thank you

i met a older gent near my home that had some lugers he wanted to sell. 3-4 guns appears to be parts guns until i realized he had simply mixed up some parts from different guns during a cleaning session.

his mind was a bit foggy and he did not realize his mistake. i bought one and let his son know the value of the other guns so they could sell them too. all the guns were matching once we put the parts where they belonged.

My Father was in WWII and Korea, he has passed on but told me many stories about his service in the Army. Myself being a longtime student of Military History know that some of his stories were fabrications. My Father-in-law was in the Army also, served in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam, he would never speak a single word about his service. Only after his Death did we find his Military records. He was without question the real deal hardass. God bless them both!

I agree with Ron here: pretty interesting and curious handgun. Take the story with cautiouns but, well, as you said, it is what it is.
But, more importantly, it is your father's pistol - and it makes it the only one in world. Enjoy it as such.
All the best,
Douglas

Amen to that!:thumbup:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....pictureid=2932

a photo of my father with Sgt. Merk, who also received one of these Lugers. The Russians were friendly during this time and pal'd around with the GIs. I will be posting more details and facts to support "the story". Plus, it is my understanding that near the end of the war, Lugers were put together at the factory using mismatched numbers. More details to follow.

Would somebody help me confirm the issue about "new" mismatched numbers. I read it in John Walter's book on Lugers. This would explain the numbers thing. I am still working on all the info for verifying the source of the Lugers for you guys.

I have one of Walters' Luger books (he wrote several) but don't recognize that term...Which book & what page??? :confused:

That story of mixed numbers is true, but more likely p38's, ppk, etc. then krieghoffs were made up of whatever parts, while salvaged lugers were sold in the px.

With few exceptions, us soldiers met only a few Russians, and never made it to Berlin until after the war. Now, it does not mean that some Lugers weren't found in an important building. I am talking to a guy right now that his dad found a Luger, in a glass case in Suhl. It is a very early gun and I have little doubt the story is not true.

It sounds and looks like a gun that was special to someone important. Remember, lots of high ranking Germans had their items boxed up and sent west away from the Russians. This stuff was found by GIs and plundered, I mean consficated.

All indications, (frame serial number) are that this is an early pre-WW2, pre-alphabet commercial pistol. It has no Mauser hump, so that would indicate that the frame is also DWM manufacture, which would put it completely out of any "last ditch, late war, mismatched pistols" scenario. Even in the unlikely event that this was a last ditch pistol, they would NEVER have taken the time to straw any of the parts nor would it be finished so nicely!

As a pre-war commercial pistol in a non-issued caliber, it is very unlikely that it came out of an unopened crate, still wrapped in factory grease, sitting in a goverment building. Even if the Reich Chancellery did indeed have an "arsenal", it would have almost certainly ben stocked with goverment issue weapons, i.e. 9mm Pistols, and more likely P38s, not Lugers, which were subsitute standard at that point.

It is a very interesting pistol in outstanding shape. I have no trouble believing your father brought it back from WW2. It may have been matching when he got it, but somehow had the toggle train swapped out along the way. All I'm saying is that there is almost no chance this came from an unopened crate at the Reich Chancellery building.

Mr alan, The gun has not been in anyone's possession other than my father since it came from Berlin. So, nothing has been swapped out and he insist's that he picked it from a crate, wrapped in wax paper and covered in cosmoline. The man shown in the photo with Dad is Sgt. Merk who gave him the gun in Berlin while they were both stationed there.

Sorry, I should not have put the quotations around new mismatched. I have the gun, but Dad has the book. I will get the book and verify the page etc. thanks

http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....pictureid=2933

Can anyone identify this marking and it's meaning? thanks

I can not see any marking in the photo posted?

We are not doubting you, and some troops met up with Russians but perhaps it was the occupation right after the war?

here is one website info If your dad and friend were stationed there, it could have been right after the war, during occupation duty and trust me, i have seen real stories of a box of lugers (30-40 of them) that were hidden in an attic and found years later - Berlin was pretty leveled, but much still standing.

It's True
 

It was after the war during the cleanup. He told me that much. He is going to tell me the whole story again in a few days. He just was released from having some surgery done. He still has his papers from the service. Seems like he said it was in July or August of 1945.
I will update asap.

heyhugh, if you look almost the exact center of the pic on top of the pistol, you will see a marking that looks like some kind of bug or something.