Help w/ info on 1941 maker production and value
 

Referred to this forum by web-friend from another site. Recent estate sale purchase: Appears to have never been used, only wear is from dirt and insects attacking dye. Leather is thick and has no creases on straps or tool pocket flap. New Old Stock?

Appears to have correct leather stampings; P.08, 41, cxb (Moll, Ledenwarefabrik, Goch, Rheinland), NS eagle, Waffenamt WaA127.
Ink stamp inside lid: 28. April 1941.

No tool, no magazine.

My research found Moll as maker of many P.38 holsters, but I can find no examples of this maker producing a P.08 holster. Does this make it a rare holster? Any assistance is appreciated-thank you.

I'm having difficulty uploading photos-will re-shoot and try later tonight, in the meantime, I can send pix directly if you give me an e-mail. Thank you!

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Hello Wayne, and welcome to the forum.

Your pictures are, unfortunately, too small to show detail. Generally, if you prepare Jpegs with about 50% quality compression and 1024 pixels wide they will work well. Just resize them before uploading.

You should be able to upload multiple pictures onto one posting. Use the advanced option and manage attachments to upload them.

Try and add a picture taken edge-on showing the left side edge construction. Also a closeup of the closure strap.

I haven't seen a period WW-II holster with that kind of finish chipping.

Here's an example of one that was recently sold. You can compare the photos to the construction of your holster:

http://www.legacy-collectibles.com/n...r-holster-1449

WaffenAmt office inspector "WaA727" was active at this factory, rather than "127".

Marc

As mentioned in the original post, this is insect damage. I have had several leather items similarly damaged here in South Florida.

Strap pix

Thanks Marc and alanint,
The construction seems correct, and the insect damage could probably be re-dyed if someone chose to, as the affected areas are generally smooth - the only ate the finish, not the leather itself.

The holster you sent the link for apparently sold for $700, other vintage similar on ebay for $127, or less. I'm not in a position to start collecting here yet, so I'd like this holster to go to someone who appreciates it, but by the same token I don't want to give it away, nor do I expect to get retail prices on sites like ebay. Any suggestions on what to ask or how to fairly represent it on the FS forum to members in this community is appreciated. Thanks.

The spacer is two distinct, thick layers of leather sewn between the front and back outside layers.

The previous photo of left side edge photo makes the finish appear worse than it really is, only certain of the hard edges are affected by insect damage, and ALL of the stitching is intact throughout. This shot illustrates there's no visible wear to the button hole on the tool holder flap!

Wayne..Your last photo is quite surprising! That is a giant spacer block sewn into the edge! Over the many years I have seen Luger holsters come into my shop I have seen some with a similar but much thinner spacer..That one's crazy looking. This is the kind of holster I love to get a hands on look at. Do you have a Luger to drop into this holster? I wonder about the fit.

Jerry, sorry, I don't have a pistol to test fit, but see if theses pix provide a reference using a quarter stood up on the edge of the belt loop.

Oops!

Most luger holster go from $100-$350 - everything depends on condition, condition and the type.

I would guess yours is a bit over the $100 mark - perhaps $150 but nothing close to $700 - that is the problem in seeing an expensive item ;)

Ed

I mainly provided a reference to the one on Legacy Collectibles so that you could compare construction with detailed photos.

Because of the damage, your holster would be worth considerably less. My guess is $200 or so.
Jerry is an expert holster restorer, is available on the board here, and could probably give you good advice about restoration and whether it's advisable.

The very thick looking side could be an artifact of a wide angle lens shooting very closeup.

Marc

Thank you, Ed, Marc and Jerry. I don't have unrealistic expectations as to the retail value vs. pristine examples, but I did want to get a feel for how the dirt and insect damage on the negative side compared to the apparently unused and correct condition on the plus side. I had hoped I might get $300-$400 if I could time it right and find a buyer looking for that year, mark, etc. Would a good cleaning, spot re-dye and leather treatment add or detract from the value?

Jerry, given my poor photo skills, if you want I could take measurements of the case for you if you feel it's something unusual. I might even consider sending it to you for examination prior to listing for sale here in the hope you find some small factor that increases it's value. Let me know what you think...thanks.

Wayne..I like to be upfront with my opinions. Few collectors will be interested in tour holster in it's present condition.
Would a good cleaning, spot re-dye and leather treatment add or detract from the value? I get this question often. Take your used car down to the for sale lot, dirty, chipped paint, black junk all over the floor mats. Will cleaning it up help you sell it for more? Most people would say yes.

The insect chewed portions.. the insect damage could probably be re-dyed if someone chose to, as the affected areas are generally smooth - the only ate the finish, not the leather itself. UHH nope. The epidermis has been removed. That's the very smooth very thin outer layer. These insects had to eat something so they licked the icing off the cake.
IMO this holster needs a very thorough cleaning, dying and some lanolin. Dying will not FIX these chewed areas..but it will minimize the damage as much as possible. Help to blend them in and they will not be so stark.
Price..Unfortunately for this holster..before poor storage and voracious insects it was durn near mint. The buckle still has almost all it's original paint. Could have been in the$6-700 range easy enough. ANY damage like this to a mint holster is a disaster. As the holster is now I would agree with previous posts. I have a MINT brown Luger holster that would easily be worth $700 except it has a name in ink under the top lid. Now it's a $3-400 holster. MINT is mint and anything less is a kick in the crotch. A name is different than exterior leather damage..
IMO investing say 50 bucks in making the holster look as good as it possibly can might not bring you a huge return but at least it's not money wasted and makes a holster that much easier to sell.
Right now it looks pretty knarley.

Jerry, if I had it cleaned and re-dyed could I then represent it as an honest holster, say on this forum or would I have to disclose it as"restored"? Honestly, looking at the insect damage thru a magnifying glass, the pores in the leather are intact, so I think a refresh would indeed be worth it. After all, it was meant to be cared for and polished during it's actual service life, so a touch up and conditioning prior to attempting to sell it could, as you say, add value, without misrepresenting the provenance of the piece. Thanks to all for the advice.

Wayne
Holsters are somewhat different than firearms. It is considered ok to have them re-stitched, cleaned up and repaired. However, that work must be done by an expert. As far as I am concerned that can only mean Jerry Burney (lugerholsterrepair) His work is correct. professional and reasonable. He is the only one I will let work on my holsters. Try him I guarantee you will be happy. Bill

Bill..Thanks for the kind words..I appreciate it.

Jerry, if I had it cleaned and re-dyed could I then represent it as an honest holster, say on this forum or would I have to disclose it as"restored"? Some people mention work done on holsters some don't. In your case the cat's out of the bag!

Jerry,
What's the thought behind these spacer blocks?
I can fit a luger in mine without difficulty.
Brendan
1940 Weiss
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps2551e0b8.jpg
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i.../DSC034109.jpg

Brendan, I can't imagine. Most Luger holsters do not have them. I see these very rarely, I could only speculate as I have no actual knowledge as to why they might exist. They may be seen on one or more manufacturers..I don't recall ever seeing one on a WW1 era Luger holster. I have no studies or information. I just know I see them from time to time.
One of those mysteries.

Jerry - you'd need a strong thimble to stitch that edge!
Brendan

Another remarkable feature of this holster is that the leather has been routed prior to the stitch being put in so the thread would lie below flush on the inside of the holster.

Jerry, is this typical and I've simply missed this feature in the past?

Jerry,
Would like to offer you a limited partnership opportunity: I send holster to you for inspection and cleaning, with my cost set at $150 plus Your cleaning/restoration costs accrued at an additional $50 - $200 net cost of inventory for us as partners. Asking you to act as seller, If it sold for $200' I'd recover my $150 and you the $50 invested in cleaning, but hopefully, Using your expertise and reputation to market and upsell the refurbished product on various site, we could split any profit above 200 baseline 50/50. Arrangement would be governed by mutual agreement with this simple structure and trust between Airborne brothers. Please consider and comment as to your interest. I think this gets a good vintage holster into the market, inspected and validated for Provence and condition giving buyers a fair opportunity to gain a potentially important, vintage piece from trustworthy sources. Please let me know. Thank you.
Wayne

Wayne..OK..Sounds like a plan. I am leaving the high mountains in a week for my Winter home in Yuma AZ. I will be there on the 15th God willing. If you care to send it there in a week or so we will go partners. Shouldn't take long to clean, spot dye and treat with some lanolin. I have more than a dozen holsters I got in today but most are complicated..mag pouches, rod sleeves or complete re builds. I can sandwich yours in front. I am working 12 hour days but have to stop soon and pack my stuff.
Thanks!

Jerry Burney
11491 S. Guadalupe Dr.
Yuma AZ 85367