NOS 4inch Luger barrels
 

Hi new to this forum, but have been a member on Jans forum. My father brought back from WW2 several Luger related items and a 1938 s/42 Luger. The thing I'm inquiring about is the value of 4 NOS Luger barrels he has brought back. Anyone care to venture a guess at what they might be worth?
The barrels are pristine never been installed on a gun.

Are the bores not shiny and clear of light pitting?

If selling on ebay, maybe $100-$150 if in that condition (not pristine inside)?

If actually much nicer than closer to $200 - but that is pushing retail IMO

And I seem to remember hearing about these a few years ago :)

Ed I did have these on Jans forum. I have not run a brush or patch down these barrels. I am thinking it's either some grease or dust w/grease. I'll check them later and get back. Thanks for the reply

I sure hope that's grease! [Pic below]

Might want to clean those out before you post them for sale. :rolleyes:

There has been quite a few NOS 4" barrels on GB/eBay in the last year or so; $200 does seem to be top [asking] price...No idea what they have actually sold for...

The E/623 inspector was apparently active at:

WaA623 660 Steyr-Daimler-Puch
Steyr (AT) 1939-40 WaA623 bnz Steyr-Daimler-Puch
Steyr (AT) 1940-45
Also a reference to him being at Radom in Poland.

marc

NOS barrels
 

Ed my curiosity got the better of me and I had to find out if the insides of the barrels were as nice as the outsides. I ran a brush down two of them with some solvent(gun scrubber I think).
And took two pictures. It WAS grease with some dust. Must have been in there since he got them. Where my father got them is anybodys guess. Never was told the story before he passed. Anyway here is the photos of the insides.

At least one of these barrels has a witness mark.

--Dwight

I can't see one. The barrel on the right might look like a withness mark on the flange but I think it is just a light reflection.

Dwight, I concur with Ron Wood. I don't see any witness marks... only reflections...

Maybe or maybe not, I've examined al those photos, I can't really tell for sure if that mark is a "witness mark", probably not, only "Oldmannow" can tell it.

I've a Steyr 660 code 1940 k98 with the same 623 WaffenAmt stamps.

Gents:
Look at the very first photo. Witness mark?
dju

4" replacement barrels...
 

I have bought quite a few over the years.. the Steyr are by far the most common.. Mauser marked ones, are somewhat more rare??... I have paid between $75.00 to $150.00 for examples as shown above.. and sold them for $100.00 to $150.00 as well... never got $175.00 for any of them??... I need items just like that for my re-barreling service...I would be interested in all four if priced attractively??... :eek:... best to all, til...lat'r.....GT:jumper:

This begs the question; what else might have been in arms reach? Does anyone have a time machine handy?

Mike

My My We are a skeptical bunch in this forum. If you would look at my first post picture # 1 and # 2 there is a 623 WaffenAmt stamp. I promise you all 4 have the same numbers.
I don't have a time machine but can share some of the other stuff my father brought back from the war.

they are talking about a 'witness mark', a small hash mark about 1/8" long stamped across the barrel flange. :)

It aligns with a similar mark on the receiver. Sometimes. ;)

My bad.. I was confused. I thought they were speaking of the WaffenAmt stamps. There are no witness marks on any of the barrels. Is that a bad thing?

No, not at all. It most probably means they are not 'pulls', but are, as you stated, old stock that was never installed. :thumbup:

So, Oldmannow, is that a straight line across the flange ring in the very first photo. It should be on the very bottom of the barrel, 180 degrees opposite the front sight block.
dju

I don't see anything remotely resembling a witness mark after enlarging the photos. It is simply a reflection.
Oldmannow, it seems your Father had access to the Mauser factory either end of war or immediately post war.

Any stories to share?

I really wish I had some grand story to tell you guys but I don't. If I remember correctly the "story" he told me was he won the Luger in a poker game. Where he got the other stuff is and will remain a mystery. He passed before I could ask him anything about the spoils of war he brought back.

I again looked over each barrel very carefully and could not find any of them with a witness mark

Right before my grandfather passed away, I asked him the story of how he acquired the Arisaka that he gave me. Turned out that it was not from his WW2 service, but a guy he knew, knew he liked guns and asked him, hey, you want a Japanese Rifle? of course he said yes and then I got it years later :) Sometimes the story is not too thrilling :)

What may have been within hands reach at the time?

National Socialism.

I do not see any witness mark, they appear to have never been installed.

The bores are pristine as well. Are you selling them?

I really didn't mean to tease anyone with the stuff he brought back. I just thought some of you would just like to see some of it. I am just having a hard time deciding if I want to sell any of it or keep it. I just need a little time to think about it. Sorry if I got any ones hopes up.

No problem. Thank you for posting them for us to see. If and when you decide to let them go put a realistic price on them and let your fellow collectors have a shot at them. Good luck.

Hi,

Unless these have the little step near the front of the chamber, they look like new production items to me.

Sieger

I "think" that the fourth photo in the original post shows the chamber area with a heavy coating of grease, but it appears that the stepped chamber is visible in that photo even through the grease... but it's an easy matter to settle. Can we please see that same barrel shot of the chamber with the grease cleaned out of it?

Thanks.

John,

Also the texture of the finish up around the sight dovetails don't look right to me either. For that matter, the general texture of the finish looks a bit too ruff and not adequately polished for a barrel made during that period.

These look like some very fine barrels I purchased from GunParts Corporation about 20 years ago or so, texture, type and color of finish, everything. They didn't have the chamber step I discussed above, but rather a "modern" style straight chamber.


Sieger

I also noticed this...The front sight band looks a bit 'rough'...Maybe just the light...

Sieger,
GPC was making their own barrels at that time... and as I recall the quality control was sometimes good and sometimes not so good.

I doubt that they included any waffenampt stamps on their new production.

John,

On second thought, I may have purchased these barrels from SARCO. They were of good quality and were German made.

Perhaps someone else added the waffenampt markings, later, in an attempt to boost.

The step in the chamber will tell the story, however.


Sieger

I'll get them out of the safe again and clean ALL of them. Not tonight I've already had to many cocktails. I don't know how to photograph them in a way to show I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes. I'm NOT. I just thought you guys would like to see. Anyway tomorrow I'll get them out of the safe and do my best to photo them to your guys liking.

Ken, thanks for showing your stuff. Each new (to us) pistol or artifact is like a puzzle, and those interested jump in and try to solve part of it. It's usually mysterious because most records that were meticulously compiled concerning specs and production then are now just...gone. I'm astonished by mention of "wool pulling" because I have not had that feeling at all as I've followed this thread for the last few days. You're simply attempting to sort out the stuff you've inherited, and the forum community is doing their best to hash things out and come to a consensus about exactly what it is that you have, thus simultaneously giving you a leg up in your quest and exercising the sometimes crazy interest we have in all the facets and nuances that the Parabellum pistol presents. No one has disparaged your offerings, although to a casual observer who is unfamiliar with the scene might infer such a thing. The light of open inquiry and examination of these little chunks of history can seem harsh and painful and disappointing to some, and the process can doubly try one's patience on account of these feelings.

I realize your foray into this unfamiliar realm may be only temporary--many come for assessment/analysis of just one pistol they're involved with, inherited, etc. (parts and accessories, too, such as your case), grab the info they need, and go on about their lives, albeit better informed about their steel or leather. Others have just purchased a Luger, or want to, and are beginning to test with their toes the waters of a truly fascinating and satisfying interest/activity, to stay for a while, coming to learn and share, receive and give whatever knowledge and expertise is on the table. Either way, we have the chance to look at Lugers!

We look forward to seeing all those clean, shiny barrels tomorrow. So hang in there for a bit more and soon enough, bingo!, you'll know all that can be known about What your barrels are, When they were made, and Who made them! What may come off as nit-picking and disagreement is simply part of the process...I assure it is not personal.

Whatever time you spend treading the hallowed halls of "Luger University", be confident that it is not a "you and us guys" thing, since, by signing up, you are part of a truly international endeavor and are part of the 'us".

I agree with Dave [ithacaartist] that no one is accusing you of 'wool pulling'. There is an old saying "Buy the gun, not the story". We've all heard stories, from our fathers, uncles, granddads, friend's fathers, etc. All Lugers were carried by officers, it was captured/taken during battle such-and-such. Usually not so much. Our loved ones put the best spin on what may have been a poker winning, or a trade for food or cigarettes, or taken from a pile of turn-ins after the peace. Or, like my Godfathers bringbacks, taken from the assembly line when the factory was liberated. Sounds much better if it was surrendered after a bitter fight. :)

It is a sad fact that as the WW II veterans die off, old trunks in attics are being opened after 80 years and unknown treasures being discovered. It's always a delight to investigate these items, try to place the veteran with the item at the location where he obtained it. Minute clues can help pin down the where/why/how/when. :)

On the other hand, there are unscrupulous scoundrels who come here and ask for something to be looked at and discussed, which item then finds its way onto eBay/Gunbroker.com, ArmsAmerica etc and is described as 'authenticated' and the discussion on this forum cited as proof... :mad:

The East German post-war barrels show up fairly often, they are at least as well made as the Third Reich barrels, and for the most part, unused. If I were looking for a new 4" 9mm barrel, I would look for one of them.

Armorers replacement barrels, which I would suspect yours are, are another good choice for a replacement. Quality can vary, but they're still a sought-after item.

I've never considered captured enemy artifacts having any sentimental value. Being given a father's 45 auto that he carried, yes. Some Luger he found in a ditch/won in a card game/was handed by some German soldier, no.

As I said earlier, I've seen them listed for as much as $200. You pays you money and you takes you chances. :thumbup:

I'm done. Probably all this stuff is humped up or not worth anything.

oldmannow,

Your barrels lack the original Luger design step chambers, therefore, I doubt their authenticity as original equipment period replacement barrels.

Just my opinion, though a learned one.


Sieger

Can someone show me what the inside of the barrel is suppose to look like?

I'm sorry I do not have a photo but here is a design drawing that illustrates the step at the front of the chamber. It was developed and patented by Georg Luger to provide a positive seal for the straight-sided 9mm case. It is difficult to photograph but you can see it clearly if you look into the chamber.

soSimple:
Old design from 1902 to around 1940 has a different shape than modern 9mm Para.
Chamber is not totally conical, you have a 5mm strait bore just after the beginning of riffling.


Does this apply to the barrels I'm showing?

so, are these unfinished barrels?

Would still make a nice display in my opinion. I have a couple of 'armorer' boxes that have spaces for barrels - presently i have used barrels in them :)