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-   -   Cracking RH grip... (https://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=32396)

Zorba 03-22-2014 07:02 PM

Cracking RH grip...
 
Just got back from the range where I was mainly shooting my new Ruger MK III, but I also sent 30 rounds downrange with my Luger. I could feel the RH grip rotating/torquing under fire, when I got home and dismounted it, it had developed a fairly sizable crack on the top end near the notch for the backside of the magazine release. I was able to repair the crack quite nicely with superglue, but obviously don't want to continue this practice...

I'd observed this behavior before, but not this bad and not without quite a few more rounds through the gun.

What am I doing wrong/what should I look for in order to get the grip to behave itself? There isn't anything obvious to casual inspection by my untrained eye.

These are, by all accounts, older, but repro grips.

mrerick 03-22-2014 07:13 PM

Hi Zorba,

Even original grips had to be fitted to some extent. You may also be dealing with warping or other humidity related changes in the wood.

Should you need to repair a crack again in the future, consider using the water based "Gorilla Glue". I've found this to be very strong and dimension stable over time.

Super Glue is an anaerobic setting Cyanoacrylate adhesive.

Marc

Zorba 03-22-2014 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick (Post 252242)
Super Glue is an anaerobic setting Cyanoacrylate adhesive.

Yes, this I know as it is used to tighten tuning pins in pianos - but you consider the water based Gorilla Glue better than CA (for grip repair) because? Is it an aliphatic resin glue like "Elmer's Carpenter's Glue" or another formulation? Hot hide glue has become my favorite for most wood projects, but probably wouldn't be the best here as it exhibits inferior shear strength.

*shrug* - I dunno which would be best!

318is_Parabellum 03-22-2014 09:35 PM

Gentlemen,
I don't profess to have a lot of experience with wood repair, but I have had some experience with both cyanoacrylate and gorilla glue.

Put simply, cyanoacrylate does not expand in place the way I've seen Gorilla glue have. I would have serious doubts that gorilla glue would produce a nearly invisible repair, whereas I've had good luck with cyanoacrylate glue repairing a slightly cracked M-14 stock (good strong invisible repair). I've had trouble with Gorilla glue expanding as it cured. It is a strong bond, but hardly invisible.

Just my $0.02, your experience may differ!

Zorba 03-22-2014 09:40 PM

I think - with emphasis on the word "THINK", that there's both an expanding, and a non-expanding Gorilla glue. I've used the expanding type - and its darn fine glue for applications that can tolerate it - but have zero experience with the non-expanding type which I have a fuzzy recollection of seeing in the store. Beyond that, I know nothing! :eek:

Edward Tinker 03-22-2014 09:43 PM

Get different grips

I have some atrocious aftermarket I would send you for free - email me

Ed

Zorba 03-22-2014 10:01 PM

They must be truly atrocious - PM sent! LOL!

stressed 03-22-2014 10:41 PM

I have some atrocious aftermarket byf black plastic grips if you prefer - lol. That's why I like the plastic for shooting

Zorba 03-22-2014 11:57 PM

I'm really feelin' the love here, 2 offers of atrocious Luger grips in one day! Nowhere else but here! :thumbsup::evilgrin::eek::jumper::rockon::cheers::bowdown:

SteveM 03-23-2014 07:54 AM

2 Attachment(s)
I would get a pair of the EG bullseye grips. They're not ugly but they aren't free either.

mrerick 03-23-2014 09:01 AM

I've found that the surface bond created by cyanoacrylate glues ends up being more prone to breaking than the bond created by glues that expand into the wood pores and set.

That's why you see the Elmers type glues used extensively in woodworking. The Gorilla Glue is a stronger setting version of those products.

The key is that you moisten the wood itself prior to applying the resin glue, then clamp them together to ensure that the glue expands into the wood pores. It's also critical not to overuse the glue.

The project I did with this was replacement of a million dollar chip. After re-staining the wood, the repair is hardly visible. The seam line is at the base of a groove.

Marc

318is_Parabellum 03-23-2014 09:38 AM

The VoPo bullseye grips are what I really want for my Russian capture Simson. I have a set of the crappy (made in India?) fitting wood grips on it now.

I appreciate the information regarding different glues with wood repair. Luger University, online!:thumbup:

stressed 03-23-2014 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 318is_Parabellum (Post 252282)
The VoPo bullseye grips are what I really want for my Russian capture Simson. I have a set of the crappy (made in India?) fitting wood grips on it now.

I appreciate the information regarding different glues with wood repair. Luger University, online!:thumbup:

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/466010.htm

You're welcome. :thumbup:

gunbugs 03-23-2014 09:24 PM

I use Brownells Acra-glas gel epoxy to "bed" loose grips, and have had excellent results.

kzullick 03-23-2014 11:26 PM

Stop hugging it so tight! But seriously, I know 4 gunsmiths and they all use super glue on cracked grips or stocks, if completely broken they use Titebond III.

John Sabato 03-24-2014 10:15 AM

I have ONE RIGHT SIDE EG bullseye grip in great condition. Got it a lot of Luger parts won on ebay years ago. Does anyone have an orphan LEFT grip that they need a mate for?

ithacaartist 03-24-2014 11:13 AM

I think loose grips will get looser with shooting. When fired, the grip frame is propelled backward by the shot. Since you are holding the grips steady, the effect is to slam them forward in relation to the grip frame. What ordinarily resists this would be the forward edges of the material remaining on the backsides of the grips that fits a small fraction of an inch into the open, relieved areas of the sides of the frame. This interface should be snug. A rattling fit will allow the grips to be shocked forward every shot, compressing or further eroding the wood necessary for a snug fit.

In order to avoid this "running start" at messing up the grips, I've added a dab of 1-hr. epoxy where necessary to take up the play. To avoid a lot of fitting/filing/sanding after the epoxy has set, I wait until the epoxy isn't sticky any more, but still a bit :plastic". Just the right amount of repair material will be squished out of the way when the grip is squeezed into place, and the thickness of the epoxy shim will be quite precise when left to cure. One smooth layer of HanidWrap is something I'd recommend for protecting the metal's finish.

Zorba 04-05-2014 09:01 PM

Thanx to Mr. Tinker, I now have a new set of grips:

http://www.doubleveil.net/share/Luger-StagGrips.jpg

Brand new, wood based "stag" grips. I actually think I like them - they're MUCH fatter in the hand than the regular style. My wife and I are headed for the range tomorrow, I'll see how I like shooting with them - my wife may like them better too. I need to test out my latest G.T. sourced and fxo sprung triple-kay mag as well.

Thank you Edward!!

G.T. 04-05-2014 09:32 PM

looks Good!
 
Hi Zorba, good luck at the range! Anxious to know how the latest trip. K mag works with the fxo spring! They're turning out to be the best magazine on the block??... :eek:... ugliest magazine as well??.... :thumbup:... best to you, til...lat'r....GT:jumper:

Lugerdoc 04-07-2014 08:00 PM

John, I could probably use your DDR right side (pm sent). The easiest fix that I've found for loose PO8 grips, is to place a small rubber O ring under the grip screw, which will push up the grip when tightened. TH

318is_Parabellum 04-07-2014 08:19 PM

3 Attachment(s)
'Doc,
I sent John a pm regarding his vopo R side grip early this afternoon. I received a set from Numrich today, and the RH fits even worse than the crappy made in India Sarco grips that were on my Simson :mad:

Looking at the various photos of "Vopo" lugers with the East German bullseye grips, mine don't measure up at all, and I have serious doubts that mine are authentic. For $42 shipped, I expected something that looked more like what was pictured in SteveM's post above, or at least better than what I got.:confused: Are these grips real? I'm angry, and I feel like I've been ripped off.

ETA: Mods, sorry for the attempted thread hijack. Please move this post to its own thread. Thank you.

John Sabato 04-08-2014 09:48 AM

I am still looking for that right grip. I should find it tonight.

Tom, 318is_Parabellum has first dibbs, but if his grips are both reproduction, I would recommend he send them back, in which case I will contact you about the right grip.

From what I see in the photos above, it appears that the grips you received for $42.00 may not be genuine, but reproductions of the EG grips. As soon as I find my genuine grip I will be better able to tell. I should find it tonight. 318is_Parabellum, How well does the left grip fit?

318is_Parabellum 04-08-2014 10:02 AM

John,
Thanks again for your assistance! The left grip seems to fit pretty well, truth be told. I've done some more looking at photos of 'vopo' lugers, and I'm becoming more convinced that what I have are reproductions. The 'bullseye' just doesn't look right, nor does the color of plastic.

Is Numrich a reputable company? This is why I absolutely hate ordering stuff sight unseen, or at least based upon a low-resolution photo. Ugh. Just my luck.

ETA: Confirmed. My "vopo" grips are cheap plastic repros. I'm sending them back to Numrich. I guess I have to go the 'WTB' route, and hope. Apologies again for the thread hijack.

danielsand 04-08-2014 07:59 PM

I hope Zorba doesn't mind his thread beeing jacked?

Numrich? Had good and BAD experience with them over the years. Some good Mauser (Yugo M48, Spanish "La Coruna"), and some good M1/M2 Carbine parts I purchased from them. Latest purchase was a TOTAL disappointment. Wanted a set of "shooting grips" for my Erfurt, and after a LONG deliberation, decided on wood repros. From Numrich. "Laser cut". My foot!!! Laser must've been WAAAAY off!

I expected "some fitting", but.......oversize grips CAN be fitted (and I'm pretty good at that!), but UNDERSIZED are a total loss! I was so discusted, I didn't even bother to send them back. GARBAGE.

Plastic repros just look too cheap, and I would not insult my Imperial Parabellum with anything looking CHEAP. I was on the fence about faux stag for a while, but faux is just that,....faux.

Anyone knows somebody that MAKES custom wood grips to order? (like in the perfect world,......wax imprint of the frame shipped to the master wood worker, and he makes the pair to the EXACT dimensions?)

I've seen pics of some NICE repros fitted, and they had all kinds of designs, and other stuff carved into them. Where do people find those? Money is no object.

Zorba 04-09-2014 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielsand (Post 253020)
I hope Zorba doesn't mind his thread beeing jacked?

Doesn't matter to me - I got some good info, some good advice, and a pair of free grips outta the deal. Thread morphs are good, I for one am learning even more! :jumper:

ithacaartist 04-09-2014 09:16 AM

[QUOTE=danielsand;253020
Anyone knows somebody that MAKES custom wood grips to order? [/QUOTE]

You might want to rattle the chain of Hugh Clark, who is a forum member well able to do this job.

Lugerdoc 04-09-2014 10:48 AM

User, If money is no object, the closest repros to the originals are the NIL grips from Germany. I stopped stocking them when the dealer cost went over $100/set. TH

antonio_liviero 04-09-2014 11:30 AM

Daniel,
I purchased a pair of grips from Nill Griffe and they are really well done, but they still needed a little work to be fitted in my Alphabet Commercial.
Anyway, this is the link to Nill's website.

http://www.nill-griffe.com/

Regards,
Antonio


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