Is there anybody out there ?
 

Is there anybody out there who can steer this Luger collecting newby in the right direction as far as 7.65MM , approx. 90 grn. , round/truncated cast bullets by a reputable manuf. may be found ? I`m even willing to get on a long...... waiting list.
Need help ," Please " Thanks , Don

Wish I could help, I just use Fiocchi 7.65mm because I can get it locally at Pinto's in Renton. (Hello to a fellow Washingtonian, by the way). I take it lead bullets are preferred for you?

I know Hornady makes a 90 grain jacketed and hollowpoint but not sure about cast (most of that I found whilst looking was much heavier than 90 grain). I thought Buffalo Arms might have some (checked for you) but no, they didn't.

Michael ,
Go figure , almost neighbors . Thanks for looking , and the info on Pintos , have heard of them but have never gone there , that's about to change . As far as preferring cast over jacketed , I was hoping cast would be more available .
Will PM you Thanks , Don

Don,

Feel free and always glad to meet fellow locals who are Luger owners! The Pinto's folks are very pleasant to deal with as they're shooters and collectors like we are. They seem to have a fairly regular stockpile of 30 Luger (usually the FMJ) and I know Bullseye in Tacoma has both though a bit pricier. Pinto's also has the odd Webley or Luger passing through (there's a .30 calibre one in right now). It's a 50s rebarrel, they think, with this odd target sight and 5.5" barrel. Please feel free to PM if I can be of any help!

Michael

Don, you are correct about theoretical availability, but on the condition that you have a bullet mold and some old tire weights around! I've also found that 93 gr. .30 Luger bullets, even in FMJ, are difficult to procure for reloading. Might be trying out the lightened-up/drilled out 110 gr. FMJ for .30 carbine--There's a thread about it somewhere...

David , I`m not ready to fire up my old drill press just yet , although I must admit it`s beginning to look dismal. I have some factory loads , and some Sierra 85 grn RN bullets that I`m assembling as dummies for O.A.L. before I get serious , and shoot this thing . I was , and still am very interested in cast lead , as I have never assembled rounds with cast bullets before , been scared silly over leading . So here I am ready willing and.........very grateful for new found interests , and friends . Thanks , Don

Hi,

To save you some time and aggravation, please read my sticky on how to determine proper O.A.L. with a new bullet type.

The original DWM O.A.L.s for round nose and truncated cone were 1.173 and 1.14 respectively.

For a truncated cone type of bullet, Lee makes a mold for the .32-20, in 90 grain SWC that looks about perfect to me for a 7.65 Luger. Sized to .311 or .312, these should be just the ticket for a Parabellum. The two cavity mold sells at Midway for less than $20.00 and the Lee Mold number for it is 314-90-SWC.

If you don't roll your own, try King Shooters Supply for either their lead .310 or .313 round nose 92.0 grainers, as these should work perfectly in your Parabellum (King Shooters Supply, King of Prussia, PA, Tel. 610-491-9901).

Please know that the 7.65 Luger's groove is at .311, so feel free to shoot .312 to .313 lead through it, as I have for decades. Do make sure your sizer button matches up with the diameter bullet you are trying to seat, or you will have lead shaving when trying to seat them. Lead shaving will totally destroy any chance for accuracy, of course, with just about any lead bullet.

If lead bullets are properly lubed, they will not lead your barrel, so don't think a minute more about it.

If you have any particular questions, feel free to PM me with them.

I hope this helps!!


Sieger

If you are looking for a nice 92gr LRN bullet(and not a loaded cartridge with LRN), then look at Western Bullet Company in Wyoming(I am pretty sure it is Wy). I have loaded a lot of these LRN bullets in 30 Luger brass, and can recommend them highly. They are also nice people to deal with. I know of no factory ammo loaded with 90-92gr Lead bullets.

rhuff,

They are using the old 92 grain Lyman #311227 mold.

When loaded to the proper length of 1.173 inches, will the neck of the case cover the top grease groove?

Thanks!!


Sieger

Is there anybody out there ?
 

Bob , Richard ,
Thanks to both of you for your info on cast bullets , I`m going to attempt to contact both outfits and get on there backorder list , as I`m more than sure I`ll end up , but nothing ventured , nothing gained . I appreciate your help very much .
Thanks , Don

Any idea on the delivery time on items ordered from Western Bullet Co? I paid for a order and did not even get a Email about my purchase. I am starting to wonder if threw my money away. Also the website did not say anything about backorders?

Hi,

It sounds like they need a good, stout follow-up call from you!


Sieger

Bob,

I am loading this bullet to where the case mouth is just barely above the grease groove, to an OAL of 1.150+/-. Buy seating the bullet thusly, and using a collet type crimp, one can sort of utilize the grease groove as a cannalure to help prevent set back on feeding into a handgun chamber. My 1921 DWM Luger likes this bullet, possibly because of the .310-.311 dia.

Pinto's in Renton... My favorite gun shop. Great people that I have known for years (Long before they opened this gun shop)....

By the way, I live in Kent also....

Hi,

Have you had any problems with jamming when shooting from a fully loaded 8 round magazine?

Also, what is your most successful powder with this load combination?

Thanks!


Sieger

I don't load my mags to 8 rounds. I load to 5 rounds, as that is the amount I shoot be it revolver or semi-auto. Those rounds are loaded with Bullseye powder, but I plan to use Unique with the next batch. I don't have 100% reliability with these rounds, but pretty good functioning. I am experiencing zero bullet setback. I am hoping for improvement with the slower powder. I wish I had a good load for Power Pistol, but I don't. To me, these Lugers are a real challenge as to springs(all), mags, OAL, bullet profile, powder type and loadings. I may never get 100% reliability out of my 1921 DWM, but it won't be because I haven't tried, and tried, and tried. A work in progress.

Hi,

Power Pistol is my best 9mm powder to date, and, frankly, I feel it would be a better powder to experiment with, in the 7.65mm, than Unique.

I'd start out with about 4.5 grs of Power Pistol, moving up 1/10 of a grain, until I found a load that would just activate the hold open device. This would be my base load. I'd then progress up 1/10 of a grain at a time until I either found an accurate load or started seeing pressure signs or malfunctions started. There should be quite a range between 4.5 grs and when pressure or malfunctions start.

I'd also try some of the other brand lead bullets I suggested above, as they look like they could easily be loaded full proper length, that being 1.173 inches of O.A.L.

With a good recoil spring, a good Mec-Gar magazine and a good extractor spring, your 1921 should function perfectly and accurately. Really, there are not all that many variables, once you can isolate each and properly address them.

Good shooting!!


Sieger

Sieger ,
The 92 grn hard cast lead RN bullets from Kings Shooters supply that you recommended arrived before the ink on the check ( so to speak ) had dried . Many , Many thanks , if these shoot as good as they look , it will be outstanding . I loaded up 8 dummy rounds to check magazine function , which was fair , with one jam do to set back , which occurred on all rounds to one degree or another , so I have crimped them using a Lee Factory Crimp die . This appears to put a good hold on the bullet , but sets them back also . Like Mr.rhuff said ,"a work in progress". Thanks Don

Hi,

Did you order the .310s or the .313s?

Which sizer button are you using in your die set, the one for .308 bullets or the one for .311 bullets, as they usually have both available.

Are you loading to full length, that being 1.173 inches (this always seems long, but that's the way it is). You might want to read my sticky on how to determine proper O.A.L. when trying a new bullet. This could be very helpful.

With either lead or FMJ, I've never experienced set-back with the 7.65 Luger cartridge, so let's isolate and cure the necessary variables.

Thanks!


Sieger

Crimping on a non-cannalured bullet will not stop setback of the bullet, neck tension is what does that. In fact, if you overcrimp the case mouth, you can make things worse. What is the diameter of your case neck expander? What is the measured diameter of your bullet? In the 30 luger brass, I strive for .003-.005in. of interference fit so as to get as much neck tension as possible. You will still get a few thousands of setback, but that is of no concern. If setback is excessive, that is concerning. I have started to add a cannalure to my jacketed bullets, and then the collet crimp into the cannalure to give myself the best protection for setback. My 30 luger rounds are loaded near/at max loadings, and I can not afford setbacks.



Apparently Sieger types faster that I do!!

I have been loading my 30 Luger jacketed bullets with Unique powder for some time now with very good results. I am very comfortable with using Unique, as I have used it forever. It is a bit more forgiving than PP, at least in my way of thinking.


What powder are you using in your 30 Luger handloads?

I've loaded and shot 100s of 7.65 Luger cartridges with Hornady's .312 XTP 100 and 85 grain. They are and were extremely accurate in all of the 7.65mm Lugers I've owned. No pressure or fowling problems at all. These bullets were designed for the Win. 32-20, which I have also loaded many rounds for. I've slugged both rifle and revolver 32-20 barrels that measured from .309 to .313 and they functioned well in all of them. I also use them in 2 Ruger .32 H&R Mags with a .309, and.310 bore dia.

http://www.hornady.com/store/XTP-XTP-MAG

Hi,

My best has been IMR SR4756, but the MBAs have decided to discontinue it.

Be advised that the original DWM loading for the 7.65 was with a 93 gr bullet traveling at 1,150 fps (350 mps).

If I can ever find any powder to buy, I'd like to do a very thorough study of the currently available medium/slow pistol powders for both the 9mm and 7.65mm Lugers.

Wish me luck in finding any powder to buy?!?!?


Sieger

Hello Mr. Sieger ,
To start with , yes I`m loading dummy rounds as close as I can get to 1.173 inches , and I`m checking those with my mag`s as you have recommended , although I will be sending them (mag`s) to G.T. for a thorough going over soon . The setback I experienced was due to improper die set up I`m thinking because I have loaded up a few more dummy rounds and they cycle through with much less setback .
The expander die measures at .307/8 depending on how I frown . The bullets are .32 cal. at .312/3 again with the frown thing . I`m not real comfortable with the Lee dies I have , and will more than likely pick up a Redding or Hornady set . The Lee dies came with the one expander plug only , I`m hoping that the new dies will have a couple of options in sizer buttons .

rhuff ,
The Lee dies I have came with a .307/8 expander plug , and the cast bullets I have are .312/3 . I have loaded a few more dummy rounds , with no crimp , and my set back is much improved ( operator malfunction ) . Probably in for a new set of dies that I`m more familiar with . By the way , that outfit in Montana ( Western Bullet Co. ),he has apparently lost his molds for the 90grn 30cal. cast bullets , and isn`t in a big hurray to replace it because he has not gotten back with me concerning a possible order , but that doesn`t diminish my appreciation for your recommendation , Thanks again , Don

JuneGrass & rhuff,

Here is how to cure your setback problem.

Go ahead and full length size your brass with the sizer button intended for the .308 diameter bullet.

Purchase, from Hornady, their separate expander die for the .32 acp cartridge. This will properly handle your .312 to .313 lead bullets, as well as, your FMJ .312 bullets. You will have to call them, as I haven't seen it for sale otherwise.

Expand your cases just enough for the lead bullet to clear the edge of the neck.

Seat to 1.173 inches of O.A.L. (no crimp, separate operation) with your seating die. If your necks want to buckle, then expand deeper until things square up.

Make sure you make the top of the neck parallel with the bullet as seated (separate operation) with your seating die.

You will now have a nice friction fit bullet, tight friction coming from the base of the neck.

You will no longer experience setback upon loading.

I've used this process for years with both my 7.65mm Luger and 8mm Nambu and it works great! I first learned this little trick while handloading for the 45-70 straight wall cartridge.

Hope this helps!


Sieger

Years ago I purchased a Lee 3 piece die set for 30 Luger. I tried and tried to get the results that I wanted/needed, but could not. The sizing die(inside)looked like it had been finished with a rattail file!!Maybe I just got a bad one that slipped by QC, I don't know. It would not correctly size the neck to correct ID/OD size for reloading. Also, the expander was too large for loading .308in bullets. Anyway, Two of the three dies went into the "round" filing drawer, and I kept the seater die. I use an RCBS sizing die with a correct size expander. I load on a Dillon 650, and reduced the powder through/expander by .001-.0015in. for good neck tension.