VintageGunGrips
 

Suck.

I got some repro black widow grips, and the angle isn't even close to being correct to the luger.

Gunsmith said it would look like a 3rd grader put them on if he tried to fit them. He also showed me where he sanded on them for fitment, and the sanded areas were plain as day and non-polishable. It's not injected molded plastic, more like a powder plastic compressed.

Anyone else make repro black widow grips? I got these from Numrich.

I have their Webley and Scott .32 calibre ones and, well, they're the only game in town for that one, alas. That V spring would break the original grips for my poor Webley semi-auto and that's why I went with them.

Sorry to hear about the Luger ones. I second the comment about the powder plastic type stuff. They're not bad but they're not great. I'd get them only if there wasn't another choice. Have you perhaps asked Luger Doc if he has some grips?

+ 1 on the "they suck"... :mad:

I got a set directly from the maker; black grooved plastic for my P-38. Warped, air holes, no grommets, no screw, poor fit. :grr:

The VoPo P-38 came with OEM brown Bakelite grips; I looked for the OEM black Bakelite but at the time, they were going for ~$200 pr... :(

I even tried Numrich's walnut grips (original grooved style) but the shape is just slightly different from original; just enough that they look grotesque...Too bad, as the fit, workmanship, and attention to detail are outstanding... :(

If I could get a mold made somehow I would have quality ones made. Obviously the mold they have is worthless IMO.

They mold directly from old worn grips. Here are two sets of their grips (from their site) for the FN1900 .32 auto...Besides the air holes, they even left in the gouges, scratches, and worn checkering... :soapbox:

Hmm. I wonder if you can see the FN on the handle of the FN in the handle of the FN.

Stressed, NC Ordnance also makes repro Black Widow grips, but they're not any better than the ones from Vintage. If you're lucky, you might find a set of postwar repros from Finland or Portugal that do fit well, but the boarders or checkering will be slightly different from the WW2 German made ones. TH

Yes, this is correct. I worked with the owner lady a couple of years ago, and they blended a new color to mimic the "red Swiss" grips. The first set they sent had air holes and was the thick, coarse style that appears on many of the Mauser Swiss variations. I sanded them down to get rid of the rough pattern--which also eliminated the offending air holes--and re-contoured them to get rid of the relatively hard corners, then re-checkered, as practice, in 20 lpi. The result is comfy shooter grips for my Mauser 29/70 9mm 6". The one failing I found is that the 70's Mauser grips' steel locating pins on the back will be reproduced in urethane, and they will snap off if you're not careful in fitting them! I wound up having to run a line of epoxy to line things up with the frame, one one side. Urethane has its limitations, seeming to be soft and brittle at the same time, but I think OK for sacrificial shooter grips.

Unfortunately, their stock of available molds is taken from examples sent in, and obviously the repros can be no better than the examples from which they were molded. The best case would be to find some excellent grips and have them copied for free.

The policy of the enterprise is to make a set of grips for free, for anyone who sends them a set of grips for which they don't already have a mold. I did this next, also in Swiss red, with the Mauser's original wood grips, which are the thinner, more comfortable style. I'd imagine that they would swap a pair of free grips for a the loan of any pair in better condition than what they may already have.

My next planned move is to send the urethane grips I re-checkered to have an extra pair, in exchange for giving them access to the new/different pattern to mold. This will also come in handy for making a set of Erma KGP69 grips based on a pair from which I have removed the thumb rest, filled the front and back in solid with epoxy putty, and plan to re-checker in borderless full pattern 20 lpi--something that will help the Erma mimic a P.08 a bit better.

Scott, was heat polishing tried, to re-establish the finish on the sanded areas?

Well I just ordered a set from NC ordinance, so we shall see the quality. Has anyone ordered the ones that are from the Czech republic on eBay? CZ makes good guns, maybe the folks there make good grips too.

You mean these? http://www.ebay.com/itm/GERMAN-ARMY-...#ht_253wt_1153

I have bought several sets of grips from this seller, ranging from workable to excellent. As already mentioned, the repro is only as good as the master you use to make the mold, but it seems like this guy can make perfect grips if he has access to good originals. For example: The grips for Radom, Sauer 38H and P.38 are excellent, but the PP grips are cast from a worn, bowed original set and not very good at all.

My only complaint would be that the resin he uses has a slightly dull look to it, but I have found that they are fairly easy to polish. Here's a picture of one original P.38 panel, and one from Vit-Zemanek (after polish). It takes a keen eye to spot the repro.

Which seller, Olle??? The one the thread is about, the other seller, or the seller/link you provided??? :confused:

Here's a set of NC Ordnance P-38 grips. They live in a box, in a dark drawer...Where no one will ever see them... :mad:

(I had wondered why so many people post here asking for P-38 screw + escutcheons...)

Yes, I mean Vit-Zemanek. Looks like I am ordering a set from him.

Sheepherder, those look to be junk! How could you "proudly" put your name on that?

Uh, well...I do the best I can with what I've got... :( :crying:

I was referencing the paper next to them - "made proudly by NC Ordinance"

So looks like the ones I have coming will be junk grips for modifying.

Yeah, I got a repro set for my FN Vest Pocket .25 that looked just like that.
I only needed one side and it'll have to do until I find something better.

Like stressed said I'm talking about Vit-Zemanek, which is the guy I linked to. He's good to deal with, I have bought several sets from him and I highly recommend his grips for Radom, P.38 and Sauer 38H.

Vit-Zemanek's P.38 grips come with the escutcheons molded in, but other reproductions may not (some are even threaded straight into the resin). I made a batch of reproduction screws/escutcheons a while back, they are available from Ron Clarin (his user name is "Ron C." here, and "Ron from Minnesota" on the P.38 forum).

Alright guys, I just ordered a set from Vit.

So when I get them, I will make a quality comparison between Vintage Gun Grips, NC ordinance and Vit Zemanek's with pictures.

This should help our members on what to purchase.

Just received my NC Ordinance grips today. Honestly they look better quality then the VintageGunGrips. Plastic is more glossy as well and not as dull and flat. Grip angle looks slightly less, which is good because it was over exaggerated on the VGG grips to the point where they were unusable. Luger is at gunsmiths house so I shall drop off grips tomorrow.

NC Ordinance grips:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...218_204958.jpg

My G date with grips fitted. Took 40 minutes to fit. Plastic is smaller grain then the VGG and sanded better. You could actually polish where you sanded. Will advise and fit Vit's after recieveing them.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...magejpeg_0.jpg

Just got my grips from Vit. These are by FAR the best quality reproduction grips out there IMO. Checkering is nice, and not flattened in areas like others. Color is a deeper black then others. Plastic material is far better quality then others. If you need black plastic grips, get the from Vit.

Vit's on top, and to right.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...306_165420.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...306_165248.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...306_165846.jpg

Well, this is going to make spotting fakes that much harder.....

It's a double edged sword, for sure. It's very nice to finally see some good reproductions, but some of them are almost too good. Vintage Gun Grips mark their repros with their own product number, but the quality makes them easy to identify as repros anyway. Vit's grips are made exactly like the originals, and the only giveaway is the weight. You can easily tell the difference if you hold one set of his grips in one hand, and one original set in the other. They also have a somewhat duller look than the originals, but that's something you can fix with a dab of polish and some elbow grease. They are very difficult to spot if you don't have any originals to compare with.

:surr:

:crying:

= = = = = = = = = = = = = =

WE HAVE OUR WAYS! HaHaHaHaHa !

(...If they are PLASTIC, and they AIN'T bakelite... They AIN'T ORIGINAL...):banghead:

I would love to see high quality reproduction grips available... but my logic in the above statement stands.

Once you have seen and handled just a few pairs of REAL byf black grips, telling them apart from the reproductions really isn't that hard. Bakelite has a unique feel and weight to it. The quality of the original grips is obvious, even when they are worn. And reproductions seldom get everything exactly right... cause if they do, they will be just as expensive to make as the originals are selling for now.

Like everything else at Luger University... it takes time and enough practical experience to tell them apart. :cheers:

Vit's grips fitted. They are also wider which is better if you have bigger hands.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...309_195513.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...309_195544.jpg

This is what I call quality fit.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...9_202643-1.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...309_200102.jpg

I just ordered a set of actual Bakelite repros. Seller claims they are indistinguishable from originals. Will update with pictures once they arrive.

Just a quick question while we are on grips:

Is a grip a grip in terms of fit? In other words do all P08 grips fit everything?

I thought I saw something about different grip angles, but can't seem to find that now.

OK, found the info on grip angle (thanks Ron). It appears all standard Lugers have the same grip angle, and I would imagine the same grip size shape. If that is incorrect, please let me know. Thanks.

Chris

There are variations in "fit" between Luger manufacturers (DWM, Erfurt, Simson, Krieghoff, Mauser, etc., and even from the same manufacturer over time)... this is caused by manufacturing techniques that permit tolerances to build up and change angles and curves ever so slightly... they would not be perceptible to the human hand, but to a hard plastic or wood grip, it will make a difference, and is the reason that grips (and other parts) require fitting.

stressed, could you show the insides of the grips?

Hey Scott - Did you ever get the Bakelite repros??? How were they???

Do they offer other mfg's grips besides Luger???

Link to site (or name of seller)??? :)