1937 S/42 Drilled barrel ... why?
 

Hi folks,

A few years ago after my uncle died, I was given this Luger as my Uncle (knowing I love guns) "wanted me to have it".

I take it out every now and again and look at it, oil it, etc. these are cool guns. I don't know the history behind the gun. It is worn in terms of bluing and has some pitting on the barrel. The serial numbers all match, and inside the gun seems fine (admittedly I am no Luger expert or gunsmith). But near the chamber end of the barrel about 1/2" in front of the flare/threaded portion it was drilled across the barrel horizontally (about 1/8" hole) clear through both side of the barrel.

I brought it to a gunsmith yesterday, but turns out he doesn't know much about Lugers. Of course in a gun shop when you bring in an old gun a group gathers around and everyone has an opinion (usually), and no one knew why a barrel would be drilled like this, or had ever seen this. One person felt that the gun had been "demilitarized" in this fashion.

For the most part the gun is complete, firing pin is there, etc. The two parts that are missing: mainspring and mainspring guide (maybe that helps solve the mystery?).

What do I want to do with the gun?
1) Would like to know if possible why the barrel is drilled.
2) If I could have the barrel replaced and shoot a few rounds from it, that would be awesome.
3) If it is not in (after barrel replacement) fire-able condition that would be OK (though not my preference); it's a piece that belonged to my uncle which I would want to keep, and my son has said he would love it some day as well (shootable or not).
4) Not looking to sell it, or for that matter restore it.

Any thoughts about this would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris

Photos will help, if nothing more than to satisfy our curiousity and start conversation...
Why was it drilled? I have no idea other than to make the gun harmless.
If you are not looking to sell or restore it, consider simply leaving it as-is, and buying a shooter Luger, which you can sell off once you are done with it. You'll probably end up sinking in more than you expect getting that one in shooting shape, and you can usually buy, then sell, a shooter at very little loss, or even small profit.
But please, send some photos.
dju

Well, thanks for the thoughts, but if I buy another Luger is another issue I guess. This one has sentimental value and I would like it to be "all that it can be". If that means it cannot be shot, I will still install the two missing pieces so the action functions when handled, and that's fine. Not sure they will help much as they show a Luger with a hole drilled through the barrel, but here goes:

Mainspring & mainspring guide missing...that's kind of odd; if you were going to make it 'unfireable' then the firing pin, spring, and guide would be more accessible and reasonable to remove... :confused:

But I suppose you could replace them and have an 'operable' pistol...Now, the barrel...yes, it's [fairly] easy to replace...But then it's not matching, but should be 'fireable'...

Hmmmm...Could you shoot it with the holes in the barrel??? that's an interesting question...gas would vent and probably drop bullet velocity/travel down considerably...Possibly even 'squib' [bullet never leaves barrel]...And there would be lots of debris from burning powder, maybe some bullet jacket slivers, vent out the holes...Dangerous to anybody to the side...But revolvers function with openings before the barrel, so it's possible...

Strange way to demil a Luger... :rolleyes:

That's exactly what I thought ("strange way to demil ...") and expected upon disassembly to have a missing firing pin, etc. but that's all there. "Could you shoot it with the holes in the barrel?" - huh, that's too funny, we had that same discussion at the gunsmith's shop, came to about the same conclusion. Personally, I don't want to fire any guns with holes such as this, but maybe you could get away with it.

From a safety point of view ... with a new barrel, what would make a gun like this unsafe (assuming that the action functions normally)?

Maybe the right question there is ... Do you know a reputable Luger gunsmith in the Northeast (I am in Vermont) that could determine if this pistol is safe to fire (after a new barrel)? . I do know one excellent gunsmith but I have not spoken with him as yet, not sure if he is interested in working on a Luger or has any experience with them.

I don't see this ever being a valuable collector's item (although it would look pretty decent with a reblue) so I am not too concerned about a non-matching barrel. I kind of like it as-is with the wear and tear. I do have the grips by the way which are in pretty nice shape, I decided to leave them off until the spring/guide are replaced though.

Chris

Another possibility is to have the holes welded back full. If the weld stops short of the internal lands and grooves, it would shoot as well as a revolver, anyway, without a path for extranea to escape the barrel to the sides. One could theoretically go all the way with the weld, but then take care that the lands and grooves are re-established properly. One might also have the existing barrel bored out and sleeved, then fill with weld down to the outsidde of the liner. Either of the last two methods would retain the matching number state of the barrel. It might need a little touch-up of the finish in the area repaired.

I wondered about that. I guess my only concern would be cost, seems like a liner and welds would cost more than a barrel (but maybe not?).

Welding is an idea; the lands & grooves could be left untouched by putting a copper rod down the barrel and then TIG/MIG welding it (the weld won't adhere to copper). But then you need to dress it and re-blue it...

A new barrel is probably the best idea, if you don't care about matching. I've had the thought that 'pulls' [removed used barrels] should be right at $100, but I paid more than that for one a few weeks back and looking at GB/eBay I'm seeing up to $200... :eek:

I would swap the barrel, keep the old barrel and then replace the parts - then have it checked by a gunsmith who knows lugers to see if they can get it firing safely - personally I would think yes. I would not have just anybody swap out a luger barrel unless they have done it before...

sounds like a easy way to have made it seem unfireable by someone - you see some guns used to have holes in the barrel to show they were demilled

this suggestion is strongly and definitely NOT recommended. :soapbox:

If you want to shoot this one, get the missing parts AND the barrel replaced. There are plenty of folks on this forum who have the tools and expertise to change the barrel. Changing a Luger barrel is not a job for your local gunsmith who doesn't know much about Lugers. You will likely end up with a twisted upper receiver. When you are ready to change the barrel, post a request here, and someone who is knowledgeable and tooled for the job will help you.

[QUOTE=Edward Tinker;248766]I would swap the barrel, keep the old barrel and then replace the parts - then have it checked by a gunsmith who knows lugers to see if they can get it firing safely - personally I would think yes. I would not have just anybody swap out a luger barrel unless they have done it before...


You might want to consider contacting G.T. @
http://forum.lugerforum.com/member.php?u=20, or gctomek@msn.com,

I believe he has the parts available that you need, plus he can swap out the barrel and check it over for any safety issues that it may have. He does excellent work and is above reproach.

Lon

What he said ^^^^^^. This is the avenue that I would explore if that Luger were mine, and I wanted to make it "whole". We, on this forum, know that GT can fix that Luger.

My guess is that the holes were drilled to be able to place and weld a slightly smaller diameter bar across the bore so that you could not chamber a round. The positioning of the holes would tend to bear this out. For some reason, it was never done.

Hello Chris, and welcome to the forum.

Another vote for: Do not repair the damaged barrel. Replace it. Acquire the missing parts and you should end up with a nice shooter and family heirloom.

An experienced Luger gunsmith should also take a good look over the rest of the Luger to make sure that there hasn't been further damage. It's likely that the hole is a result of an amateur attempt to demil the gun. Perhaps a family member that didn't like "something dangerous" being around the house. Of course, this created something more dangerous... at least until properly repaired.

Once it has been repaired and gone over, you should have a functional firearm. Take the time to get to know how a Luger operates, and how to properly clean and care for it. The replacement barrel eliminates reduces it from a collectible firearm to a shooter grade, so go ahead and shoot it. Just use standard velocity 9mm Luger ammo with 115gn or 124gn bullets. No "Nato" or "+P" rounds...

Marc

So thanks to everyone for the input! As I see it, it isn't much of a collectible as is, and I would not get rid of it anyway, so I think assuming the rest of the gun is OK I think a new barrel would probably be the way to go.

That said, I know in situations like these that there isn't always just one correct answer so I do appreciate everyone's thoughts. Step one I guess will be getting and installing the missing parts and then getting it checked-out and possibly a new barrel. Thanks again.

Chris

Hi Chris!
 

Welcome to the forum! I have sent you a private mail outlining some of the basic things I can do for you... There are several members here that can provide the services you need, all are very capable... Good luck with your project, let me know if I can be of any further service... best to you, til...lat'r....GT...:jumper:

Very simply, to me it looks like a "homemade" deactivation.
In any case I would not weld back anything, keep as it is, full stop.

Yes, not for the faint of heart, and probably cost-prohibitive compared to the swap. Numbers match, but it's already a shooter due to this issue. Best case, restoring the original barrel, would result in a restored shooter, but a shooter nonetheless. The approach I detailed is extreme, and fraught with liability issues for anyone who would/could do it professionally. This is something a qualified tech/smith might do for a personal pistol, but perhaps too risky a job otherwise take on.

Sorry, didn't man to take suggestions into la-la land, but I'm happiest when no stone has been left un-turned. Didn't want to leave out a feasible possibility...but, bottom line, it's best to consider the caveats!

Especially for this forum... :)

I would do it, if it were mine and I cared about keeping it original. I don't consider it an extreme repair.

An acquaintance of mine once had a nickel plated .357 Colt Python revolver that shaved bullets every time it fired...You could see the copper/lead shooting sideways out of the cylinder to barrel gap...He wanted to correct it, but the timing seemed OK...I told him that re-cutting the forcing cone should help, but he never 'got around to it'... :rolleyes:

The barrel is ruint and not fixable. Replace it and the other parts and you got a nice pistol.
I have seen guns DEWATTED by drilling and putting a rod in place as mentioned.
You never know what former some former owner got inspired over to do this.

Aw, just put a couple of wraps of muffler tape around it and call it good! :evilgrin::eek:

Seriously, I'll second the recommendation of our own G.T. - he does great work!!

A little JB Weld and it'll be good as new, yes? :evilgrin:

Re-barrel is the only solution that would make sense, if you want to make a shooter out of your luger. Otherwise, in its current state it is only an interesting paperweight.

Sad that the original barrel was drilled in such a fashion. I, for one, prefer my 'war relics' to go 'bang'!

Hello - I'm a shooter, not a collector. I'd install a new barrel, replace the missing parts, and have a competent Luger gunsmith check the gun. Other parts (like springs) in the gun and magazine may need replacement.

After that go to the Shooting and Reloading section of this forum for advice on ammo selection and reloading recommendations.

You are in for a lot of fun shooting a P.08. Since you will attract attention it's important to have a reliably functioning pistol.

I am a shooter more than a collector as well, and the only real collector value is sentimental value to me anyway, so I will go ahead with a re-barrel and check up.

I had not even noticed the reloading section but will check that out! For the most part we just shoot reloads.

Chris

Whole again!
 

Hi Folks,

Just thought I would give you an update on my Luger, and a couple shout-outs.

As suggested by several individuals, I got in touch with GT. A week later I had an operational luger in my hands.

It's been freezing here, but I did get out to the range yesterday as I couldn't wait any longer. We shot three magazines with no failures, and she points where you aim. I feel the accuracy is very good, but hard to prove that when your fingers are numb and you are hurrying to get a few rounds off before the range closes. It was an absolute hoot to shoot, and I can see why there is interest in not only collecting, but shooting these wonderful pistols! :cool:

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions, especially those that led me to contact GT!

Thanks to GT for putting this old girl back into operational condition at a very reasonable price; supplying and installing a period correct barrel with excellent rifling, and also the needed mainspring and mainspring guide. It was a pleasure dealing with GT and I won't hesitate to recommend him to others; I can't really say enough about what a positive experience this has been. :thumbup:

My apologies for lack of pictures, I will try and get them on here asap.

- Chris

As promised here is a photo, not going to win any beauty contests, but a great shooter, and one that reminds me of my Uncle when I get it out:

It was suggested that I tell a bit about this pistol. The pistol was handed down to me after my Uncle died. He was quite an interesting, but very humble man. He traveled to Antarctica twice with Admiral Byrd. He was in the Army for the 1st trip, but due to some sort of red tape he had to transfer to the Navy in order to go with Byrd for the second trip. He was medaled for his part in numerous polar rescue operations, serving primarily as a dog trainer/handler. He was very proud to have been a soldier and citizen and many times showed us (as kids) how to take down and properly fold a flag. Then the mystery comes in ... he did not serve in any war that I know of. I did have several uncles which did though, one of them a WW2 paratrooper; who over the years stored many of his belongings at my Uncle's house (the one that went to Antarctica) and I suspect that was where it came from. Unfortunately, those who would know are no longer with us so the mystery of the luger remains as much a mystery as why there was a hole drilled through the barrel. It looks like I will probably never know too much more about this pistol, but it remains a valuable piece of history to me and a reminder of my uncles.

"not going to win any beauty contests"... On the contrary, my most prized firearms are those that I've inherited that belonged to my grandfathers and great-grandfathers!

I'm very pleased that you decided to bring it back into firing condition. I'm sure your dad and uncles would be pleased that their old war trophy can now be enjoyed by their descendants. I know I always think of my ww2 veteran grandfather or my ww1 veteran great-grandfather when I shoot the rifles I've inherited from them... :thumbup:

Chris,

Thanks a lot for that page of real history!

Chris,

So glad to hear that you were pleased with GT's work, but most of us on this forum knew that you would be. He is a real asset to this forum. He is correcting a "bubba-smithed" 5in. Luger bbl. for me currently.

You now can fully enjoy that heirloom, and hand it down when the time is right. These item are priceless to me. We can only hope that the next "owner" will cherish it like we did.

Totally. I sensed that GT has the kind of respect on the forum that is only earned.

Very true. I started to say that we appreciate these heirlooms and mementos as we get older, but it is very clear to me that my sons value these items highly as well.

Good luck w/your barrel.

It's simple, your uncle gained the luger battling elite SS fanatics held out in New Swabia in the quest to kill Hitler once and for all.. ;)

Glad you got her up and running again. From what I hear of GT, when I need serious luger work done, he is the one getting my lugers.