Finding a P-08 Today
 

I remember there was a time when a P-08 was sold as almost junk in the 1960s and then the prices just kept going up with "matching parts" four times above the times they could be had in the 1960's. Now it seems to find a true P-08 has become a hurdle and after that hurdle all the details about parts and date come in to make them all over the board to thousands and thousands of dollars.

I have been looking online since 2000 at for sale P-08s from all sorts of places and dates and now I see they all are still rising in cost.

It is hard to find a P-08 without spending a lot of money.

There have been reproductions of the P-08 from Huston, TX and other places but they always fall way short of the original P-08s made in Germany.

Am I correct so far?

The question I have is why what was once a surplus cheap item after WWII is now a very expensive buy today and yesterday (yesteryear)?

Can a gun company duplicate the machinery and make a P-08 today with the same tolerances?

I am wondering and if so can that gun company profit by doing so?

no, yes, no, yes

It is much more complicated than being said above.

In the 1970's Mausers they did remake the luger, it was not a huge success - at the time, too much and probably too many originals out there. Many folks have improved them by make new models, new calibers, etc.

The new made ones aren't interchangable in parts

They were always more expensive than many other guns years ago, so it depends on what you consider cheap? A $35 luger is cheap, cheap / today - but how much was a person making that a week back then?

Mosin Nagants are cheap today and were cheaper five years ago - the import market will dry up with them and their price will rise....

When Luger were $25 for rig, I was making a buck an hour.
True that an "unmessed with" example is a lot harder to find and you need to look very hard at what you do find.

People have looked at manufacturing new Lugers to the original specifications and quality. The price would be way over $5000.

Mauser tried to do it in the 1970s through 1980s and couldn't make sales at a price that would give a decent profit. That's why they stopped.

Other than the ones that Mauser and Krieghoff have made, I don't think there have been any mass manufacture of modern Lugers of good lasting quality.

So... we have what were made in the past, and the products of Waffenfabrik Minnesota, etc...(the fakers). They are expensive because of the demand for a limited number of Lugers that are extant. Every collectable Luger that gets damaged reduces the available number, and increases rarity.

When you wait for a bus on the corner, you can wave it by because it costs too much (value less than the utility of the trip). Eventually, you either get on the bus, or get cold standing on the corner.

Marc

I was born in 1957 and remember the 1960's and even 1958 and 1959. I was never interested in P-08s although I remember the squirt guns patterned after them filled with water to spray somebody back in 1962. The P-08 was an available squirt gun in 1962 and that was when I first saw a "model" of a P-08 in first grade.

In the 60's there was a killer named the Zodiac in the Bay Area and I lived in the Bay Area (Kentfield, CA) when this was happening. He used the P-08 in a town just off Interstate 80 from Black Point to Reno. Then the P-08 was identified as the weapon used by the Zodiac. The P-08 by this time appeared in a lot of WWII movies and also with Frank Sinatra (and others) in the First Deadly Sin and the Manchurian Candidate. I remember these movies as a youngster. Then the P-08 is all over the movies about the Third Reich and WWII. I still had no fascination for the P-08. Until I finally shot one after shooting Hi Powers and CZ 75s and Beretta M-9s. My first two P-08s were DWM commercials and then I got a real P-08 from WWII (the 1937 S/42 Mauser) recovered from a WWII veteran who used it to buy a new roof over his house with a roofer and the roofer walked into my door with it after roofing our house and he wanted to know if I'd buy it and I took it apart seeing all matching except for the magazine and bought it from him for $900. I told him ahead of time he might get more looking elsewhere to sell it but he decided to sell it to me. That is the Story of the 1937 I've pictured here, Serial number 4068 suffix "b". Not reblued all original and it shoots a foot high at 50 yards but other than that it is deadly accurate when you aim low!

Then I got the 1936 reblued all original without the Mauser Bump but all matching in steel except for the grips. Matching magazine included.

The DWM's I had had mismatched parts and neither one of them shot 100% reliability. These do.

I think matching parts make the difference. Whether reblued or not.

To date I find a working P-08 hard to find without paying for it. To date I know there are reproductions that cost too much to make to be a real success.

I am here to continue the journey to find WWII Military S/42s of other dates with all matching parts. I am not going to do DWM or Erfurt or Swiss or Navy or other. I am concentrating on true WWII Third Reich Soldier P-08s. That is my interest.

I suppose that is also my endorsement for anyone finding an S/42 Military Third Reich P-08. I know there are rarities in the Swiss Luger and the Navy and other things but to me I like the S/42 over the rest and I can buy more of them than one rare Navy or Swiss Luger. Does this make sense?

sure if thats what you like

I remember seeing the ads for lugers from the early 60's and earlier for $65 or so - and I am only 3 yrs younger :)

I was speaking with a fellow Luger enthusiast from Florida the other day, a gentleman in his early 80's that I had just made a purchase from on ebay, he told me that his first Luger was an Artillery that he paid a whopping $17.00 for, I didn't get the year he made the purchase but I think it was in the early or middle 50's, anyway it made think I may have overpaid for the 1917 Artillery I bought at auction in early 1964 for the princely sum of $56.00, just kidding. :D My monthly salary at that time was $350.00.

Lon

So... you're in the right place to find a Luger offered directly by a collector for sale.

Just keep your eye on the for sale area, and be patient.

Marc

All collectable firearms are getting more expensive than they used to be and we all make more money that we did 40 years ago. I bought a 1942 Remington-Rand 1911 rig a few weeks ago that came with the original NRA paperwork from 1960. Pistol, holster, belt and double magazine pouch was $17.00 back then. Those were the days. Needless to say, the rig was a bit more expensive now.

We owe it all to 3 names..Fred Datig in 1958, Harry Jones in 1959 and Charles Kenyan in 1969 All are even more relevant today! Lugers at Random had the most impact! I think it opened everyones' eyes! I believe Kenyans' book which had been reprinted multible times was responsible of causing the rise of luger prices, providing relevance and attention to luger collecting in over 400 pages! People then pulled out their old dusty luger relics and found out what the had for the first time. There are probobly Several still hiding!

It all goes to the value of a P-08 with all matching parts. Were ever it comes from. Mismatches are subject to devaluation and matched numbers mean the real thing. You can get a mismatch P-08 that shoots for a shooter and be happy with it. After all, the tolerances to produce a P-08 are beyond what is manufactured today with CNC or MIM.

Ergo the CNC and MIM mean nothing to us. Right?

When you get a P-08 with all matching it is a sort of heaven of discovery. I get that. That is the realm I am in and no MIM or CNC will ever match it.

I'd rather have mismatch parts from a working P-08 than a recent MIM or CNC reproduction. That's why no recent (after WWII) reproduction is worthless to me.

Rebluing? I don't care. All matching parts? I care.

Fact is no commercial company after WWII is even close to a mismatched part WWII P-08. I won't buy a mismatched WWII P-08 in the first place and I'll never buy a reproduction made with MIM and CNC.

I want matched parts from WWII and I have them in my two P-08s. Reblued or not.

The Third Reich had standards that no one today can ever reproduce. They did not have MIM or CNC then. They stamped every single part.

The S/42 to me is the true issued mass P-08 for soldiers of the Third Reich. The Navy and Swiss are another realm to admire and spend lots of money for.

I'd rather have an issued S/42 than the rest. I am opinionated. I like S/42 Military. I can perhaps look into Swiss and Navy later on but in the meantime I am picking up S/42 issued to the Third Reich. Erfurts? I don't care at this time. I want working functioning P-08s from the Third Reich. All the rest are collector fantasy for the money they pay for it.

The S/42 works and most other WWI or other don't work. If they do work they are too expensive to fire repeatedly with the accuracy of the P-08. WWI P-08s have a lot of damage in the bore and in the original parts to fire. They will break in time to be useless to fire or useless to fire because they are so old and cherished by collectors.

I want a working gun when I buy a gun. It will not be a safe queen to show others. It will be a firing and functional P-08.

My view.

Okay. Does three years younger mean 1954 or 1960?

I'm 1957 birth date.

So what did you pay aside from historical payments paid for P-08s?

I said in the 1960's P-08s were surplus sold at dirt cheap prices. What did you pay for your 1917 Artillery? Okay I get it. You didn't buy it but now you wish you had!

That is my point. P-08s were DIRT CHEAP in the 1960's and today they are very expensive. We pay the expense today because no handgun in the world produced today compares to the P-08. We know recent repros are JUNK compared to what the Third Reich and previous German Luger pistol in WWI. I rest my case.

If you want a real Luger P-08 you buy the original and you avoid Huston TX or whoever to reproduce the real item. I am reinforcing our love for the historical P-08. I had an Erfurt that malfunctioned in .30 Luger and I took it back. It was a WWI P-08. I was reimbursed. I never had a problem with WWII S/42 and that is why I like them to shoot them.

Repros like Mitchell and Huston or Eagle or whoever are not selling the quality of a WWI or WWII P-08. Are we not on the same sheet of music here?

Swiss and Navy and Artillery expensive models are probably faulty to shoot over and over again without devaluing them. Not the S/42 issued military soldier sidearm. I want working guns. Not safe queens.

No, I bought the Luger ($56,00) and since then wished I had bought the second Artillery that was offered, but I did win three other guns so I walked away happy. :D

Lon

So you got more than one for a "win" of some sort.

Good for you!

My point is there is no pistol in the world made today that is like the original P-08. It is too expensive to reproduce and it is also very expensive to buy with all matching parts.

Furthermore, the toggle joint the Luger uses is historical in design. All other auto pistols use a tilted barrel like the 1911 or Hi Power or blowback for lesser than 9mm Luger.

The design of the P-08 is historic and reliable. It is a true invention in semi automatic history where we gather together to select our sidearms no matter what price because we believe in them.

Okay.

I have the Hi Power and the SIG 210 and had the CZ-75s and 85's and the B models of CZ for the 9mm and the SW 59 and 39 and Beretta M9 and the P-38s (I still have them: the P-38s from Spreewerke and Walther). Today I have 6 9mm Lugers:

1. Spreewerke P-38
2. Walther P-38
3. Browning Hi Power
4. Mauser WWII S/42 1936
5. Mauser WWII S/42 1937
6. SIG P210 Swiss Army

I think I know 9mm by now and I won't buy a non-functioning 9mm Luger in any pistol and I've been through a lot of 9mm pistols since 1972.

The above are my remaining and this is a P-08 forum and you will notice I have two reliable P-08s from S/42 Mauser.
I will not ever sell my Mausers to anyone. I like guns that work and I have no safe queens.

I just have to ask. How can you possibly remember 1958 & 1959 when you were just born in 57? Must have some memory.

In 1961 I had just graduated from college ( after 4 years in the Navy). I went to work as a Federal Forester for $4040 per year. That was $336 per month before taxes ,health insurance etc. My take home was around $270 per month. Yes lugers were selling for $60 to $80 but that was a third of my take home pay! So take a third of your present monthly salary and you have a comparison for what you would pay today for a luger. Example you earn $60000 per year or $5000 per month luger sells for $1650. Sure I earned more over the years but lugers prices were also going up. Bill

You really deserve every one you have!!!!!Eric

what happens when you're bit by the Luger bug? :evilgrin: the flu is really expensive to treat! :cheers:

My problem is I love them all. I love my 1916 Luger, my BYF 42 P38 and my recently acquired Remington Rand 1944. I want a Walther PP, A Winchester 1892, a Colt....
It will be a while before I will own multiples of the same gun. If ever. They are all great. My Mosin Nagant, My AK47, my AR15 and my modern guns.
etc etc

Florida Lugers Not!!!! By the time they move down the usually sell, give or leave most posessions. They are probly unsure with transporting arms. I've never seen one in a Florida pawn shop! Our last and my last local gunshow here had absolutley none! Ammo and beef jerky!!

Same here Eric, I have never seen one in either a local gunshow or a local pawn shop. Our gunshow's have few collector pistols of any kind but lots of old military ammo and other types of military surplus, although there will usually be some nice rifles and shotguns. :crying:

Lon

Yeah I do. I memorized the Gospel of John and Romans and Phillipians and Ephesians and Jude and Revelation and the three John Letters (I,II,III) with Isaiah and Joel and Matthew (Gospel) and Habakkuk and I Corinthians and II Corinthians in 1978 all together.

I do remember when I was a year old. And afterwards. I have a good memory.

I memorized Lord of the Flies (Golding) and Fahrenheit 451 (Bradbury) and The Prisoner of Chillon (Lord Byron) and Tintern Abbey (Wordsworth) and La Belle Dame Sans Merci (Keats) along with Johnny Got His Gun (Dalton Trumbo) and Heart of Darkness (Robert Conrad) and The Twelve Caesars by Suetonius. Other texts as well but you get my point here.

Most kids don't remember before 5 years of age but that is not my case.

So, your point now is?.............

Right. The P-08 Luger is, to me, the most fascinating 9mm and .30 Luger semi automatic to me. It is historic. It is a fine pistol in my mind. I also like Walthers (PP, PPK, PPK/S). I like this focus instead of the eternal focus on a 1911. I have owned a lot of 1911s. My prize is a WWI Colt issued to the US Army. My second is a Colt Model 07810DXS w/XS sights and 3" Barrel (Kind of modern last I looked). I also have the the Philippine Manilla American Classic by Metro Arms Commander (Code ACC45C) that works every time. I've owned a lot of 1911s in .45 ACP and to tell you the truth the 1911s I own now are functioning and accurate 1911s. Wish I could say the same for Springfield Armory but no. Kimbers work. I've had a few of them. I don't own them anymore. When I downsized I went for my Colts and the Thrilla Manilla (Ali) 1911.

I have an open mind when it comes to experimenting and using guns. I only keep what works every time.

The S/42s I have work every time. They are issued military soldier hand weapons. I respect them.

"Yeah I do. I memorized the Gospel of John and Romans and Phillipians and Ephesians and Jude and Revelation and the three John Letters (I,II,III) with Isaiah and Joel and Matthew (Gospel) and Habakkuk and I Corinthians and II Corinthians in 1978 all together."

Just curious...which translation; Aramaic, Septuagint or Masoretic Hebrew for the OT; and Koine Greek, Latin Vulgate, or maybe English Tyndal, King James or Douay Confraternity for the NT?

I'm partial to the Aramaic text of Isaiah from Q4Isa3.

Regards,

Gunny John ;)

I also can translate the Original Classic Greek used in the New Testament. I majored in pre medicine and ended up in a Seminary, San Francisco Theological Seminary in 2 Kensington Rd, San Anselmo. I had to learn Hebrew and Greek and exegete the texts from the original manuscripts which are Papyri and Alexandrian and historical.

Halfway through the 4 years required to get a Master's in Divinity we had choices to either go Hebrew or Classical Greek in translating for the Ordination Boards. I went Greek.

The texts today translated from the original Greek are dated by modern Greek language but it doesn't change the fact the NT was made in Classical Greek.

If you are interested in my studies concerning the New Testament I can translate the Original Greek language that gave rise to it. There is also the Latin Vulgate for the Catholic Church but the Latin was after the original Greek.

I see you have partiality to Aramaic but Aramaic is just a sliver of a sliver in the New Testament.

Tyndale is a modern translation ignoring the original texts. It tries to make Christians just like the Amplified Bible which is also inaccurate.

Respectfully telling you the truth about the New Testament,

John

PS. The New American Standard version by the Lockmann Foundation is reasonably accurate. However, The Lockmann Foundation took liberties in translating the New Testament that are incorrect to make Jesus a Diety (I.e in the first chapter of John the Gospel).

Another version came out in the 1970s that is actually quite honorable: The Jewish Bible back then.

Another version from the start was actually very accurate: The King James Version (original not doctored up as it has been lately). Yes the KJ version had inaccurate sentences here and there but for the most part the KJV is really rather remarkable in being true to the dated manuscripts it was translated from.

For instance in the Gospel of John: (KJV) "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God."

That is accurate. However, in the New American Standard Jesus is inserted as "the word" before he should have been introduced as "the Word." The NAS Bible inserts Jesus ahead of time. It is inaccurate.

NASB: "He was in the beginning with God"

KJV: "The same was in the beginning with God" (I.e. the Word).

The NASB inserts "HE" instead of "the same" was in the beginning with God. The NASB inserts Jesus while the original texts say "the Word" not Jesus, in the opening lines of the original texts from Novum Testamentum Graeke.

Read the NT in the original language of Classic Greek and see how many bibles today are not accurate.

No, I'm not interested.

I was pulling your leg - which you missed - because for a newbie you come across as an overbearing horses a$$.

I've been on this great forum for about two years now. I largely keep my mouth shut, contribute knowledge and treasure when I can, and have learned so much from the wonderful, knowledgeable and friendly people here. Their knowledge is free and deep; they do not need to try to impress or Bullsling the members.

They have made me feel welcome for a long time now. You're most welcome too, I'm sure. I advise you to ease up, stay awhile, listen and learn. There is no need for you to either blind us with your brilliance nor baffle us with your bull.

Regards,

Gunny John

PS. Just for the hell of it, I just happen to be an Associate Professor of Ancient Near Eastern Languages. No one here gives a durn about that, including me. Among other subjects, I teach the Hebrew TaNaCh and Christian NT at the Graduate level. But all of that is irrelevant here. J

Amen brother, well said Gunny John.
It's better here for everyone if egos are left at the doorstep. Religion, politics, etc. don't belong on these kind of forums.
We sort of have a common denominator; let's us just be comrades in arms and let the wonder of this group grow and learn and help each other.
thanks for my 1.99 cents.
Jack

I can remember going through all that papyri back at the great library in Alexandria in my youth. Afternoons and weekends where spent shooting suppressed .22 caliber longbows at fleeing Hitites at 500 yards. I began my bow training at three months of age under Bob Smith, Upper Egypt's premier bowmaster. To this day I can still hit a Canopic Jar at 800 Yards while reading the new testament in Aramaic. My weapons were all military and approved by Pheaero, as I will not keep or shoot a civilian bow.

What........a.........loon!

Alanint.

Stop it! I just wet my pants laughing.

Guns

Semper Fi, Gunny!!

What the heck just happened. My eyes glazed over with all the religious stuff.
I only pray to Mr Luger...

Amen, Tony.

Nothing much just happened except another rare, occasional arrogant blowhard getting banned.

I prefer to think of it as they got themselves, ejected from the game (and I am not a sports guy mind you)

sometimes I can attribute it to drinking late at night - but his writing was too clear to be a drunkard (no offense to our drunkards here) - and although his writing was clear, he wrote, well, more whacko than even some of the whacko's we have seen.

That took a lot of effort to write all that - and to spout off all those books he memorized. I was not sure of the reasoning behind it? Last week I actually deleted a posting or two, because he wrote on several postings, totally out of the blue, AND SHOOT THAT THING!

ok, worse than a troll, I would think he was trying to start something, but he did not hit the normal troll subjects;

1. Nazi's are our friends, we don't eat them
2. Lugers, even my 24,000 $ krieg should be shot with corrosive pre-WW1 ammo
3. You mods are so full of yourselves!
4. Every luger that is in my hands should be cleaned, refinished and shot
5. Obama (you can put Bushes name here if inclined) is to blame for my luger jamming!
6. people who pimp out their guns are @#%#$

I hope I wasn't out of line. I was just real curious how anyone could have that good of a memory? Anyways I could not have any of the replies better myself. I love this forum.

[
You weren't out of line at all Andrew, you asked the same question everyone else had in mind. No problem at all. :cheers:

Lon

I'm in the lower-48 right now and stopped by the Post Falls ID Cabelas. I'd never been in a Cabelas store before.

They had four or five P.08s in the fancy gun room. One was chrome plated (didn't completely fill the pitting), and the others were low to middle of the road shooters. $1,199 was a the price for each of them.

$1,199 was a the price for each of them and don't forget tax title and license! Another $100-150!