Luger Stock
 

what are your thoughts regarding this one? repro? or legit?

Repro.

Yep. Repro. I agree.

OK, Oh Magnanimous Ones: Why?
I agree, based on the ill fitting metal-wood, slightly domed screws, wood looking too nice and angular, and no visible marks and numbers. IF there was a number I might think that it is old metal on a repop. stock.
Now what do you base your opinions on?
(I'm not trying to put you on the spot, just wanting a free education...)
dju

Geez David, you tick off the things that are wrong and you ask us why it is a repro! :) Short of it being stamped "Reproduction" what more do you want? There isn't anything right or original about it.

The polyurethane finish doesn't look original either. The inletting on the stock iron looks like it was done with a boyscout knife and an angle grinder.:evilgrin:

I've got no dog in this fight, but as a collector (neophyte or experienced veteran), I've got to side with David on this one. I find comments like "it's no good", "it's a repro", "save your money", etc... to be less than helpful because they don't teach anything or help the new collector learn.
Just my humble opinion

Ron:
Now that you mention it, I would like to see; "REPRODUCTION", or "BOOSTED" stamped on suspect parts...
Thanks for your patience.
dju

Certified Reproduction
 

Here you go David! Best I could do on short notice!

:roflmao::cheers:

Seriously now... all the "defects" or tell-tale signs were listed in this thread (by YOU). It just takes a good memory (which mine is starting to fail), and a good eye that has seen many specimens, plays no small part in the identification of reproduction parts... I have been in this game for about FIFTY years... I wish transfer of acquired skills was as easy as unplugging a flash drive from one who knows and plugging it into one who doesn't (yet), but it just isn't that easy. You are already on the right track to acquiring this skill.

In addition to all the obvious defects noted above, the stock itself is not European walnut. ALL artillery and Navy stocks were made of European walnut.

Hi Bill, I agree with you in principle, but the original question was:

"what are your thoughts regarding this one? repro? or legit?"

...IMHO, I think the question was completely answered by Ron and myself... perhaps with some tongue in cheek...

If you ask detailed questions, I am sure you will receive detailed answers. At least I always try to be thorough in my answers, and I know Ron does too..

Feed me Seymore, FEED me! Rather than a spoon feeding..look at an original stock for comparison. All of the defects, wood types etc. will become clear and you will have a reference in your mind. MUCH better than any typed out description.

"Feed me Seymore, FEED me! Rather than a spoon feeding..look at an original stock for comparison. All of the defects, wood types etc. will become clear and you will have a reference in your mind. MUCH better than any typed out description. "

Jerry:
I agree in principle, however at this moment I do not have an original stock within reach for comparison purposes.
Sorry.
dju

I can offer this advise on this particular stock, if you can get it at a discounted price for the workmanship.

If all you are looking for is functionality, ...and not authenticity, the errors in inletting this particular stock appear to be that the holes for the mounting screws were drilled too close to the end of the stock. The stock holes could be filled with Brownell's Acraglass bedding material and then re-drilled in the proper location to remove the unsightly gaps around the stock iron. The width of the inletting appears to be good, only the hole locations appear to be in the wrong location.

It will never be perfect, but it will still meet the ATF description of an Artillery stock and look CLOSER to what an original stock should look like.

Inletting quality control as seen on this stock would never have passed German military acceptance standards... or even commercial standards for that matter. Peasant middle eastern manufacturing standards maybe... :D

Do all legit Artillery stocks fit all Artillery lugers? ~~Eric

No. That's why they're numbered.
Regards, Norm

Eric:
Yes. To the best of my knowledge, there is no variation in attachments, however very minor fitting may be necessary between different weapons. But I do not think so.
dju

Absolutely correct David. Each Artillery model was individually fitted to the matching stock.

Eric, a stock from a different gun may be too loose or too tight to be useable without hand fitting.

Here's a couple things I picked up researching!!

In the German military Lugers, only the 6" Navy and 8" Artillery were ever issued with a shoulder stock.
On the Navy and Artillery the stock was never used alone. It was attached to the holster, and the holster and stock were used together. The rig was carried slung over the shoulder by straps rather than being in a holster fastened to the belt. Artillery and Navy Lugers can have detachable stocks. Standard P08s even though they have a lug, can not.

Good source is in "Luger Holster and Accessories of the 20th Century" by Eugene J. Bender on page 225. The dimension of the stock are for the most part clear, although they are in metric.

Either a real or repro stock is only legal on a Luger which was originally issued with a stock. The C&R list has a section that list acceptable pistol and stocks sets and it states that the stock must be original issue stocks not reproductions or replicas . A repro stock on a Luger, even if it's an exact duplicate, has to first pass the proper paperwork and registration of the stock and pistol as a Short Barrel Rifle with the BATFE and may have to pay the $200 tax stamp fee. According to ATF list of curios and relics (pub. 5300.11, part III), the lugers and stocks that are exempt or excluded from the NFA restrictions are very specific, and don't cover all pre-war and wartime artillery lugers and stocks.

Nice work, simple and concise!!

According to the BATFE's web site FAQ:

Source http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=5&f=44&t=73768

That may be true in Cal. but BATF has ruled that repro's that duplicate originals may be used on Navy and Artillery lugers. Not legal to have a Navy stock on a artillery or reversed. You need not apply to BATF for anything. Bill

Either a real or repro stock is only legal on a Luger which was originally issued with a stock. The C&R list has a section that list acceptable pistol and stocks sets and it states that the stock must be original issue stocks not reproductions or replicas . A repro stock on a Luger, even if it's an exact duplicate, has to first pass the proper paperwork and registration of the stock and pistol as a Short Barrel Rifle with the BATFE and may have to pay the $200 tax stamp fee. According to ATF list of curios and relics (pub. 5300.11, part III), the lugers and stocks that are exempt or excluded from the NFA restrictions are very specific, and don't cover all pre-war and wartime artillery lugers and stocks.


Reproduction stocks, Artillery or Navy are legal with Artillery or Navy Luger's. The above statement is either un clear, misleading or false.

Are all proper stocks numbered?
 

I did notice one above~~

The BATFE pub has not been updated to reflect the exemption for repro stocks. However, an exemption was requested by Odin in 1981 and the exemption was granted by letter from the BATFE. This question comes up about twice a year and we have to revisit it each time. Seems like there must be a way avoid the repetition.

I would submit that Ron's post pretty much puts an end to the question....

Darius,

I suggest this refinement for further clarity:

sure thing. this was a quote from Johnny Peppers:
during my research as suggested by mods.
Source: http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=25509

Both carbines were issued also with a matching stock! Was it legal to fire one without the stock or was it considered a cut down carbine??~~~Eric

Great discussion, but clarification still needed as follows:

C&R list and ATF determinations re: removable and fixed stocks are very well defined.

To NOT be an "NFA" item (i.e., one requiring a tax stamp and registration), other than as exempted specifically under C&R, anything goes...with respect to a fixed or removable stock so long as the overall length is at least 26 inches and the barrel length is at least 16 inches. Otherwise, whether one starts with a pistol and adds a stock or, conversely, a rifle and cuts the barrel, if those requirements are not met, one has a short barrelled rifle (SBR), which is an NFA weapon. NO EXCEPTION other than those indicated per C&R list.

Food for thought: the POSSESSION of components resulting in a NFA weapon as defined above ( total length of less than 26 inches and/or barrel of less than 16 inches ) "in close proximity" (will leave that definition up to the reader), if somehow brought to the attention of the ATF can potentially be problematic, unless status of said combination has been made kosher formally via NFA registration prior to such time as it is "assembled" (put in close proximity), not necessarily attached!

Gizmo -

Could you tell me where you found that quote??? :)

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Bill

I refer you to http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/index.html

More specifically, I direct your attention to : ATF Rul. 2011-4

This ruling is the final poop on the status of shoulder stocks with reference to Lugers, Mausers and the like, irrespective of those excluded due to C and R status, of course, which has been cited by others in this thread. As you will see, I believe my previous post succinctly defines the basic tenets of this ruling with respect to the legal status of of shoulder stocks "in close proximity" to Lugers of varying barrel length of less than 16 inches and/or assembled units with a total length of less than 26 inches irrespective of barrel length.

Furthermore, I wish to direct your attention to Page three of the ATF letter of Rule beginning with the first of the four paragraphs in the conclusion beginning with ""Held..." namely that paragraph specifically addressing the potential pitfall to the unwary presented by "unassembled parts ...placed in close proximity."


Morris Gardner (gizmo)

Since this thread has diverged I'll go some more.

Why did 4" Lugers have a stock lug if they were not intended to be used with a stock?

Further, why was the stock lug continued into WWII if not intended to be used with a stock?

Thanks,
David

I read its' real reason it was to be used in manufacture for grasping and holding the luger such as diping or being individualed tooled! I can't individually attest to this fact!!

It needs to be a sticky...

Question to ponder fellows.
Sure it can be a pain for the very experienced Luger fellows to explain over and over but what is the main purpose of this site that is so generously provided to us?
Isn't it so we all can learn from from each other and especially from the very experienced guys and gals?

The questions are often more important than the answers!! Eric

Hi Larry, While what you say is perfectly true, most of the questions asked and answered on this thread have been asked and answered countless times in the past (see below). I don't think it's asking too much to expect members to use the forum's search function before asking a question.
Regards, Norm
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...ight=stock+lug

Some Finnish 4" M23 Lugers were issued with Shoulder Stocks..