Not extracting
 

When i fire my P08 it won't eject the case, extractor seems to be just fine as when i use a not fired bullet it comes out just fine.
Barrel has minor pitting inside but still a good bore.
Maybe just a good clean of the chamber? But what should i use?

Thanks

Welcome, Thomas

If your chamber is cruddy, a brass bore brush and Hoppe's #9. Everybody seems to have their preferences.

Make sure there is no crud under the extractor. Check also to ascertain that your extractor is not damaged. You may need to replace your extractor's spring, a relatively simple operation. Don't forget a drop of lube where it pivots.

Check also to see if the tip of your ejector is broken off. The tip should be almost as wide as the slot in the bolt face through which it protrudes when the bolt is in the rearmost position.

polish the chamber with cocus??spelling, cloth.....workes all the time

Crocus... Crocus cloth... dark red in color and cloth not paper... The grit level is the same as jewelers rouge and is about 600 to 1000...

Yes friend, I take a thin soft wood dowl, cut a cross cut in the wood about 1/2" deep, take a small but tight fitting wrapping of crocus cloth, hand tight chuck it up,a half drop of good oil and polish chamber.....carefull don't change calibers, just give it a nice polish......now I got all forms of finist/polish reamers,done this for the past 40 years so not really ready for you "try this"" idea.....it works

When i fire my P08 it won't eject the case..It HAS to extract in order to eject. I sense some confusion here. It will not extract from the chamber? Or... it extracts but will not eject as you say? You are confusing apples and oranges seemingly..

Sorry won't extract it out of the chamber when fired but when i have bullit in the chamber and don't fire but pull the toggle back it will extract and eject.

Yes friend, I take a thin soft wood dowl, cut a cross cut in the wood about 1/2" deep, take a small but tight fitting wrapping of crocus cloth, hand tight chuck it up,a half drop of good oil and polish chamber.....carefull don't change calibers, just give it a nice polish...

Howard gives good advice..Can't hurt and you will eliminate one of the potential problems. Could well be one of the other problems too..

This is a sign of rough chamber--or at least rough enough to affect ejection. When a round is fired, the brass case expands due to the pressure established, form-fitting it to the walls of the chamber. Of course, an un-fired round should slip in slick, and pretty much fall out of the chamber if the barrel is pointed up with the toggle retracted. If not fired, the brass case is not expanded.

When there is sufficient roughness to provide enough friction for a certain level of resistance to extraction, the extractor's claw slips off the rim and the fired round stays in place. The polishing by the crocus cloth approach removes the microscopic high spots inherent in the roughness which have been holding the case in. A smooth chamber will allow the very slight taper of the case to move with very little force required, since with smooth walls, there is little or nothing locking or grabbing the shell's outer walls.

Go easy, as the other guys mention...a few spins of the polisher setup...give 'er a try... another few spins if necessary...etc. Also check visually as you go. A final tip, slip the setup into the chamber, then do the spins. Keep the 1/2" strip of crocus cloth moving in and out smoothly to help make the polishing even, and avoid rounding the back rim of the breech by not pulling the setup back too far.

Pardon me for butting in. I've got a Mauser made P08 made in 1942. The firearm is in excellent condition, all matching serial numbers, bright bore with only light holster wear in the usual places.
I'm new to handloading and have had a problem with two batches of hand loaded ammunition. The hand loads are 115 gr FMJ RN bullet, 5.3 grains of Winchester WSF using a new Starline case and CCI primers. The fired case does not fully eject from the chamber and the toggle partially pushes a new round from the magazine that jams under the partially extracted case.
I've been using Fiocchi 124 gr FMJ Truncated Cone ammunition as a control. These do not fail to extract, although I occasionally get a "stovepipe", which is easy to clear.
I've been very careful in measuring the case dimensions of the 9mm hand loads, which cycle flawlessly through my Glock 17 and Browning Hi Power.
Is it possible the powder is too fast? Does anyone have a good hand load to recommend?

Hi,

Please search my thread in Reloading 9MM for P-08 in the Shooting and Reloading Section, as it will address and answer many of your questions. It is a current thread.

Sieger:cheers:

Thank you much. Will do.

If your chamber is eroded so much that a new loaded round can be moved up & down or from left to right a notasable distance, it may be time for a new barrel or a realnement. Tom

Tom, I think you may need a new keyboard...:D

Or get a realignment for the existing one?:burnout:

Round won't eject....can I check this at home without shooting?
 

Gentlemen,
This thread seems to lean in the direction of my issue. Gun fired for the first time in a LONG time. All went well to include the bullet going down range!! Gun all in one piece.

Using Fiocchi 765A Specialty 30 Luger 93 GR Metal Case (FMJ), assuming pretty standard. The issue was the casings would not come out.

As the mag is already a problem with the "hold back" and the button height a new Mec-Gar mag inbound. With faulty mag and suspect condition of gun I was running ONE bullet in the Mag at a time. I did put two in the mag once to see if that would help--it didn't. Could this be a mag issue too?

I fired seven rounds total, In only ONE case did the casing come close to getting ejected, it was "caught" in the breech in a vertical position with the rim down, empty opening up. As close as it came to getting one out.

I checked the extractor, looks good, it holds a casing quite well, feels "right". The extractor moves easily, assume spring is good as well.

Current thread seems to indicate cleaning/smoothing chamber, expansion of casing after firing etc. So I've smoothed the chamber and maybe that helped.

To the point, (finally) is it possible to Check the capability of ejecting the round without actually firing? Is there a way to mimic the action of the toggle by hand or is the only way to do a real operational check is by firing. Before I go back to the range I'd like to know if I MAY have solved the problem.

My wife took a short video of the first round to send to the kids; bit grainy but seems to show the toggle rising up. Video NOT taken to highlight that but it appears Toggle flew up and back.

Can post photos if needed, also if this thread or post needs to go elsewhere, please indicate.

I'm confused if your problem is extraction or ejection. If the brass is stuck in the chamber because the extractor let go of it (slipped off the rim) that is one thing, if it is simply not being thrown clear of the gun before the toggle starts forward, that is another.
You should be able to cycle it by hand to see if it is pulling it out of the chamber, but of course if a porrus chamber is the issue non-firing will not show the problem.
Clarify the problem for me please.
dju

Denny is correct..clarification is always good. You say the extractor moves up and down easily. Could be a weak spring? Have you closely inspected the extractor lips?



Take out the firing pin. Insert a magazine of rounds..try to work the toggle to extract them all.



Take a look at your ejector to see that it is complete and not chipped or broken.

Dummy rounds aka snap caps are a useful accessory to manually test the action of Lugers. The dummy rounds can be loaded and the action manually cycled, the dummies should eject and chamber.

F15E_WSO's issue seems to have both an extraction and a partial ejection (stovepipe) issue. Extraction has been covered above. On ejection the first thing i would try is different ammo, on 3 out of 4 of my .30 Luger pistols Fiocchi does not have sufficient energy to operate the action. Plus the round is a little shorter than ideal. Prvi Partisan aka PPU ammo solves both the energy and length issues and is preferred on my three .30 Luger pistols that don't like Fiocchi, however PPU is currently out of stock in the USA at least on the internet (see separate thread).

DavidJayUden, It may be both! I would shoot, no brass coming out. Recall I was loading only one round. So I would invert the gun (or at least past ninety degrees to vertical so breech/opening pointing to ground), then action the toggle by hand and the spent round would tumble out. In all but ONE case the toggle was closed and fully down after firing. One time it trapped a casing between toggle and chamber.

So regarding your comments " the brass is stuck in the chamber because the extractor let go of it (slipped off the rim)"--yeah maybe. But when I would hand action a moment later it came out. Or "simply not being thrown clear of the gun before the toggle starts forward, that is another."--yeah, that happened too with the "chimney" round as mentioned by another.

So since I posted this, went to workbench, cleaned the **** out of it again, cleaned out front of breech-block, under the extractor, cleaned chamber with brass bristle brush, emery #800, oiled, cleaned, oiled again. Then I ran all the rounds that failed to extract/eject this morning and now I'm having them come out with hand actioning. Good news..... but below in another post 4 Scale said the Fiocchi .30 is not up to the task on the toggle and spring--grrrrr. That may be the case here too; hence why I only bought two boxes. Nonetheless that's all I have and the other he recommended is out of stock. I'll have to find another.

Couple pictures of the extractor.

lugerholsterrepair, ejector looks good I think, not chipped or broken (see photos previous page). What are "extractor lips"? What number would you assign them on the parts legend below?

#21. The lips/buck teeth grab onto the channel at the back of the cartridge. If these are damaged in any way..they might slip off. If the spring is weak..it might not clamp down hard enough to pull the cartridge back and out. One of many possibilities.

Day 2 Updates
 

So back to the range this morning. Still feeding the Fiocchis in one at a time into the magazine and then the chamber. First four rounds "chimney". I consider this progress as yesterday only 1 of 7 got that far. Fifth shot comes up AND out of the breech and the toggle is full locked in the open position with an empty mag!! Good news. Next four rounds fire, eject, toggle locked open. Yes!!

OK, now let's put two in the mag and see if we can complete the next step....

Not so much. NOT one of the second rounds in the mag made it up and in the chamber. Now ALL fired rounds ejected up and out, but the next round jammed.

Now these are Fiocchi 765 .30 Luger 93 gr. The listing says FMJ but they have in fact a lead tip. Soft lead....

Now a new Mag is in the mail, so happy to let this lay for the week and try again when the new mag arrives....it may fix the rest of this.

Thoughts on the jamming "next" round and the soft lead tip? Soft tips a recipe for disaster? New Mag may sort it out, leave it for now?

Using Fiocchi in my .30 Luger pistols often results in the nose-high jam shown in your post #23. After lots of experimenting, measuring rounds and consulting with our Luger/magazine expert G.T., I think Fiocchi is short in overall length and that's what causes that jam. Prvi Partisan ammo is slightly longer and fixed the issue.

Maybe the new magazine will help. I think you're the second to recommend the Prvi Partisan but none to be found?! Do you have a source? Link?

Different ammo with FMJ design and a new mag. should get you close.
If you are here to stay contact GT and secure one of his mags. for your shooting.

https://www.gunbroker.com/Ammunition...ds=.30%20Luger

dju

That jam is typical of "weak" Fiocchi and the problem is that the toggle does not come back all the way to pick up the next round.
Solution is "stronger" ammo like PPU, or weaker mainspring.

You can't fix it with a magazine. Too short OAL can compound the problem, but unless you get the toggle to full extension, it still won't work.

I'll bet the toggle does not lock open when you fire a single round either, a confirming symptom.

.30 Luger issues
 

For those of us who really like shooting the .30 Luger round there is really no good choice other than handloading. The bullets can be a bit of a challenge to find, but the brass is fairly easy. An add in the "want to buy" section would probably yield results. Single stage presses are readily available and cheap as are .30 Luger dies.


Anyway, the really great thing about handloading is you can easily adjust powder charges and over all lengths(oal) to fit your pistol perfectly. As Sieger and Rhuff taught me Lugers tend to like longer oal. Bill

In your photos of the jammed round, your toggle doesn't appear to be opening fully. Could be a result of too strong a recoil spring or a defective connecting link, which is attached to the rear toggle link. TH

MY 7.65P Lugers do not play well with the Fiocchi soft tip ammo, or any of the hollow point bullets that I tried in reloading the 30 Luger brass. No problems with the Fiocchi 92gr FMJ in any of my guns. Some folks here, on the forum, have Lugers that eat the JSP ammo with no problems. Many Lugers are ammo sensitive, and one has to "shop around" or handload. :)

DV, so yesterday when I was not trying to cycle the second round; shooting one round at a time in magazine therefore empty mag when cycling the Hold Open was working, the toggle would stay back. At that point I felt that things were heading towards normal ops and I tried to rounds. Fiocchi makes a 765A and 765B, the alpha has FULL metal copper jacket, the bravo has the lead tip.

Of course I got the lead tip

My .30 also played very nice with Fiocchi 92 gr FMJ and had no problems shooting with it. Granted it’s springs feel MUCH weaker than my 9mm and all mechanical functions on it are silky smooth, since whoever had it first seemed to love it a lot. That said it’s holdopen doesn’t work when shooting.

So a review of my WhiteBirch Armory purchase shows I did in fact order the Fiocchi 765A (FMJ) vs the Fiocchi 765B (JSP)..... I've contacted them to see what is up with the mix-up. Not blaming them for the problem (could easily be the gun, the Fiocchi (rated weak)) but I'd like to start with a FMJ.

Herr Kaiser, so you sort of blow off the Hold Open when the Mag is empty? Otherwise, you load a mag, action the toggle to load a round, and then shoot until empty. Not other issues?

Well I only shot it once because it’s all matching. But when I did I just counted the rounds and manually locked it open after the last shot to reload it. Otherwise it didn’t have any issues whatsoever. Fed, fired, extracted and ejected flawlessly. Magazine feed and release was clean and easy, takedown lever slid smooth as did dis/reassembly procedures. Only issue was toggle not locking open on empty.

Hold open problems can be a pain.
One of my shooters is a 1906(coil mainspring/grip safety). I have two uppers for it.
One is a 9mm 1902 fat barrel profile clone; it holds open every time with any 9mm ammo I feed it.
The "other" barrel is a 4" bull barrel GT special, I was firing it today - used 4 different types 9mm ammo, two factory and two reloads. Only one of the reloads would lock the toggle open when firing.

So what you say has this to do with the OP's 7,65mm- nothing- but it does illustrate the need to get full recoil for the hold open to function! The slightly heavier 4" bull barrel is right on the edge of allowing full recoil due to the "extra" mass.

So- I'm back to "it's the ammo", you gotta' get some PPU!

My friends tell me that the Serbian 30 Luger is more stout than the Fiocchi 30 Luger. Just hearsay on my part, I am a handloader for many years.

Some of your pictures suggest a short stroke on the toggle movement, could be a lot of things like too strong a recoil spring, or ammo that is on the soft side. With the breechblock picts colliding with the middle of the next cartridge, suggests the same thing. You might look at the cartridges that got caught in the action, there oughta be a mark from the lower section of the breechblock face on said case. Might be hard to see, but a black magic marker is your friend.

One might consider placing a piece of cheapo masking tape at the rear of the pistol, to see if the rear link ears are banging the rear of the frame around the lanyard ring. If no mark, a short stroke is possible; if marked; then the toggle is fully retracting.

I cannot see how the bullet nose causes extraction/ejection issues, but my comprhensional skills are down now.

With the holdopen jazz, the issues with such can be many. Taking a grip off and watching the magazine button/holdopen interface might help. These pistols are not new anymore, so surfaces may wear and round if you will. Sounds like in the postings, that the holdopen can work on occasion at least.

Just a heads up. Make sure you have no pierced primers on the "weak" Fiocchi ammo.

If you check our Luger FAQ document, you'll find the various recoil springs that were used in Lugers.

I also thought you might have a spring that was too powerful when I saw the pictures.

Forgot to say this. If you do have pierced primers. Do no use that ammo in a Luger ever.