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Semi-Auto Thompson Stock Adapter...
Some years ago, either Gun Parts Corp, or Numrich was offering an adapter that would fit the bottom frame of the fixed stock type semi-auto Thompsons, that would adapt them to the M1928 type detachable stock.
They just bolted on and provide the required mating surface for the M1928 type stock. I have not seen them in years. Can't seem to find any online at Kahr, Gun Parts, or Sarco either. Anyone know where to find one of these stock adapters? (How about Alanint? I figured if anyone would know Doug, you would know...) |
Hi John,
I remember these very well from the old Numrich catalogue. Let me ask my private lists and see if I can come up with one for you. |
Hi John,
BINGO! contact them to sell you just the adapter. http://www.tommygunner.com/pages/par...kits/index.htm |
Thanks Doug! :)
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Thanks Doug, they were out, last time I checked.
John, they don't just "bolt right on". The butt stock mounting structure of the lower receiver needs to be modified by milling off a bunch of material. The approx. 1/8" tall remaining structure is then drilled and tapped to receive the adapter plate. The adapter plate is pretty simple, so I plan to make my own; the most demanding aspect is to accurately locate the notch for the latch on the stock. Some curves/lines on the bottom of the receiver also need to be changed to make the installation true-to-original in shape. I thought I was all set to go, armed with a copy of the blueprint of a 1928 and a removable 1928 butt stock with all its hardware. The butt stock arrived, but I found once cleaned up and all the cosmolene scraped off, that it had been exposed to water at one point during its storage and it was rusty on parts of the structure that were not exposed, where the water had seeped in. In addition, the furniture had absorbed the oxide and is stained. This latter part is my problem, as rust stains are very difficult, if not impossible, to remove from wood, once established. Anybody know of a sure-fire way to bleach out the danged stains? (Oops, didn't mean to hijack your thread!!) |
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I would use electrolysis for the rust on the metal, and would likely try a full strength Lime-Away soak for the rust stains on the wood... After all, you've got nothing to lose... the only other alternative would be new wood ($$$), or a lot of sandpaper and elbow grease.:crying: |
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I haven't applied anything to it until I have some confidence the process will work, or is even feasible. I'm going to try some different stuff in addition to the Lime-Away, experimenting/testing on other pieces of rusty wood; so, stay tuned.
I doubt sanding would do me any good because the staining has soaked into the end-grain. As you can see in the pic, the stain is black, like boiled rust blue. The way the stock soaked it up would never allow you to hit bottom when sanding. Too bad Kahr is not listing their '28 removable butt stocks as a separate item, but only on the complete carbine, which is available with a removable stock. I would have preferred one of these, anyway, because the furniture would match without doing anything. I bought this one from a member of the machine gun forum. He had a pristine one, but I cheap-ed out and chose the second best because the color looked better. Maybe I should see if he and I can work something out, if he still has the good one. Otherwise, as you suggest, I'd need to reproduce the stock. I've noticed that the '28 stock is shorter than the '27--which I already found uncomfortable due to its being "dimensionally challenged" and this would be a chance to avail myself of a super-long '28 style stock, as long as I'mcreating a Franken-Tommy. |
You might look into Oxalic acid for removing the stains from the wood.
For example: http://www.rockler.com/oxalic-acid-for-wood-bleaching |
A number of years ago I used oxalic acid, an oxidizer, to lighten some weathered wood in an attempt to get back to the original color and grain. It pretty well accomplished what I wanted it to do. I am not sure how it might work for you since the stain has migrated from the cross cut grain upward. I would not rule it out though.
Does Sarco still have 1928 stocks without the hardware? They used to have a ton of it, but the chance of color matching would be a crap shoot. |
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John Sabato and I have each purchased one from eBay, which is crawling with them. Mine is un-issued, his is the same but I believe it has a finish. There's a nice one listed, looks great, complete with hardware, for $110. Had I seen this one earlier, I would have bought it and saved myself a heap of time and effort. The hardware for the complete one I did buy turned out to be a little rusty, but only in areas that won't show when installed, or are easy to clean up. *sigh* Funny how projects like this tend to grow in scope due to discoveries along the way. Anyway, I'm going to fabricate my own adapter plate and I'm pretty sure I can pull off the mods the lower receiver needs to accommodate it. I may forgo mechanical fasteners and plug weld the plate on with a TIG welder. |
John,
Any luck with just purchasing the adapter for the M1/M1928 interface? |
Hi Doug
I have seen photos of the Numrich adapter installed and though it bolts right on the semi auto frame, because of the threaded boss on the frame where the non detachable stock is bolted on, the adapter causes the 1928 detachable stock to be noticeably lower from the receiver. I don't care for that look and plan on following David in permanent modification of the semi auto frame to the 1928 dimensions including the mounting surface for the 1928 stock. It may take me longer but will not look like a kludge when I am done. |
I can't argue with that. "Look", silly as it may be to some, has always played a central role in what I like and collect.
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Do I ever know how true that statement is these days. I start a "simple" project that should take a day or so, and three(3) weeks later I am still not finished. It could be an age thing........naw, couldn't be that!! |
Seller on GB has a new Numrich/Auto-Ordnance buttstock for sale...
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=424789427 Everyone should have a hobby... :) ... |
Ta-dah
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Too late. Here's what I have so far. I had a machinist do the milling and adapter plate fab, after all, for $180. My only gripe is that he apparently went a few thousandths too far and had to relieve the rear end of the lower enough to remove the bluing in that area. I took he hardware for the stock to GunBlack, in Interlaken NY, were it was cleaned up by an acid dip, then re-blued. I didn't bother with the pitting and simply had them blue right over it. At least my notion that it would not show the damage when installed proved out!
If I had it to do over again, I'd probably do it myself. The adapter plate is simply a piece of 1/8" x 1", and the milling could be supplanted by first sawing out the bulk of the material that needs to go. Next, I'd use a body grinder to get closer, then carefully true it up and finish it off with file work. The placement of the holes is arbitrary, within bounds, so no biggie there--just need to flush off the ends of the fasteners if they protrude into the top, inside of the lower, where they need to avoid the bolt body. I think my machinist guy would do it again, but I wasn't all that happy dealing with him. He never answered an email, took forever to get to it (then it was completed, overnight) and I got the impression he wanted more $. At least this approach was more economical than sending it to a Thompson specialist, which made the small goof easy enough to swallow... Quote:
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In a way, I can understand the machinist's attitude. He didn't really want the job, and he wants to make sure you know it, and never come back. :rolleyes: I was working in my shop one day (several years ago) when I heard a go-cart like thing buzzing around. Teen-age neighbor kids, cutting through my 'lower 40' to get to their buddies on a neighboring road. (They policed the area after they had their inevitable 'parties', so I had no complaints). I could hear talking, and engine racing. I finally went out; they had stripped a keyway for the drive sprocket. I loaned them a couple tools to remove the rear axle, took it down and cut a new keyway, gave them a piece of keystock, and they were back in business inside an hour. :thumbup: They're grown up and moved away, so I never see them anymore. Never knew them really, except to wave when they buzzed by. Go-karts/mini-bikes in Summer; sno-mobiles in Winter. Lots of people I never knew have helped me out in my life. I'll never get a chance to repay them. But maybe someone else will. :) My rant for the day. :cheers: |
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I plan on the same modification for my Semi-Thompson... I already have the 1928 buttstock. I don't own a mill. So I can either invest the $180 toward buying my own milling machine or a milling attachment for my lather, or pay someone who already has one...:eek: Are you taking in work for free now?:rockon: |
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It looks to me as though it turned out fine. It functions(I assume) and the butt stock fits up properly. It looks good to me. When I start out a project, it ALWAYS costs me more to do the first item, as I am "walking in the dark". After the first one is done, usually I have refined my process and the second item is produced faster and cheaper. You did a nice job. |
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I had posted this scan from the Numrich catalog to someone's thread here once before...But here it is again... |
The issue is that they stopped offering this item years ago. What is the date on your catalogue?
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I can't see any machinist charging $180 for this work. Sorry. Just my opinion. :rolleyes: Quote:
It's not a question of FORTUNATE... :rolleyes: |
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While I have made many parts over the years with hand tools, and am pretty darn careful and productive with a mill file, I would not attempt to make that lower receiver modification without a milling machine or equivilant. Just one OOPS is all it would take and a $1700 firearm would be an ugly paperweight...and I can't afford to replace that receiver. The $180 is the insurance that if the machinist doesn't do it RIGHT, he is liable for fixing or replacing it. :eek: ...and it takes me a long time to push that many pennies into a pile. Rich, I know you live alone... and your only "job" is pleasing yourself at your address, ...but do you have children? Grandchildren? If not, then you don't know how much of a hassle (and often a waste of time) your personal priority list can be... you almost never get to the big stuff that is only important to you. I wouldn't trade any of my grandchildren for Georg Luger's personal sidearm (well maybe just one... :eek: ), but I sure would like to drop a satchel full of money and own it! :) There is an old proverb (...not from the bible) that says that "Life is what happens while you are making plans" If you look up the origin, you will probably find my photo next to it as the example. :D :rockon: |
Three times the old price of the adapter would be worth it, in terms of time spent making it and dollars spent if hiring the work out or making the piece instead of spending the time at otherwise paying work. Bit I swear it isn't that complicated, just a stock piece of steel 1/8 x 1 cut to length, with the rear end beveled, or radius-ed as in the blueprint, two to four countersunk holes just about anywhere reasonable that will catch the receiver, and the notch for the latch--again, located by the blueprint. For the receiver, one could use a couple of pieces of 1/8 flat bar clamped on either side of the material to be removed, perhaps shimmed up a few thousandths to make sure that a tad more than 1/8 of the base remains. One could hacksaw the rectangle of steel with its lug from the body of the receiver and finish it up with careful grinding and filing. The side plates would keep the methods of removing the steel from going too far. Just have to be sure the front end of the cutout is cut square. This would save any money spent for machine work, and although it might take a while to do it carefully, it's a pretty straightforward project. All the surfaces addressed will be hidden once it's assembled, so no sins showing when done. The machinist said he would saw out the bulk of the extra stuff, as it would have taken too long to hog it all off with a mill cutter.
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And when asked, I respond "Ah git bet-tah ev-ra day"... :thumbup: |
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My last employer paid me $28/hr. Figuring your machinist's fee, that would be 6 1/2 hrs work. That doesn't look like 6 1/2 hours to me. Maybe two hours. More likely less. I would have said $40 was a fair price, for a milled part, with tool marks left similar to anything found on a Luger. And I would have used socket flat head machine screws, because they are grade 8. If it was a must-have right-away part, then price is no object. I assume your guy has shop charges to pay; gas, electric, water, property taxes, permits, phone, etc. I don't figure that in any of my calculations. It's already here, whether I do outside work or not. So my estimates don't include any of those incidentals. If I hadn't had a major life setback 20 years ago, I might have the exact same business your machinist has. And probably the same pricing...and the same bills... You pays you money and you takes you chances... |
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My shop rate is $65/hr, which beats the local remaining fab shop. So, at my biz rate, at my pace, I'd have had to charge me about double what he did. Obviously, there's no easy substitute for craft knowledge and skills! |
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