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Reichswehr 1920 property stamped Polizei Luger Opinions
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hello, would appreciate opinions on this Reichswehr 1920 property stamped Police Luger . :rolleyes:
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what value would you place on this Luger?
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1917 Erfurt with a gov't 1920 marking - went into police service and received a mag and sear safety - has been refinished at some point, would assume arsenal / so that would be expected...
I am assuming it has a matching magazine, and it looks like its in excellent condition. The magazine is aluminum, so is 1930's era likely. I would venture a $1400-1700 value More information, rather than just pictures would help all matching? holster or anything else? any unit markings? |
i thought the mag was matching?!!?
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I changed what I wrote, as I assumed... but you don't show any pictures of the serial number, so its a guess that the '24' matches????
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The mag. may match from its rebirth as a police gun. It is not a matching mag from its original military conception.
A nice gun. Congratulations! dju |
What I know about it retains 98% of its original anodized finish throughout and it shows only very modest handling wear. The pistol also features all matching serial numbers.
The pistol was arsenal re-finished/re-worked in 1920 where the barrel was shortened to its current length. The gun was originally unit-marked on the inside grip area, but these markings were X-ed out during the arsenal refurbishment and are now illegible. This weapon has a sear safety. I assume that the original mag was damaged and/or lost to time and that a replacement mag was inserted and serial-numbered at the time of the arsenal refurbishment to match the gun. Unfortunately no other accessories, holster, extra magazine. Just the pistol. Hope that helps :cheers: |
It´s a "parts- gun": Receiver is DWM, toggle Erfurt.
Regards Klaus |
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Old information and not correct 1920 is not the arsenal remarking - see the FAQ to read about the 1920 gov't marking It would have been re marked whenever the unit changed or the gun went to a new police unit, could have been 1928 (or other date, sure not 1920). Was the barrel shortened? if frame was DWM, then yes |
Ahh, thanks. Yes the barrel was shortened.
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Klaus is correct.
This is not an Erfurt pistol. It is not what we call a matching numbers gun. It is a mismatched re-blued almost complete DWM - with a partial Erfurt toggle. The fact that the toggle train has the same numbers on it as the rest of the gun means nothing. The frame, barrel/barrel extension, and all small parts are DWM. This gun has been reblued again more recently (after the Police refurb/reissue). Is there a SN stamped behind the rear sight? (there should be but I don't see one). The matching mag is a nice touch but adds little value to the gun because: 1. the gun is not a complete original. 2. mag has been ground down and renumbered, but probably not by the police. 3. police issue mag should have a 1, 2, or 3 stamped on bottom. $1100-$1200 is top value, as a nice mostly matching DWM shooter. Sorry Maestro, it's probably not what you wanted to hear. - Geo |
Geo, I would want to see more before I would declare it reblued after the police.
The sear safety pin is in the white. I would want to see under it to see if it is in the white on the underside? Not all police guns receive a 1, 2 or 3 - I agree I expect to see it. Do you see obvious regrinding on the base? I did not, but I am on my laptop. It does look odd, I would want to see pictures from the sides to see if reground and a real close up of the numbers. |
Geo not a problem, as I'm looking for advise from advanced collectors; I will try to get more pictures from the seller regards to your questions. I'm also learning quiet a bit from Edward Tinker and will see if i can get from seller a better picture of the underneath of the safety pin.
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Unless you are looking for a shooter, and the price is right, I would avoid this made up luger. Bill
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It looks like a recent refinish to me. Blue in the pitting. Some of the edges ground round. I wouldn't pay more than $1000
But I am partial to guns with wear. Some people like the refinished look. |
When I looked at the photos I mentioned that the barrel has the TP (Technische Polizei) stamp and the acceptance mark of those years. It also has another "blue" than the rest of the Luger. I do not think that the pistol was reblued ever.
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numbers matching
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some more pictures i obtained
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The 1920 stamp was also used to identify police property and does not indicate the pistol belonged to the Army after WWI.
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We can read there only about weapons of the Reichswehr (Army and not the Police). I do not know why Police Lugers should have had a 1920 stamp at that time- they should/ may have had unit/ Police stamps. There are many more historical reasons that Police Lugers in 1920 do not got the 1920 stamp- allone my poor English does not allow to discuss them. |
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Can you see silver solder under the front sight band??? |
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If this had been an artillery, the barrel would have had to be replaced, not shortened to have the profile it has today. The gun's rear toggle would also have no sight notch.
I don't think the seller is very clear on this point. |
Didn't many Erfurts have the notch?
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ALL Erfurts had the notch.
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If we are talking about the front (Artillery cut) in the receiver, this appeared in 1916. Bill
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Ed,
After looking at the newer pictures that were posted, I would say only the toggle parts have been reblued. I see what looks like fresh blue in worn areas on the toggle. The back of the side plate looks original with white parts, but that is one of the worst looking 1917 chamber date stamps I've seen in awhile - it's shallow and looks buffed out, but is still blue? The finish difficult to evaluate from these pictures, but in any case, it's still just a 75% original gun. I hope the new owner really likes it. Quote:
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1915 Luger Artillery Holster Converted to Military Standard Luger
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Assuming that this was a Artillery Luger that was shortened, would this be an appropriate holster?
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It sure was an artillery but the toe closure looks very poorly done. My guess is it was cut down by some owner after the War. It is not the work expected by German saddlers. There are many good Police holsters on the market. Bill
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I doubt that any effort was made by the German police to match a reworked LP08 with a reworked LP08 holster. These would have gone through completely independent processes. A 1917 Erfurt could just as likely have been matched with a converted military P08 holster. And, as Bill says, there are many nicer reworked LP08 holsters on the market.
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i guess i was looking at it more in terms of the history the holster is telling just by looking at it, versus a perfect holster that would not convey the same message.
Simpson LTD had about 4 of these that are mostly missing certain things, or have tears, etc for about $150 each. This one is about $130 (no tears, nothing seems to be missing). |
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Can you tell me the meaning of L.S.Pol. please. Regards Klaus |
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That is what I thought... there were several "Police units" shortly after the Great War which have had more military character than Police and were disbanded by the IMKK like the PwB and all the others (in German we would say: Nicht bei allem wo Polizei draufstand war auch Polizei drin). That is a part of my first objection to the 1920 stamp on "Police" Lugers.
There is a good book about this time and the problems of the Germans with the IMKK. I got it from the late Joachim Goertz and it was basic for several discussions. I always see the Luger history with the time history and hope my poor English can be understand. Don thanks for the reply and best regards from Germany Klaus |
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