Carbine by Lugerman
 

Ok, I don't have it yet, but hoping it is getting to the end :rockon:

My process started in March 2013 and he was upfront and told me it would likely be 10-12 months (at least). As each month goes by I get more excited.

So, heres the story, I have read almost everything on Lugerman, AKA Eugene, I know he can be slow, but I have talked to him on phone and email and know he tries his best. In fact, most of the restore experts take a long time, as it takes time to strip, sand properly, then fix and reblue items. Literally months if they were only working on these items. And most of the experts I know don't do this for a living but as a hobby.

I started out discussing what kind of carbine I wanted. Did I want to use a DWM frame and be traditional?
Did I want to use a Simson frame and do it that way (my main choice, but to recreate all the eagle 6's correctly would be excessive IMO)
So, I had a G date, almost the very beginning of Mauser, so pre-war. I used cash and many trade parts for the carbine, plus supplying some of the components. I supplied a mix master G date (which I found out later was really parts of all ages ;)), supplied on purpose two fairly uncommon but beautiful Chrome plated Schmeisser flat button magazines (police) and two new blank bottoms of aluminum. Eugene usually uses wood, but he said he would make me a fantasy G date carbine in 9mm.

Since I am about 35 miles from where he lives, I plan on bugging him in person and seeing how things are :)

As a long standing member of the LugerForum, and a moderator there, I am very enthusiastic about Eugene's excellent work in re-creating some of the most iconic pistols of the 20th century...

OK, cool!!! I was hoping you would open a thread and detail some of the steps Eugene is taking in making this carbine!!! :thumbup:

I grabbed a couple of his carbine pics, and frankly I'm ignorant about Luger carbines and Lugers in general.

Now, for the questions...What is the difference between these two...

http://www.lugerman.com/images/Sampl...4/_J201098.jpg

http://www.lugerman.com/images/Sampl...9/_E041750.jpg

I can see that one has a barrel mounted 4-position carbine rear sight, and the other has a 2-position (?) toggle mounted rear sight...

Did Eugene really use a Navy to make a carbine??? Or is that a toggle he made himself???

Are the shoulder stocks all the same???

They both have 16"+ barrels...Are they legally classed as rifles???

I am excited to see your carbine as it happens!!! Step by step!!! Maybe you could take pics at every major milestone!!! :thumbup:

My big questions were;

1. Is it test fired and works well - answer yes
2. How many parts are original - answer as many as possible, those he can't get, he makes it !

I assume that includes many parts

... :eek: ...I would be over there every week taking pictures!!! :D

Edit: I know there is a lug on the front of the frame, silver soldered...But is it also dovetailed into the frame, or inletted, or located/fastened by some other method??? Silver solder/brazing doesn't seem like a very substantial means of anchoring that long handguard & lug...

Process om 1920 Carbine
 

The navy toggle on the second carbine is from a European maker, I did not make that one. But times have changed ;0)


Hook is attached by silver alloy and is the way the original carbines have been done, George Luger trusted silver , who am I to question that ;0)


I will start posting pictures of the process to help an excitement build up even more ;0)

Thanks for the attention

well you know I am anxious :rolleyes: :thumbsup:

I think many folks don't realize all the steps involved, and I poorly stated so above.

The question Rich wants to know :cheers: is when MY carbine will be done :)

Carbine Parts set - Step -1
 

Here is a parts set that will go in to making a carbine.

If you have any questions on what's what let me know.

I wondered is there any state of federal laws governing the production or transportation of Eugenes ' carbines? ~~Eric

they have a 16 inch barrel so not a true luger carbine (which is the way they have to be made for us)

Step 2 Barrel work
 

Front sight silver soldered in

Rear sight silver soldered in

Barrel installed

Step 3 Stock work
 

Rear stock iron fitted to the frame

Rear stock iron fitted to rear stock

Excellent!!! :thumbup:

I love watching a piece of art evolve!!! :)

Interesting that the rear sight base on this carbine is of the 'split' type...

I don't recognize the wood, but it reminds me of a story I heard at the last gun club meeting...There is a small Amish community nearby, and they offered to clear some local land of trees...The trees were 'black walnut'...An Amish work crew spent a weekend felling and cutting up the trees and hauling the wood away...We assume they plan on making furniture from the lumber... :rolleyes:

yikes, I recognize that gun - cool

Eugene you keep adding and I'll make a sticky (unless I am too prejudiced, then folks just tell me).

Rich, lots of guys who fell trees or cut up the ones from storms harvest the wood, I am ok with that. We have tree cutters coming out this monday for my neighbors and some of our big branches, I am tempted to ask the logs be cut into reasonable pieces and I would finish up the rest for next years firewood (no oak or the like)

I would like to see this a 'sticky', covering the evolution of this particular Luger into a carbine. Fascinating stuff! :thumbup:

I meant no criticism of the harvesting of lumber - If I could, I would encourage it. The trees were only going to be bulldozed for a mobile home development. Better that they go to artisans who appreciate the raw materials that their works are made from...

For customization build, it will be very interesting to build a Luger or Mauser carbine to shoot .30 Carbine cartridge... to see how it performs. Probably can match M1 Carbine's performance, @ more compact size.

I knew I shouldn't even peek at this thread. Now it is starting all over again and that pile of carbine parts I have is calling me again, even though I know I can't even afford to buy the grips for one......sigh.

I am curious what the original length of the carbines were? I know absolutely nothing about the carbines, but I am always trying to expand on my knowledge.

Definitely going to be a cool piece to have in your collection Ed.

...Uh...What???... :eek:

You do realize that the 30 Carbine cartridge is over a half-inch longer than the 9mm Parabellum cartridge...Eugene would have to cut & piece together two frames, somehow stretch the breechblock, fabricate a special widened magazine... :(

...And stop work on Ed's carbine... :rolleyes:

sounds like what Martz used to do - but he did not do a 30 carbine, I think the longest was a 38 super?

Rich, the wood appears to me to be black walnut. There's an area that was freshly shaped or sanded, and its slightly pinkish appearance leads me to this opinion. It would finish up more of a warm brown, like current Thompson semis.

Oh...I thought black walnut was that really dark, almost black, colored walnut... :o

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how Eugene shapes it...I looked at the pics on the Ironwood Designs site showing their CNC wood lathe/workstation...That is cool!!! I am wondering if Eugene has one of those...With the checkering attachment & program... :)

I think that may be correct. The wood turns redish brown with nice warm color. This is last of the batch of 10 cuts i had. Grips will be cut from the same wood. Looking for new slubs all the time. Anyone got new walnut that is taking up space let me know. I got 3 stumps 2 years back. Of an American walnut and its been drying waiting fir its day. 5 years back someone send me wood that was a marble red and gray, best cut i have ever seen. Was not able to find anything like that ever agein. I think one of the examples posted is that gun.

Cnc
 

CNC is wishfull thinking. I got a manual big ass variable speed bridgport and a tallented machinist that came with it :0).

Next plan is to make the 45 luger in a small batch, and then get a CNC for a big run. Will happen some day,if one dears to dream.

Chekering and fitting all done by hand. I do have the chekering head but do not like,to use it it comes handy for the stock and forearm. Grips i cut by hand most of the time.

English walnut
 

English walnut i have seen has black stripes in it, and the wood itself of a light brown with a yellow sand like tone.

This wood is darker more reddish color.

So, photos of the carbine anytime soon?

Doug - I believe the 'G' date Luger that Eugene has posted pics of is the Luger that Ed supplied for the conversion... :)

So, it's coming along... :thumbup:

Absolutely! It would be great if Eugene could cover the process in step-by-step pictures, I'm sure that it would make a lot of people understand and appreciate all the tedious work that goes into a project like this. :cheers:

Ollie, I am saving the pertinent posts by Eugene and will have a great step by step in one place - good for him - good for us.

I just am excited and want to see it in real life. Need to just go see him (make an appointment)

Ed

yes, I have already split off posts by you and a few others, simply to show the progression and eventual firing of the carbine by me. It is in a moderated status so I can add to it, but no one else can see. That said, as you add to this thread, I will add to that one :)

And you already know I am excited to see it done and a shining example of your work :)

Any other members with Carbines or carbine projects in progress?

gizmo

More carbines
 

Hi,
I got 3 on order this year with Ed's,
I got room for 2 more.

Until next batch at the end of next year.

Is that because it takes a year to complete five carbines???...Or do you do different groups of projects in 'batches'??? :confused:

Carbines
 

Both ... ;0)

Mostly because they are a pain in the a$$

And not exactly money makers ..
I do little at a time when there is nothing else to do.

But mostly because i cut parts for them in small batches,
like rear sight and stocks and forearm blanks.

Once i do the milling for them , i do not get time on the mill because it's doing something else , not carbines, until next year.

Overall, in the past 5 years i turned around about 5 a year, give or take.

Last year there was a strange time when i had 3 sitting ready in the safe waiting for payments.

I decided to take the picture of the two next to each other.

Only happened once in past 5 years ;0)

They sell faster then i can make them , that's for sure.

Thanks for your interest.

well I hope you sell all five but of course I am looking for a package with MY name on it, hah, hah

so, what comes after Step 3 ?

Step 4
 

I will fit the front sight,
checker the front ramp
Put numbers on the rear sight
and fit the rear sight slider
and cut the chamber to the toggle assembly.

All happening tomorrow i hope,
today i am taking care of some other screaming customers ;0)

The comment by Eugene is very demeaning. Of course I am not stupid enough to try to put a spring in without taking the lever out first. There is no spring in there to take out because Eugene already said it must not have ever been installed by him as the lever has fallen out every time I have broken the gun down.
He first told me to take the forearm off?????
I am looking for the hole to put the stem end of the spring into and get the spring in there. Of course I have to know where and which position the spring should be in such as: which end goes up, down, left, or right. And where to find the hole. Next how to get it into the space? Bend it? How to hold in place???
Jack

If Eugene's fore-end lug design really covers the spring hole, in future, perhaps the lug should include a larger access hole which gives access to the smaller hole in the frame. Creating dead end holes where debris can accumulate or a part can break off and remain without a "through" option for pushing it out is never a good design.

relationship of carbine stock extension to locking lever and spring o
 

Ron...I have some pics of an original installation as well as my work in progress that will be of interest, clarifying the current discussion considerably, I believe... but for the life of me can't transmit them via my Ipad with I0S 7. If I can some how send via a direct email, that might defeat the Ipad demons, but there must be a better way?

Suggestions anybody?

Thanks,


gizmo

Ipad issues, locking springs, carbine extensions, etc.
 

Thanks, Ed...IOS 7 seems to have some warts, though it is very pretty. If you have not yet transitioned, probably wise to wait a bit until they are worked out. This issue seems to be one of them. There are ways to send images, but rather obtuse, to say the least and it must be done in some format I am yet to figure out.

So be on the look out for a straight forward email with included photos, that I emailed to myself (Ipad will do that!)

Your assistance is greatly appreciated, past and present!

gizmo

... :confused: ...Is that an original Luger carbine, a Eugene conversion, or someone else's fabrication???