Take down lever (which way?)
 

So I think my take down lever spring is a little weak and just now I was messing with it.
Is the lever held in at all? With it in the down position I pulled on it a little and it started coming out. It scared me as I didn't have my slop sink handy. Put it popped right back in.
Luger doc? Are you around? I sent email and PM this week asking for take down lever spring. Hope you are ok.
Thanks

Tony,

It sounds like it's weak or broken, and you should embark on the journey of replacing it. Lugerdoc checks in about once a week, I think, to answer questions like this and let you know if he has the part in stock. If you sent a PM, he'll get to it eventually.

Tom normally has these springs in stock.

There should be a slight curve and thinning in the middle of the long arm of this spring.

It's held in place by the take down lever itself.

The curve slips into the slot cut into the take down lever in both the open and closed positions. If the spring is weak or has flattened out, it becomes too easy to slip the take down lever out of the frame when it's in the down position.

Marc

Tony, lugerdoc is in the process of changing his email address next week to lugerdoc@charter.net if that name is available, you may give it a try.

Lon

That is exactly what is happening.
I PM's Lugerdoc and sent an email to his new email address. Hopefully he will see my PM so I can get a new spring.

his phone number is listed in the links -n- resources section along the left side of the homepage of the forum too.

Thanks, I will call him. He is probably still switching his service provider which might not be so easy on his Commodore 64...
:)

Went shooting again today but didn't fire the Luger much. Every third shot or so the take down lever moves down. Then to safely push it back you have to take out the mag, clear the gun and push back on the slide. Also I am worried about hurting something.
I will call Lugerdoc tomorrow. I don't want to bother him on a Sunday.
I won't be shooting for a few weeks anyway since my wedding is October 6th.
Still had fun today with the P38 and my AR.

Congratulations on your upcoming marital bliss.
dju

Congratulations and all the best with your new married life, and since we all like to give well intentioned advice in cases like this here is mine: Do whatever you have to do to convince her that investing in Lugers is a wise financial decision that will be a great benefit to her well being in her later years, may not work but what the heck, it's worth a try. And before you ask the inevitable question, no, it hasn't worked for me yet but I have only been married 52 years so I figure I still have time left to convince her. :cheers:

Lon

So far she tells me when it is ok to buy my next gun. My new date is after January 1st....
I have a few more other pistols I want before additional Lugers but I do want more.
Next is a ww2 Army 1911. After that is a Lufwaffe Walther PP. Unless I run into a good deal Luger. Luger wise I would like a BYF 42. The P38 I picked up recently is a rare BYF 42 so that might be a way of collecting. Try to get everything in 1942

That said, I love the 1916 DWM I just got. It is a fine gun and I don't think I will ever sell it. It shoots dead on at 25 yards.

Got the take down lever spring from Lugerdoc today. Thanks Tom.
Well, this thing is tiny. Let me compare it to the old one. Hmm, looks the same. Got the old one in my left hand and the new one in my right hand.
Wait, got the old one in my right hand and the new one in my left hand....
****
Let me look at them under a magnifying glass. Hmm, this must be the new one.
So, I slipped it in place. Cleaned out the grooves and the lever slips right in. No slop sink, no hips.
Hmm, doesn't seem like much more resistance? Could I have?
Ok, take the lever back out and compare them again. Maybe this is the new one???
Put it in place and slipped the lever right back in. No slop sink, no hips.
I think the lever has a fraction more resistance. But I was expecting more. I won't be able to shoot for a couple of weeks to find out.
Dang!

Tony,

If this is the case, check the condition of the edges of the little grooves in the shaft of the takedown lever, in and out of which the "hump" in the spring slips as the lever is rotated. Are they well-defined, or rounded and worn? With the upper removed, is there there play allowed for the lever when it and the spring are in place? Obvious or easily-obtainable play might point to excessive wear of the hole. You might be able to use the shank of a drill bit from a numbered index to check the fit to see if the hole thru the front of the frame is out of round. If the bit just makes it through, but can still be wiggled in one direction, the hole is oval, likely from the forceful hammering it takes when the upper returns to battery--The lever in the hole is the top assembly's forward "stop".

I hesitate to say it, because some other members may roast me, but adjusting the tang of the side plate to ride a bit off the frame might just do the trick. It is a common remedy for firming up a side plate that "jiggles" as the trigger system is tensioned by pressing the trigger. You have heretofore made no mention of that problem, but perhaps it has not been noticed. But this approach may just give the lever a touch more resistance to rotating when the mainspring pressure on it is temporarily relieved during a cycle. The more official restorative approach would be to have the deficit filled by TIG welding and then re-establish the precise diameter hole. I think compensating for it would be my choice, so as not to disturb the finish--and to spare major outlay of $$$.

I don't need to relate again how this adjustment is accomplished as it has been discussed several times on the forum--once, fairly recently. Just do a search for "loose side plate".

The side plate is not loose and the lever has no play. The groove edges in the lever are nice and square.
What I was thinking was that if this slightly extra resistance wasn't enough to keep the lever up to try to bend the old take down lever spring a little to give it a bit more bend.
I realize this is hardened and might not work. What about that?
It might be fixed already as there is a slight click when I lower the lever with the, what I think is the, new spring. I was just expecting more.

Well, I couldn't leave well enough alone.
So I took what I think is the old spring and bent it a little. It actually bends pretty easy and must not be that hardened.
The lever got a little harder to put in but the lever still is pretty easy to lower. So I kept adjusting it.
I had to tap the lever in by the third adjustment but the lever is still pretty easy to lower. Though it has a bit more of a notch. But not as much as when it is completely down.
I examined the slot again and it looks fine and the edges are not at all round. I am not really sure what is going on.

I can't understand how adjusting the side plate would affect the take down lever but I will do some searches. Though I am not going to rush into any adjustments there. It might be fine the way it is and I will wait with further work until I get a chance to shoot it.

I am open to more opinions about this issue.

In the FWIW dept, mine is so tight that I have to use the tool to open the lever (Yes, I'm pressing/holding the barrel back). Closing it is tight, but not prohibitively so.

That is what I was expecting with a new spring. I don't think the hole is oversized. There is no jiggle and the fit seems good. I am kind of stumped.

Nobody has ever run into this problem?

Bending the sideplate "ear" out a bit creates tention against the takedown lever, once it starts rotating and locking itself into the frame. It is unusual to find a lever that is this loose once you have addressed all the issues you describe. The only thing that comes to mind is to try a different lever to see if that functions normally.

Your original lever may have been buffed just past "spec" by a factory worker, thus making it always a loose fit.

Oh, I get it now. That makes sense. I will try that. Thanks

So which way do I bend it?
https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/...73948024_n.jpg

It is a fix.. but, I wouldn't advise it??... Not because it won't work, but may create other issues you then have to contend with... I have, in my private stash, a brand new, original, armorer's replacement hold open spring you can try?? When correct, the lever is almost impossible to install, as in, you'll know!! No reflection on the springs you have purchased, as most all that are available are removed from unknown used firearms... With mine, If it works, $25.00.. If not the problem, then it's free... Let me know.. best to you Tony, til..lat'r...GT :cheers:

Tony, in the for what its worth department this company advertises that it has the springs, both repos and original.

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/lugerp08.aspx?page=2

Before "bending" the sideplate I would suggest comparing it to another one to see if it looks out of line.

Like Zormpas, my social piece almost needs a tool to start it down, I assume to get it past the spring in the groove. I just figured that was because my hands are weeker than I'd like to admit any more.

Best of luck

Gary

Ok, so I got a new spring from G.T. it is a little bit oversized. I put it in and got the lever back in. Actually pretty easy with a little tap in the right place. Now it was so stiff the lever wouldn't close. So out it came again and a little bend from the pliers and back in.
PERFECT!
I can operate it with my fingers but it has just the right amount of resistance. I am happy. And no bending on the side plate.
We are going shooting tomorrow and my wife will actually come. Her first time shooting a gun.

I had one jamb out of about 80 rounds. The lever stayed put.
What a wonderful shooting pistol. It is now my favorite. My wife did her first ever shooting. Four of my pistols and one rifle and two of my BIL pistols and one rifle. Guess which was her fav?

Great report Tony! Sure glad your honey likes to shoot (first consideration) and that she likes the Luger. My wife sticks to her S&S m19. No cocking, no safety, just grab it and use it.

Did you get a newer mag or mag spring? If so and you still get jams where the new round is sticking straight up you may want to check that spring tension again.

My rule of thumb is that "if you can load a mag without a loading tool the spring is too soft" There certainly can be other factors but an original mag that has been left loaded for some time can be a bad shooting mag.

Keep up the fire.

Gary

Mec Gar mag with G.T. spring. I figure 1 out of 80 is about average?

Tony,

I'm glad your Luger is finally working good now. Your wife is a first time ever shooter and she gets to fire a Luger? That's excellent - first time and she's in love (ha-ha)!

Don''t know what the GT spring does for you but my stock Mecgar mags get a FTF about every once every 2-3 full loaded mags. But best shooting mags I have are the old ones. Don't know why, they all look the same to me, but there must be minute differences in the feed lips or springs.

BTW, I've been reading some of your posts and I think you got a better deal than you realize.

-Geo

I agree about my deal. I paid retail but it is a wonderful piece and at today's prices I see people paying $800 for mismatched stuff. The grips takes mine down in value a little though the repros are decent. But I made a deal on this forum for a nice set. Hope they fit. All I need is my next paycheck.
:)

Malfunctions... many, few??
 

Hi Guys, malfunctions come in many sizes! Every shot, or every other shot...or one shot in a thousand... or, none! Every luger shooters dream.. The three main factors that affects Luger function in my mind are as follows, and in order of importance are.... Or at least in order of troubleshooting.. as in easiest first, 1st, Ammo! The luger is a ballet of balanced forces... Ammo is first, not to strong, not to light, Win white box just right... Also, OA length is important as well.... 2nd, Next is mainspring.. part of the ballet....at least start new and strong.... And 3rd, the dancer, the magazine... If you are having frequent malfunctions, it is probably one of these players.. if not so frequent, it can still be one of the three, but is most likely a smaller harder to find malfunction.. but, coming in at 4th at this point is the extractor, or weak extractor spring...More ammo will have to be found... and more ammo will have to go down range... and note the type and frequency... tuning & timing... :jumper:...and shooting, all great fun!!...I have a byf mis-match that has yet to malfunction in at least a thousand rounds!! :eek:...best to all, til...lat'r....GT:cheers:

I will see if it is a pattern. My BIL's brand new Kimber 1911 had one malfunction that day. My P38 none, my Sig none. My Ruger 22 none.
There is more I can do to my Luger. The mag has a little wiggle when fully engaged. It might have been a fluke.

GT - thanks for the brief tutorial.
So I shouldn't be using my unknown reloads I bought off a friend?
I'll have to try some Win 115gr. I have been using S&B 115 FMJ.

I should probably know this, but what is OA length?

- Geo

reloads??
 

Hi Geo, reloads are fine... maybe even preferable...but only on working guns... they are not a good benchmark for troubleshooting... Not because they aren't perfect when made by some of the members.. but a very large percentage of us, like me, haven't the skillsets to make them so?? So we must rely on what's commercially available, that give us the best near original dimensions and performance, and most important, consistency... I think most WWB ammo measure 1.160" and that is very close to what is spec'ed... There are others here that can supply more info on that! I think the PMC ammo may be a near perfectly acceptable performance clone.. as is probably S & B, and maybe some others I'm not aware of... If you run 100 rounds thru with no issues.. you are on line for dependability!!! Maybe all mags should be matched to the guns when they perform flawlessly... seems to be a rare thing of beauty when they run like a Swiss watch.. gott'a love them!...:cheers:... Best to all, til...lat'r....GT

Hi Geo, when G.T. mentioned OA length he meant the Over All length.


Lon

Oal
 

Hi Geo, yes, sorry about that I should have written OAL, over all length....very important....:cheers::cheers:,,best to you, til..lat'r...GT

Tony,

Glad you got the takedown lever tightened up with the spring that G.T. provided.

The Luger is a very interesting, and perhaps unique mechanism. As mentioned, it's design is very dependent upon correct balance of forces (including recoil against your grip) for proper functioning.

You will probably not encounter another firearm design and implementation that is so precision in nature. There is a reason that many parts on a military Luger pistol were numbered. Much of the precision was accomplished with hand fitting.

This is unlike more modern firearm designs. They have quite a bit more tolerance to slight irregularities. In fact, this ability to function with less precision in the mechanism is a significant advantage on the battlefield.

Is there a way to test/measure the recoil spring while in the gun? I have never known a good way to do that, thus I always start trouble shooting (depending on the way the malfunction has occoured) with the mag. It, for me, is the easiest thing to RO. Obviously if your toggle assembly is not going back into battery the mainspring pops to the top of the list.

If the mainspring is out of the gun is there a compression test that can tell you if it is stout enough?

Gary

I think you probably want the strongest possible spring that still allows the hold open to work properly. Too soft of a spring would allow the toggle to hit the back of the frame. Not a good thing. Also, once you find ammo that works, don't switch brands.
If you think about it. It is no wonder the Germans lost the war....
Not really true though. They made like a million P38's to replace the Luger. A way superior pistol and more dependable.
I like them both. But the Luger is my favorite. But I wouldn't want my life to depend on it.

If my memory serves(that is always questionable), Brownell sells a tool that can measure the poundage of recoil/and ? other springs. Then you can compare your findings against what is correct for the gun.

Gary,

If you search around the site, you'll find a thread that discusses this and there were a couple proposals and attempts to gather comparative measurements of the strengths of installed mainsprings. Most involve a simple scale and some way of connecting the acton to the scale. One way was to insert a wooden dowel down the barrel and measure what it takes to move the action while pressing the pistol down onto the scale with the dowel sticking out enough to be what is moved. The other way was to put the pistol into a padded vise, muzzle up, and measure what weight pull was necessary to pull the toggle back connecting the knobs to a fish scale with a cord--which would not m,ar the finish.

You'll be able, either way, to compare installed spring strengths using the data achieved. So, no need to invest in anything extra...

D.P.