Bayonets of Imperial Germany 1871-1918
 

A wonderful and informative site! ~~~Eric http://worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Ide...2.html#TopPage

Funny you bring up bayonets. I was in books a million last night here near charlotte and I found a book about bayonets that I bought for like 18 bucks I think. I bought a S98/14 bayonet for the Gewehr 98. It has the sawback blade on it, which I didn't know anything about it.

Well come to find out they made two different kinds. One with the sawback and one without. The sawback was made for the pioneers and the other was for the infantry units.

I was curious about the pioneers, what did they do?

I did some research on S98 bayonet and most sites and authors stated, the sawback was for Pioneers (Engineers) and MG units since both units had to cut away brush and it was issued to NCOs which became a status symbol of their rank. I have one in very nice condition.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....pictureid=2557

Nice Display!

That is a really cool display Ed. Mine don't look that nice, but its that exact style. I paid 40 bucks for it at a flea market. How much do these bayonets really go for?

Im curious about the "F R" markings on the helment. What do they stand for?

The FR stood for Frederic Rex, Frederick the Great, King of Prussia.

You got a great buy at that price, anywhere from 125.00 to 250.00 with scabbard and I've seen them higher. Many of the sawtooth models had the teeth ground off after the war, Geneva Convention requirement I hear. Not too many survive the war with teeth that were in use after the war that stayed in Germany. Nasty things those teeth.............

Reading in the bayonet book I got last night said that the sawback was found to be wholly useless as a cutting tool and was later deleted from production, with many pioneer bayonets having the saw back ground off. During WWI Britian made much propaganda of the germans' use of saw backed blades and the injuries they could cause. The british themselves chose to ignore their own previous use of saw back blades.

For those that are interested in bayonets, I got this book I have from books a million for really cheap. It shows pictures and brief details of all bayonets for each nation throughout the years. A total of 256 pages from front to back.

Its called:
BAYONETS
AN ILLUSTRATED HISTORY
BY: MARTIN J. BRAYLEY

I have so many bayonets I know nothing about, so maybe I can find out a little information on them now.

New Book On Subject!!
 

I just purched mine. It was his last. I'm sure its available on Amazon~~ I decided to include some sample pages!

Curious about markings on sawback pioneer bayonet
 

Ed, I am curious anout your markings on the backside of the blade. Mine has a "W" over "14" and a crowned gothic letter underneath the W over 14.

I understand that the "W" stands for the Prussian Kaiser Wilhem II. and the gothic letter just an inspection stamp. The book I have about bayonets shows a "W" OVER "06".

I am curious about at what year was the sawbacks fazed out. Mine does have the extended muzzle ring ears. I didn't get a scabbard with it so I don't know which one would have came with it.

I attached a few pics showing mine, which are poor pictures, but you can get the idea. There are signs of corrosion occurring to the blade itself. Is the a way to stop the corrosion without damaging the old look that needs to be desired on this old bayonet.

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well I tried to download the pics. It doesn't like to download pics from my phone for some reason.

Mine was made by JH Becker Solingen and has a ser# 2496 on both the blade and the scabbard. I have a crown over a worn off W and a completely worn off date. These bayonets were made by different states and the stamp would depend where such as the state of Bavaria was a state within a state that had agreed alignment with the King of Prussia, same as Saxony and if their model 1898s were made within their state, the stamp would reflect that. Because my state stamp is worn off but since it was made in Solingen, it went to a Prussian regular unit such as a Hessian unit.

My understanding that the british put up such a fuss at the sawback model, that it was put into the Treaty of Versailles that the sawbacks were to be ground off if re-issued to their 100,000 man army allowed by the treaty. You'll still find some WWII sawbacks bayonets but these were special ordered for a presentation duty award. Like the 1889 sawback model was a rank prestigious issued sidearm, so a sawback model K98 was also as a presentation model during WWII. You'll find many model 1898s with the saw top grounded off for re-issue during the Weimar period.
BTW, britian toyed with their own idea of sawbacks.

Came across one today that was going for $175.00, no scabbard and non-sawtooth in not so great condition..

i was just looking on ebay and they also had some that were as high as $300 i think. But they were in excellent condition. I still havent seen another one on ebay that is made by simson co. And suhl yet.

Yours being, what you think issued to the hessian unit, are you also a collector of the hessian lugers with the h.p. Markings?

Nope, just used Hessian as an example, it could have been issued to a Bremen or a Baden unit or any "Prussian" unit. Saxony, Bavaria and Wurttemberg had their own military and rulers, they were part of the Prussian confederation which totally dissolved at the end of WWI. They all took their orders from the Kaiser. Any model 1898 made in Saxony, Bavaria or Wurttemberg would have had their own state crown of their monarch and made in their own factory.

Perhaps the majority of bayonettes were made in the city of Solingen from which they were delivered. The Royal acceptance marks were added by the individual kingdoms. Here are a few of my blades.

I'm sure that happened also, contracts are contracts no matter who fulfilled them. Suhl and Solingen were the two major makers and would continue for years ahead, especially Solingen. The famous Sword of Solingen was traded to a GI for a pack of cigarettes in WWII from an article I read years ago. At that time the city wanted it back. I think they did but not sure.

Not to change subjects on bayonets. But I posted pics of the attached folding knife awhile back. I think it was Ron who commented on it being a cutlery knife of some sort. I used to think it was a bayonet when I was younger. It was given to my father from his father . Its been in the family as far back as I can remember. I have looked and looked over the internet trying to find out something and I still know nothing about it. maybe someone can give some insight on it since we are talking blades.

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Here ya go Skeeter..................as George pointed out, most makers came out of Solingen and Suhl. Here is a list of all the manufacturers and check out the other links for more info.

http://worldbayonets.com/Misc__Pages..._markings.html

Skeeter........do a search for 19th century folding bowie knives. Yours is unique that it doesn't fold but retracts back into the handle.

According to the photos, his knive folds, not retracts. The blade is simply much longer than the handle, so when folded, it exposes less of the blade.

I'm not clear on what the practical use of this feature would be.

It is a German hunting knife. It is a compact form of a "Hirschfänger", the typical German forestry cutlass. In the folded configuration it is simply a hunting knife. In the extended (unfolded) configuration it is a short sword ostensibly used to administer the "coupe de grace" to downed game.

Being a folder, it presumably was more compact, easier to carry and less ornate (i.e. practical) than the more ceremonial cutlass.

P.S. Yes, it was me that had commented on this piece of cutlery in the earlier thread.

You are correct, I missed a photo. At my age it's a curse being deaf and dumb in both eyes. :thumbup:

I believe it's a less expensive model of a Hirschfanger. It would have originally had a leather scabbard that the closed knife would drop into.

Yes the knife does fold out to full length, but does not have a locking mechanism at that length. Possibly something missing to allow it to lock at that length. At the shorter length it locks fine. Then press the button on the side of the handle to release the blade outward. I never did remember seeing a scabbard to it. At least as far back as I can remember. But who knows, me and my brothers could have lost it when we were kids. I do remember playing sword fighting with my older brother with this knife and an old civil war sword, I think it was called the "old wristbreaker". My dad used to beat our asses for playing with them like we did. Now I know why he did. Needless to say they both survived our childhood and now I own them.

As for the folding knife I'll keep looking with the information yall provided so I can find out as much information about it. My dad always wanted to know what it was used for and where it came from (country origin and year). He is in his mid 70's and his health is deteriorating pretty badly these days. Hopefully I can pinpoint the exact origin about it before he passes away. He came by my house recently and was looking at it and just having some old memories about it. I really think that particular item is the one thing that reminds him about his father the most.

Thanks for the information

Bastet was a Dutch manufacturer of high quality cutlery and surgical supplies since 1684, located in central Amsterdam.
They went out of business only in 1981. At some point they changed the name to T.F. Bastet (around the last quarter of the 19th century), having been purveyor to the royal household for different periods of time (at least during the late 17th and late 19th century).

Doing my search online I found T.F. Bastet markings on speed skates from 1890-1900. I do remember the last time we talked about this knife I did find some shaving style folding knives. But there were not any that stuck out when folded.

I looked up the German style hunting knives / cutlass (Hirschfanger) and most of them had some kind of hand guard on it and they had some length to them usually around 20". I think the total length of my blade is around 12" to 14". So I'm not sure if it would be a hunting style, but the blade is thick enough to do some damage.

But they were definitely in Amsterdam. It be cool to find one that is close to what I have with some kind of description. I'll keep on searching.