Frozen Extractor, can't see into chamber
 

it's been in a relatives closet for 50 years and looks to be in great shape but the round extractor on the top of the slide won't go up? I oiled it but i can't get it to come up to see into the chamber? Can it just be rusted shut? It looks to be in great shape. How can i fix?

There is a small spring that holds the extractor into position. It's possible that it is rusted, or jammed with debris.

Try drifting out the pin that is holding the extractor into the breech block. Do it slowly and carefully with the proper drifting punch. With it removed, the extractor should come straight off the breech block. Then you can inspect and clean the well where the spring is.

--- See following posts about the "toggles" rather than the extractor ---

Marc

Are you talking about the thin extractor down the middle of the top or are you referring to the toggle assembly and the round knobs to raise the toggle?
dju

Sounds like the toggle knobs, to me. If you can't draw them up (and back), you can't see into the chamber.

I'd carefully remove the grips and immerse the whole gun in a good penetrant/rust buster before I did anything else in this situation.

Eric, does the barrel extension move in relation to the grip frame? You can check by pushing the muzzle against a stout but padded surface, like an old book, etc. The entire top end of the pistol should move back about 1/4", and the toggle knobs should contact the ramps/ears near them on the top, back of the frame, which, when firing, influence them to begin traveling upward. If the top end is free, it can be removed and its components carefully freed up from the rust bond. This would be part of the process of field-stripping, anyway, to check for serial numbers on the small parts in that system. YouTube has several videos showing how it's done. If the action won't budge, soak it first for a day or three, while you come back for more advice. Don't forget to remove the wood "furniture"!

Can a gun that looks great on the outside be rusted shut? Neglected for decades, you betcha!

BTW, welcome to the forum.

Since we know nothing of which model this is, it may be an early gun with the old style sear bar with the safety on, as well.
Eric, was the safety off and the magazine removed from the pistol when you tried this?

I think alanint hit the nail on the head. They cannot cycle toggle because the safe is on.

Or a 1900 with the toggle lock...

Also, silly question, but are we absolutely certain that there is not a live round in the chamber?
If I could not peer into the chamber from the rear, I might very carefully stick something into the muzzle to measure depth.
Some will recommend looking for the word GELADIN sticking up on the top. Not me.
But that is a risky business for a person not familiar with Lugers and not recommended.
Anyway, I'm getting nervous here without photos of the gun AND Newmanos agreeing to wait patiently while we get him thru this without injury or damage.
dju

Good advice. I based my theory on the statement that the gun "looks to be in great shape", which would preclude most rust and damage theories.

thanks all, ill try what ithacaartist said, i'll remove grips and soak it with penetrant and see if it frees it up.

First of all, are you certin that the chamber is empty?

yes I am certain the chamber is empty i have been extremely cautious

It is not an early model, 1935 Model.

the barrel extension does move back to where the toggles touch the ramps but it just wont go up. i took the grips off and sprayed it down good with penetrant and will let it sit for a couple days.

And you are certain that the safety is in the off position, so that you can NOT read the writing under the safety lever?

yes.

Newmanos: OK, soak it overnight in light oil, diesel or kerosene. Where are you located?
Guys, should he use a dowel into the muzzle with the gun assembled and with the battery to the rear bump against he breech face to force the toggle up, or remove the top half, remove the rear toggle pin, and then go against the breech face?
I wish I had it here in front of me...
dju

If the upper moves back, try to rotate the take-down lever down to release the side plate from its position and move the top end forward and out of the frame. I'm thinking the entire upper might just slip out at this point.

If this can be accomplished, you'll be more likely to see what the problem is, plus have access all around it And at that point the rear toggle axle will be accessible. If it can be slid/gently tapped out from right to left, you're on the right track; even better if the breech block will slip back and out of the extension, using the other David's technique--at which point you'll also be able to gently apply a little force by hand to flex/rotate the joints. DJU's suggestion to soak it means, I believe, to immerse it entirely. This way, none of the kerosene will drip/dry off.

We can go farther explaining how to clean the joints before re-lubricating, but will wait until you report the previous steps are accomplished successfully.

I got the entire upper off, Now i can't get the toggle pin out.

Simple way to check if loaded:
Put a stick in through the muzzle and measure how far it goes on.
Withdraw and compare distance from muzzle to front of breech block outside.

The difference in distance will say enough.

Once again after triple checking that the gun is empty:
The rear toggle pin only goes out from right towards the left side looking down on the gun.
Let's let it soak a bit longer, overnight perhaps.
Then I would take a short piece of wood like a 2x4 and drill a hole, maybe 3/8" diameter and about an inch deep. You will lie the left side of the barrel extension assy. flat on the block and very carefully use a brass punch to drive the toggle pin from the right side out of the left. Place it on the wood so that the pin will go down into the hole that you drilled. Be careful and don't go all brutal on it.
A bit of heat from a hair dryer style heat gun may help too, but it will make the part hot and harder to handle. Also you could apply some heat and they re-emerge the gun in the penetrant soak. (Those heat guns are quite inexpensive at your local Harbor Freight type of tool store. ) Actually, heating the stuck parts and then re-soaking the gun (without grips of course), may be the solution to your problems.
Again, soak it in a good penetrant, dry it well and apply a bit of heat (no flames), use a brass drift pin punch, support the part well on wood, and tap right to left.
Be careful and remember that the damage you do can not be undone.
Another option I should mention is to slap a stamp on it and send it to the LugerDoc.
If you have any questions or doubts, please stop and post your concerns. Do not rush or feel like you have to get it apart now. Patience.
dju

Instead of a metal pin to drive out the rear axle pin, consider using a bamboo chop stick. These have reasonable linear strength, and are not likely to damage anything. If it takes more force than this, there is something else holding it in.

If you have made sure it isn't loaded:

With the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, see if you can relieve the firing pin spring tension by pushing in on the front of the sear.

Marc

Now i can't get the toggle pin out..It pushes out right to left with the muzzle downrange.

I got the upper off and soaked it. I'm happy to report i was able to free it up and get the toggles up to see into the chamber which was empty. I was gunked up, didn't look like rust more like hardened grease. I couldn't get the toggle pin out though to get the rest of the upper apart to clean. should i soak it again and hope that loosens up too? I didn't want to be banging on it with a screwdriver. So far every part i was able to views numbers matched. thanks again for all your help. I have field stripped quite a bit of guns in the past but never one of these.

Congratulations! Sounds like you have done a good job!
Regarding getting that pin out, I'd continue to soak it and forget the brutal stuff now that you have the toggles moving. You can get a lot done with it as is and there is no sense risking damage.
If you search YouTube you will find lots of videos regarding Luger disassembly.
Some old gun oils would dry hard like that, it has been said that old WE-40 would do that.
Please continue to exercise patience.
dju

You could also try soaking in Kroil oil.

Well, nothing is keeping that (rear) toggle pin in place, other than crud. So with a proper punch and some well aimed blows, it should pop right out.

Try removing it with the toggle all the way opened. When the toggle is closed, it can create some pressure on the pin, making it harder to remove it.

From personal experience, I can guarantee you the old WD-40 will turn to glue!!! I had it happen and it took a rubber hammer and a few foul words to get a Ruger 44Mag carbine apart.....never again!!

Be careful with exactly which video you watch! Not too long ago, someone posted a link to a video of a couple of clowns who were persuading a rusted P.08 to come apart. Techniques such as pounding on the nose of the live round in the chamber with a dowel to move the breech block back, and throwing said live round into their wood stove after it was extracted, well, let's say we were kinda shocked/horrified by watching this one.

There was also an article in American Rifleman a year or so ago with [coff, coff] 'misleading' field stripping information... :rolleyes:

I saw that article in American Rifleman, and "called their hand on it". I never heard a word back from them as to their mis-information to their readers.

I let it soak for another day and it toggle pin came out and I ended up getting it completely apart. I cleaned it all up, oiled it and put it all back together. I dry fired it a couple times and it clicked like it should. Probably will never shoot it though, don't want to risk damage since all the numbers match minus the 2 mags. thanks again for everyone's help! It's G Dated low serial number so I am assuming it's a 1935.

Congratulations, and it soulds like your patience was rewarded.
dju