Help a Member with an inherited Luger
 

I'm posting this for another Forum Member, who needs a little assist with posting pictures and stuff.. Anyway - here is his note:

And the photo he attached to his e-mail..

Thanks for any input - and I'll direct this fine gentleman to this thread...

My Best Always,

John D.

Thanks for your help posting John! I was told this gun was a war trophy from WW1.....

Welcome to the forum sir.
At first glance it appeared to be an alphabet commercial carbine with stock. But there is no strawing. And it appears the sideplate is numbered in military fashion.
I woudnt think it was an ww1 artillery model with a .30 luger barrel but this may be something odd.
Can you list the serial number with the prefix letter underneath the numbers?

2762 with what looks like an r under the number

one more thing is there a chamber date on the top near the barrel?
The serial falls in the alphabet commercial range.produced 1920-29

I'm hoping to figure out the year it was made and the model of this gun.... Along with an idea of what it's worth is..... Thanks for any help you can give!

No date at all ...

Side plate and various other parts are all marked 62....

wow I dont know what it is now honestly. I thought it was a commercial but now Im not sure.

It's illegal with that stock. It's NOT an Artillery and it's NOT a carbine. It's simply a long barrel.

What IS the length of the barrel?

You need much better photo's of the stock, in better light and some detail.

Barrel length is 12"

Mitch..OK You have to seperate the stock out if you don't want to create any trouble for yourself and the buyer. This stock can only be placed on an 8 inch Artillery per the ATF. I think the barrel length would have to be 16 inch to qualify as a legal gun with the stock. As it is now..with the stock it would be a short barreled rifle and worth about 10 years of Federal supervised incarceration.

There are not any good useable shots of it on your link to give any opinion as to originality, condition and thusly..value.

Are there any markings on the wood or metal stock iron? A serial number?

No numbers on the stock.... Thanks for the advice!

Mitch..I have closely looked at all your photo's and there is no clear photo of the butt of the pistol..I cannot see clear evidence of any stock lug? Is there a stock lug on this pistol and will the stock attach?

Yes there is a lug and the stock attaches snugly!

OK..Interesting pistol. I suspect the barrel was put on perhaps at the request of Pacific Arms in the 1920's. You could order whatever configuration you wanted. This has an Artillery type rear sight. Are there ANY markings on the pistol or stock like GERMANY? Crown N? Any marks on the right receiver?
Is there a notch below the rear leaf of the 800 meter leaf sight on the barrel & receiver?

Germany stamped only on the bottom of the barrel, no other bench marks on the right side of reciever. Not sure where I'm looking for a notch under the sights...

Germany on the barrel make sense. There should be some marks on the pistol..Other than the serials.
Are there any serial numbers on the ladder sight? 2 digits?

I was told this gun was a war trophy from WW1....Whoever told you this is mistaken. It cannot have been a war trophy. Germany under the barrel tells us it was imported into the USA likely sometime in the 20's-30's
No military markings, .30 Luger caliber or date over the chamber tell us it was not a Military pistol.
Pretty simply we know what it is not, it is not now nor has it ever been a Military pistol.

The serial number's are they all exposed or somewhat hidden?

If you do not see an obvious notch under the rear of the ladder sight at the rear of the barrel..right where the barrel and receiver join together on the top..then it is not there. If it is not there the pistol was not properly fitted for the 800 meter sight. The notch is there to allow the rear leaf of the ladder sight to bottom out. Otherwise it will rest on the top of the receiver.

No Numbers on the ladder sights. No other marks on the pistol other than the serial number 2762 r and the number 62 on the smaller parts... Thanks for all your help!

the serial number 2762 r and the number 62 on the smaller parts

Are these numbers on the outward face of the part (Military style) or underneath..out of obvious view? (Commercial style)

The barrel is flattend at the top where it meets the reciever and the top of the sight sits flush with it when set all the way down. The serials on the parts, are all exposed except one which is partially hidden when the breech is closed, on the left side....

2762 r is on the outward face, just below the barrel...

The parts marked 62 are all very obvious!

2762 r is on the outward face, just below the barrel...

Is there a serial number on the underside of the barrel near the 2762 r is on the outward face, just below the barrel...?

No number on the barrel, 2762 r directly below the barrel on reciever just above the trigger guard.

No proofs at all on the gun...

Well..Not much else to say about it. There has to be a Crown N or other Nitro proof on the pistol somewhere. Side of the breechblock usually. It was a German requirement. Taking the pistol apart might let you look it over a little more closely.

Take the rust off the magazine.

The stock is an enigma without either better photo's or more detail. It can't even be evaluated as it is.
The pistol either actually. More information and or better photo's are necessary but from what I see..The pistol is likely $7-800 as a shooter.
The stock might be $200 unless something else about it comes to light. Really need to see the attaching iron to wood fit..Closeup of the strap slots etc. It could be an original period stock..not desirable as a Military serialed Crown S proofed stock.
Again, I would put some distance between the two of these. Sell the stock to someone. Forget about keeping them together. Might not bump into trouble but it's there..waiting..

Will post more photos of both the stock and gun tomorrow. Thanks for all of your help, it is greatly appreciated!

lugerskewl, your postings disappear?

I would think a 12 inch barrel luger is worth $900-$1300?

I would imagine it would be a very fun gun to shoot, looking for anything in trade? :)

The artillery stock is legal to be sold at the same time, I own an artillery, as do others and could be bought the same time or separately. What is interesting is that in the late 1920's or 1930's when this was made, it was perfectly legal to sell these together. Although probably made in 1929/1930 time frame for the frame, you could buy long barrels in the 50's and 60's and installed and sent to you; so many times it is hard to figure out when the barrel was installed without some acceptance / proof markings.

Ed

I would say the suffix is a 'c' ....

My guess is that it is is a luger that was modified after WW1 for the commercial market, much more common than we usually think.

You can also submit the combination of pistol and stock to the ATF and ask for a ruling to have it placed on the "Curios and Relics" list. You will need documentation that these pistols were commonly sold by Pacific Arms and others in the 1920s-1930s. Once one pistol is accepted, then all others should be extempt as well. The main challenge is that I am not aware that Pacific Arms marked their work in any way.

Mitch et al, Your barrel looks like it is more than 12" to me. If over 16", your stock would be OK. According to some old catalogs that I've seen, both Stoeger & Pacific Arms Corp, would add new long barrels in either 9 or 765mmP, in lengths from 8" to 24" with the tangent rear sight, to your luger during the 1920 to 1930 period. As far as I know, none of this type, except the 8" LPO8 and 12" Carbine with forestock, were ever assembled at DWM in Germany. TH

New set of photos on the way...

http://s1076.beta.photobucket.com/us...dyman/library/
I tore the gun down and found the #4 stamped on the bottom lug on the barrel.
There were other stampings under the grips and inside the breach, all of which can be seen in the photos.
Also added photos of fit and finish on the stock....
Thanks for all your help!
Mitch Buschbacher

Mitch, The stock looks period. I suspect it was a Military stock surplussed after the war, never military accepted. Sold into the USA during the 20's-30's. Quite probably with the pistol. Regardless..they HAVE to be seperated now.
I would want to buy the stock for $350 and if it were mine I would be asking $450-500.
The pistol has not changed..It is what it is.

The main challenge is that I am not aware that Pacific Arms marked their work in any way. The only Pacific Arms markings I have been able to observe was on a Pacific Arms Carbine I bought once many years ago. Under the foregrip were some Pacific Arms markings..code I think but certainly translateable to Pacific Arms.

You can also submit the combination of pistol and stock to the ATF and ask for a ruling to have it placed on the "Curios and Relics" list Man..I sure wouldn't jump into that hornets nest given the current attitude of this administration. Better to sell them seperate if selling is your intent. Don't touch the TarBaby IMO.

Thanks for your input Jerry, I will consider your offer, Have a gun show here in town on Saturday and will be showing the gun and stock there first....

Mitch..Just do me a favor Brother..DON"T have both of these items in your possesion out in public. I ain't kidding ya when I say it could cost you. All it takes is some overzealus agent with nothing better to do...Generally I am not an alarmist.. There are PLENTY of agents at gun shows.. NOTHING illegal about either of these in seperation..together.. this is a lethal combination. Even if you didn't go to jail..defending yourself would cost what these are worth many times over. AND the pistol and stock would be siezed..confiscated..destroyed.

It alarms me when I hear you say this. Have a gun show here in town on Saturday and will be showing the gun and stock there first. It makes me wonder if you have been reading what I have been writing about the penalties for possesion of a short barreled rifle. You DON"T even have to have the stock attached to be in violation. Stock in your left hand and pistol in your right hand is enough.

Plan on having my son take the stock. Thanks again for the concern! It is greatly appreciated!

Mitch..OK! Sounds good.