Borchardt C/93 Modelgun
 

Two Japanese modelgun manufacturers are producing Borchartd C/93 models...Hartford and CAW...

That is the good news...The bad news is they do not sell or ship overseas... :crying:

First manufacturer is Hartford -

http://www.hartford.co.jp/borchardt/index.htm

http://www.hartford.co.jp/borchardt/...hardt_cg01.jpg

Price (in Japan) is ~$428 USD...(gun only)...

The second manufacturer is CAW -

http://www.caw.co.jp/caw/borchardt/index.html

http://www.caw.co.jp/caw/borchardt/point.html

http://www.caw.co.jp/caw/borchardt/m...rdt_r3749b.jpg

http://www.caw.co.jp/caw/borchardt/m...hardt_p202.jpg

Price (in Japan) is ~$401 USD...

A lot of dough for a plastic model... :(

...Or a good price for a 3D CAD model... :rolleyes:

That is a lot of dough for a plastic model, but they do look good in the photos!!

Well, I never thought I would see a repro Borchardt.
Yes, it is expensive, but it would be fun to have one without having buyers remorse for spend 20,000 for the privilege of handling an original one.

These models are made up of cast, molded and machined parts. They are not just junk. You would be hard pressed to tell them from a mint original at 2 feet distance.

Most disassemble the same as the originals. Some fire PFC [plug firing cap] cartridges which resemble 'real' cartridges. I don't know if either of these do as I don't read Japanese and these two have only been released this year (possibly not yet in circulation). Haven't seen any reviews, and only one announcement on modelgun forum. I'm also not familiar with either manufacturer, although the pics on the CAW site are somewhat amusing; they did one in white plastic and one in black, and intermixed the parts, making some strange views... :p

I have corresponded with one manufacturer/distributor and found out they do a 'run' of each model they make each year, and then re-tool and move on to the next model. QC, packaging, manuals etc are all done at once and the models are warehoused until ordered. So if they only make 250 C/93's this year and they sell out fast, you have to wait a year (or whatever their cycle is) to order one. I have a backorder on a similar modelgun which should be in production right now and should ship at the end of the month (regrettably, not the C/93). :(

Hartford has a video on YouTube of their modelgun being cycled...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=ep-6X0R1Zbc

CAW has a couple of videos as well...In fact, they seem to be showing that 'real' C/93 parts interchange with their modelgun...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mttQnP2jqI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfmZpfK7_Hc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YApleUuZgM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BluWYC3zGU

If that C93 is made of metal and was offered in the USA, I might be hard pressed to not purchase one....just because!!

A modelgun forum member emailed me that although the manufacturers do not sell/ship overseas, some modelshops do...

I am trying to find out more...I will definitely try to get one... :thumbup:

Hope you succeed. If the model is as good as the photos indicate, I would be interested in purchasing one. It would save wear and tear on my original for demonstration purposes plus it is a really snarky play toy (albeit expensive :)).

If you are interested in emailing the modelgun enthusiast about possible purchase, shoot me an email/PM. I'm told there is one Hartford [HWS] C/93 modelgun left in his favorite modelshop. :)

It worth the money. Putting the model gun aside, I guess a well made full size repro Borchardt stock probably can sell a couple of hundred dollars in the U.S. Is the stock part of the package?

It is an option, or can be ordered/bought with case, cartridges, rod, etc as a package, for extra. Prices I posted were conversion of Yen for pistol only, if bought in Japan.

Here's the full set...

Borchardt - dummy cartridge model gun formula [full set] 99,750 yen including tax = $1039 :eek:

Is that outrageous or what??? That's, like, 1/25th of what a real set went for...ten years ago... :rolleyes:

I would have to pass on the complete set, but it is neat looking and would be quite a conversation piece.

I am too...But I am committed to just the modelgun...The CAW hasn't been released yet...

Here is excerpt from members PM to me...

richie,

Hi,
Let me explain about the models. HWS (Hartford) start selling Borchardt last year. This is constructed mainly by heavy weighted plastic with few zinc parts...

The cost of this gun is JPY37,800 comes with a gun case. Wooden shoulder stock or holster are options, it will not comes with the gun...

Another option is, CAW (Craft Apple Works). They are also planning to sell Borchardt sometime soon. I think the price will surpass JPY40,000. But in general terms, CAW has better quality over HWS. CAW scale the gun to the point they can interchange some parts with real gun. If I were you, I will wait CAW even I pay extra money. At this point, I do not know if CAW comes with a gun case like the one in HWS or not.

So in 2nd pic in my post above this [#11], the HWS comes with the case shown...

Neat idea but I would rather put the money towards another Luger purchase.

I watched the CAW clips...I'm impressed.

There was no mention of how the CAW pistol is constructed......if plastic or metal. Any idea of construction?

CAW Borchardt Pistole
Type: Dummy model gun cart
Length: 351.8 mm
Height gun: 189.9 mm
Weight: ----- G
Caliber: 7.65x25 Borchardt
Number of Capacity: From 8
Actuation: Toggle action
Material: Heavy weight, zinc alloy, other
Price: ¥ 42,000.
All the manufacturers suggested retail price is the list price of the Share (excluding tax).

I think the 'heavy weight' refers to the kind of plastic [ABS]...

Who wouldn't want one of these??? :D

http://www.caw.co.jp/caw/borchardt/m...rdt_r2516b.jpg

As near as Google can translate, the white parts are the first mold/prototype and the dark (and wood) parts are actual Borchardt...Demonstrating how close the parts are to real size/shape...

Here's the Zinc parts...

http://www.caw.co.jp/caw/borchardt/m...hardt_p002.jpg

And the 'heavy weight' grip frame...

http://www.caw.co.jp/caw/borchardt/m...hardt_p012.jpg

I'm also reading that CAW will -

"Including stock, we will release the content of the set of all sequentially.
I want to sell a full set from the beginning and wham, I will not hand you will surely come out, better to put the soul went point by point that I made ​​in order because it is good."

http://www.caw.co.jp/caw/borchardt/m...rdt_r8446b.jpg

Appears/sounds like the frame, barrel/receiver and breech bolt are "heavy weight" (presumably plastic) and the remainder of the parts are metal. It will be interesting to see one of these up close some day.

If you look closely at the Zinc parts pic, the entire toggle train is Zinc...And the trigger, spring box, 'sideplate', safety, sear, mag release, and what appears to be the rear portion of the receiver (where the spring box attaches)...I think... :confused:

Ron, you can confirm what that is...It'd be like the real one... :)

My, but this is most interesting. I most likely should not be looking at these photos, but it definately has my attention.

I have received word that CAW C/93 is now available in Japan, at JPY42,000. Modelgun forum member sent me these two pics (they are his own just-purchased CAW C/93 modelgun) -

The photos look nice. I would love to be able to handle one and see fit and finish.

I am conversing with the owner/member of that C/93 as to what needs to be done to import one into the US; it seems there is some federal law that a replica modelgun must have the muzzle painted red...Doing that to a plastic modelgun in such a way as to be able to remove the paint without marring the finish of a rather expensive model is a problem... :mad:

Customs is also an unknown...Can they impound it??? Does it need to have import duty paid??? What would the duty be based on??? Receipt of sale or insured value???

I think it's a given that the dummy cartridges would need to be shipped separately; even though they are dummies, having them with the model is asking for trouble...

How to transfer funds??? Use whose currency converter to determine exchange rate???

Questions... :banghead:

Edit -

OK!!! A vender/modelgun forum member willing to ship overseas has been found; PayPal transfer has been completed; and the CAW C/93 is on the way!!! :thumbup:

We are shipping it in three parcels; top [cannon] assembly; lower [grip frame]; and dummy cartridges. We agreed that shipping it complete and with metallic cartridges [they are brass] was tempting fate. :rolleyes: The sender is also painting the muzzle red to comply with whatever that weird US law is...

The three are coming by air, shipper is EMS, whom I have never heard of, which begs the question: How does it get delivered here in US??? :confused:

Edit2 -

This is exciting! I love tracking incoming shipments! I'll update this as it changes! :D

Oooohhh...It's on US soil!!! :D

Edit3 -

First parcel arrived today [22 Mar]! Gripframe assembly + magazine!

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...s/insides2.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...gripframe1.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...gripframe2.jpg

Here's what I'm finding -

- Grips are wood, excellent checkering, with steel panels inlet into wood (to add weight?)
- Magazine is steel with pinned wood bottom
- Magazine has twin coil springs exactly like real C/93
- Trigger screw, mag/safety spring, ejector (?), grips screws, trianglular panels at rear, loop at rear, and shelf under rear of frame are all steel. Rest is (I assume) plastic/ABS.

I tried Tokarev 7.62 cartridges [real Fiocchi] in magazine; they fit and stack OK!

Quality is outstanding! Feels heavy (due to steel inserts I imagine).

Mailer/modelgun forum member packed it up carefully; parcel appeared unopened; no duty. Delivered by USPS Express Mail (separate from regular mail delivery).

From 20 Mar in Japan to 23 Mar my front door is fantastic!!!

Time/date difference between Japan & USA is confusing.

I downloaded & bought Gerard Henrotin's EBook on the Borchardt. I now know how to get it apart & back together. However, my printer does not print the whole page [width] from the EBook; does anyone know how to correct this??? I can't copy the pages (there's some block on this) and shrink them...

Edit4 - Second parcel is en route! It's in the US!!! :cheers:

Oh, be still my heart!!! :D The cannon assembly showed up today!!! :jumper:

Here's some pics...I haven't picked off the red paint yet...

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...icas/CAW_0.jpg

Size, compared with my 1900AE Luger -

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...icas/CAW_1.jpg

Other side view -

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...icas/CAW_2.jpg

...Here's some pics of the markings...

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...icas/CAW_3.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...icas/CAW_4.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...icas/CAW_5.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...icas/CAW_6.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...icas/CAW_7.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...icas/CAW_8.jpg

The CAW seems to be a direct copy of a Lowe's C/93 serial # 567...

Excellent attention to detail...I can even chamber a cartridge...But there is a ~6" steel plug in the barrel...Probably not a smart move to try shooting a real cartridge... :rolleyes:

The rollers on the rear toggle actually work...The toggle train has to be pulled back about an eighth of an inch before lifting up, the same as my 1900AE Luger...The toggle lock is real, and is separate & screwed into the grip frame like the 1900 Luger...The toggle catch is spring loaded, same as the 1900 Luger...

The recoil spring is real, and as you might expect, is a PITA to get hooked on the link...

The barrel seem to be separately cast from the receiver; but I can't tell if it is screwed in or pressed...Witness mark is nicely lined up... :)

Trying to find a suitable glass-topped display case for it...Needs to have at least 2" inside depth...

If anyone is keeping a record of Borchardt C/93 pistols, I'm pretty sure Craft Apple Works in Japan has serial # 567...

I am very happy with this!!! I know I will never have a real Borchardt...But this is close enough!!! :thumbup:

...Now it's time for me to play with my toys... :bigbye:

Rich
Congrats on your new ersatz C/93!:rockon:
Is this a plug fire model gun? I notice you got the shells for it. Did you get the little percussion caps to operate it?
You gonna fire it? :cool:

I have a plug fire replica machine pistol of a Skorpion Vz61 made by a Japanese company called Hudson. Lots of fun to play with.:D

It interesting that real guns are basically banned from private ownership in Japan,but most of the replicas are almost indistinguishable from real ones!
Every time I visit one of the shooting ranges in Las Vegas,Japanese tourists are lined up to shoot and usually its machine guns! :burnout:

Bob

Bob

It's very cool. Is it heavy, what's the weight?

The cartridges are coming regular mail; take a while longer (the two parcels came Express Mail). I'm pretty sure the C/93 isn't offered in PFC; the breech wouldn't close (the detonator doesn't allow the PFC cartridges to go fully into the chamber). The cartridges do go into the dummy chamber. Box end attached; 'Dummy Model'. It's interesting that the box end is labeled 'Borchardt Pistole Ludwig Loewe'...CAW makes the Nambu T-14 in both early and late [Winter trigger guard] models; might indicate they are thinking of a DWM C/94 model as well as the Loewe C/93...

I don't have a scale; but with the all-Zinc toggle train + Zinc springbox + steel grip inserts + steel barrel plug I would say a couple pounds...

I gotta say, the more I fool with it, the more impressed with the design I am...I'm "assuming" from the YouTube videos showing the plastic modelgun parts interchanging with the real C/93 parts, that this is an accurate replica. For instance, the recoil spring is a two-leaf steel snail spring riveted together. The safety works only when the action is cocked (it won't go up with an uncocked action). The toggle lock works just like the 1900 Luger. The rear sight blade is detachable. (So is the front sight blade, but the front is pinned & the rear has two tiny screws).

Maybe one of our resident Luger collectors who owns a real Borchardt can comment... :rolleyes:

I just hope I don't fall off the pony and break this barrel off... :(

Thanks for posting the photos and info.......now this is exciting, at least to me!! Don't wear the finish off by fondling it!!

I had to field strip it to scrub the muzzle paint off, so here is a pic of the springbox with 2-leaf 'snail' spring in it...

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...springbox2.jpg

I don't have a 'real' spring to compare it with, so I don't know how close it is to original as far as thickness of leaves...

The cartridges came today; here's two pics of them...hard to get good pics, the auto-focus tracks all over the place... :mad:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...artridges2.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...artridges1.jpg

Kind of amusing; the fake primers have the "U" on them...I have them displayed with actual 7.62 Tokarev cartridges [Fiocchi], dimensionally the same as 7.65 Borchardt (for all practical purposes)...The CAW dummy cartridges are heavier; I wonder if they are solid brass???

Edit1: A couple of natural light pics with paint removed...