New DWM 1911 Luger
 

I am going to be picking this one up and will post details.

What are the shooting prospects for the gun.

Mechanically it worked fine at the store.

Also any caution on ammunition if it should be or is safe to shoot.

First out will be store bought 115 gr RN I think I was given.

We'd need few details before we can adequately outline the ramifications of shooting an early dated Luger, but generally 115 FMJ is fine, No +P, etc.
Use a modern magazine, not wood bottom.
Now, is the gun all-matching, original, etc? Also does it have a hold-open?
Welcome aboard!
dju

Thank you.

I have still to finish paying for it and pick it up, probably today once we figure out what house account the money comes out of (cash deal).

Startled bought it. Something I always wanted but never came across and I know very little about them.

It comes with an original magazine and holster

I was casually looking at a 22 Erma? and the owner brought out the DMW and said he wanted it to go to a good home and not someone who would mess with it (little hole in the wall gun shop, serious collector of all sorts and we had been disusing collector 1903s and 1917 Enfields).

He offered to trade off some of the costs and I have two hard to move pistols that came to mind, so I needed to get on with xmas stuff and got back this week.

About that time a local Luger collector came in, he went over the gun, confimred all matching and the straw (?) color was correct and had not been re- finished.

Upshot was he was Lugered up but recommended it at the price. I got a fair deal for the two pistols price wise (assuming someone knew the pistols like the shopw owner did)

I will post more and see if I can figure out how to post pictures when I get it as I will want a value estimate.

Still nervous and in a bit of shock.

Well be ready for another shock: Most of us will recommend against firing it simply on the basis that the value will plummet if you break a numbered part shooting it. And it does happen, particularly on the older guns. Some of us do it anyway, others go out and buy another mismatched or refinished Luger for the range.
Anyway, we'll await photos.
dju

Thank you. Not so much a shock, my brother and I have had that discussion about a collector 1903 (we like to shoot what we collect but we are on the lower tiers of it so can do so for all but the one he has)

I am on the fence and the views and reasons for not shooting it are much appreciated.

I approach it with caution, no need to shoot it until I can get both some idea of the value and the risks.

Breaking it did occur to me but a numbered part loss is permanent and had not got that far (none of what we shoot has breakable parts that have an ID, what breaks can be replaced with no loss of value.

I put that loss of a number part in the pretty persuasive column.

Add to this discussion that the 1911 military issued DWM pistols are more rare. If it is truly collectable, it would be very sad (from both historical and financial points of view) to fire it and damage it in any way.

Really... if you want a Luger to shoot, get a mismatched one, or one with finish conditions.

And yes... they do regularly get damaged. Most recent, both a Luger and P.38 that "Blew up" in one range trip...

Marc

I have to apologize, I was told DMW but now I have to ask for sure what it is.

ID on the front of the grip says

AM XIII 3.22 Serial is 928X

All parts number match per previous but no mfg on top of the toggle.

The reported 1911 DWM serial range is 4089b-166f
welcome to the forum

Thank you, call me confused but does that make it a DMW or some other mfg?

I would say a different mfg. but Im no expert

No mfg. on the top of the toggle confuses me too. Most likely a replacement part I'm guessing.
dju

You will need to post pictures taken with sharp focus and showing external markings clearly for me to be of much help...

Now that they are posted, I can see that it is a DWM marked toggle, but the details are not visible.

Take the pictures outdoors in indirect light without the flash. Use a tripod, and the closeup setting on the camera. Use the self timer to eliminate camera shake.

Marc

If these come across best I can do and my first pictures so I hope not messed up.

It came wiht one new style magainze, one with the base broken off but the wood bit still in there.

Holster says JR 127 with a date of 1915 on it JMECK? on it and what looks like ULM

Attachment 30940
Attachment 30939
Attachment 30941
Attachment 30942
Attachment 30943
Attachment 30944
Attachment 30945

Value and does it go back for discussion with the seller with the toggle being replacement?

Hi, The plastic base magazine is after market. The wood one can be repaired. G.T. on this forum does this work, and is world class.

The left grip has the "million dollar chip" up by the safety lever. That can also be repaired. Hugh Clark is the expert on that.

Marc

Couple of more and will get the holster shortly

Attachment 30948

Attachment 30947

Attachment 30946

Hi Greg, Your gun looks very nice to me, if all the numbers match you have yourself quite a find. The finish looks original and these old guns are seldom found with their original magazines. The unit mark on the grip strap is both rare and desirable, it stands for Armeekorps XIII, Artillerei-Munitionskolonne.
Regards, Norm

Thank you for clearing up the front strap information and repair.

Good to know the clip and grip can be fixed (I think the right panel is missing a tank as it moves a bit).

What I am not seeing is the numbers on all the toggle parts (and I am not up to speed on correct terminology). Back part with the knob has the 8X. Part with the crest I don't see a number nor the very forward part.

Are those two hidden?

And here are the holster pictures

Attachment 30953

Attachment 30952

Attachment 30951

And I am impressed how easily the site loads up the photos. Bit of playing and waiting for my slow modem and it works great.

And value of the gun by itself and the holster and is there any combined value greater than the sum of the two?

I live in Alaska so daylight is pretty scarce right now! (grin). Not as bad as further North though.

Do you still need better pictures? And any area more specific?

Is the DMW in what I am taking for a crest? Phew, seriously stylized if that's right.

The very front part of the toggle that holds the firing pin has what looks like a crest on it, closest I can come is it looks like a Saguaro Cactus.

I do have the tripod and can see what kind of daylight we get tomorrow though forecast is a bit iffy with clouds possible.

I did get adventurous as I have a good site that show tear-down and the front part has the 8X number as well.

Barrel looks awful and will see after I clean it.

Hi Greg, 1911 DWMs were numbered commercial style, with concealed serial numbers. The number on the breech block (the front element of the three piece toggle train) is on it's left side. The middle toggle link (the part with the DWM logo) is numbered underneath in a recess. To find these numbers you will need to field strip the gun.
Regards, Norm

Thank you.

Phew, went ahead and used the following link (I like the visuals on it). As you indicated they are there.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/pistolp0...isassembly.pdf

All the numbers match. The only part I can't see is the ejector (will deffer on until someone confirms how it comes out and not me guessing and if it does have a number.

So it appears to be 100% matched numbers

Civilian 1911 DMW then re-issued in WWII to military and marked with the 13th Corp?

It is one earlier Luger of the XIII Army Corps which was not added with the hold open. It seems that only parts of the Lugers of the Württemberg Army Corps got the hold open. I tried to fix this since years. Thanks for sharing!
Our holster with the 127 infantry regiment unit mark was also part of the XIII. Army Corps and nothing speaks against the possibility that Luger and holster were together since 1915.
Holster marker was J.M. ECKART in ULM who made most holsters for the XIII. Army Corps.

Klaus,

You are welcome for the sharing though that goes both ways.

Everyone is great with the information.

Was the 13th Corp both a WWII and WWI organization? I found some references to WWII.

Hi,

Your pistol definitely has an ejector. It's visible on the right side of the receiver.

Are you talking about the lack of a hold open (visible inside on the top of the frame next to the magazine well)? Klaus addressed that above.

The unit marking was a WW-I and Weimar era (only) practice. Not done in WW-II.

Your pistol was never a commercial. It was military proofed. Closeups of these marks would be helpful. Front right of the receiver. Very early on, the parts number marking was done in the commercial style until the Germans standardized it.

As to shooting this pistol, I personally would never do it. You have a collectable pistol that is a rare and representative part of history. Breaking it would be tragic.

In the same light, be very conservative when cleaning it.

Never store it inside the holster. This leads to corrosion and finish damage.

I keep mine in silicone impregnated socks or "Bore Store" pouches. Helps repel moisture.

I think the combination with the holster adds to value of a historic rig.

Definitely consider having Gerald restore the magazine and Hugh look after your grip.

Other than that, just keep it properly lubricated and safely in storage so that it can be shared with future generations.

Marc

Marc,

Sorry for the confusion, its been quite a roller coaster ride emotionally. I don't often go with gut feeling so buying this one without in depth research was unsettling and I am not being very lucid about how I am presenting things.

The question on the ejector was if its a numbered item and if its worth getting out to fine out? I don't want to screw it up of course. So leaving that alone.

If I can get the light I will try to get the proof pictures today. My wife has a better close up feature on her camera and that should help. I do see them ok but pretty faint and not sure how they will photograph.

Got it on the WWI ID.

The good news about Alaska is we have low humidity and it seems to have done fine in the holster but will separate them now.

Gerald and Hugh are on the list but am going to take a bit of time to settle out. Nervous about loosing things in shipping. I know I can insure it and FedEx it, but obviously can't replace the grips. Clip has no id numbers on it so assume that can be replaced in worst case. Once I settle down I will be ok.

I know most people would probably chuckle at what I have into this, but for us its a significant amount and to have made a mistake would be hard to deal with.

Shooting it is off the table for now and probably permanently the way my mind is settling out on that subject.

The only planned cleaning will be the barrel. Hoppes 9 to clean it ? Light gun oil and leave it at that?

The rest looks like its fine as is.

And again thank you. All the information and advice I can get is huge help in dealing this correctly.

Bad overcast and wind let alone snow and winter so these are the best I can do for now.

Attachment 30958

I can get more pictures with outside light at some point but it will be a month or so before we have light that is not at a 20 degree angle

Your EJECTOR (on right side of the receiver) will not be numbered. But the EXTRACTOR (in the breech block) should have the last 2 digits of the serial marked internally. TH

You don't need to wait a month to take photos. Just experiment with indoor light, you will find something that works. That's the beauty of digital photography. Shoot it, check it, dump it.
Based on that one right side shot I do want more photos.
dju

I can do that, just an overall coverage or specific areas?

And does that photo get the proof markings clearly enough? That is max for close even with the macro setting.

I cleaned the barrel yesterday. Pretty stunning on how clean it came and with not much work. I do not see any copper fouling at all. Lands may be somewhat worn but not familiar enough with that subject to know for sure. They are clear for sure.

YHow hard is that to get out? Looks like a small pin to drift over but don't want to assume

It does say "Geladen" on the side when you lift it up.

My advise, for what it is worth, assume that the extractor matches (almost a certainty) and don't mess with it.

Ron, Shame on you! Discouraging a Luger owner from knocking every pin out of the lady like that!

It's actually one of the easiest pins to take out. The extractor is held in by this pin..a little hook on the bottom and the pin slides thru it to capture the extractor. I recently took apart a very beautiful Krieghoff to authenticate it for matching numbers and with a small diameter brass rod it's pin just pushed out with a slight hand pressure. I was fascinated by the craftsmanship of the Krieghoff pin even..so beautifully made..rounded over so nicely on one end. The Germans in this period of gun making were true artists.

At any rate it's stupidly simple and if you have any eye hand coordination skills at all just do it. The spring behind the extractor is under some pressure but not enough to launch parts. Just sort of pushes into place, line it up and slip the pin back together. I always take pins out of a Luger from right to left unless it is obvious they have been peened over or some other indicator like a flat and a round end..push on the flat end. .

Or if you have no eye hand coordination skills Take Ron's not that bad advice! and don't mess with it. On my Friends Krieghoff it was an absolute necessity for authentication.

I have to respectfully disagree with this statement. I was installing a "new" extractor with a new extractor spring to a breachblock that I purchased last week. I was having a bit of problem since the new extractor spring is a little longer until it takes it's set, and it is difficult to get the pin in correctly. I have done this procedure many times before without any drama. Anyway, the extractor popped out, and at least I found it, but the new extractor spring is at a place unknown to mankind. I heard where I though it landed, but after extensive searching....I gave up. I would have been much more upset if I had lost the extractor also.

Richard..You are right of course..any spring under compression can squirt out and be lost.

I am a technician/mechanic and have launched parts with the best of them.

Will see how adventurous I am feeling. Towel to contain it should do ok, better at home than work where its harder to setup a soft trap.

Between pictures and a shooting session this weekend (range opens for the first time in a month and we are having warm weather) its probably going to be a bit. Have to see how the new to me Model of 1917 Remington does at the range (does not match even close to the Luger but mostly)

Proof marks on barrel under magnifying glass look like the

3, 2 and 4 symbols from this post

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=27872

Barrel has an 8,82 behind the serial number and just in front of the index mark

A bit off center and to the right on top of the barrel is the 4 proof sumbol again. again.

Yessir! For a real challenge, try field stripping one of the Erma Luger-wannabes! There is a trick involving the toggle to minimize the pressure, but still there's a chance you'll be on your hands and knees for a while. The soft "tent" around the work area would help quite a bit, I'd think. If a spring does escape, however, I've had success at finding springs and their guide rods post-launch with the use of a magnet. I recommend one of those right angle/setup magnets, the kind that's quite potent and has an on/off switch. The switch rotates magnets within the body; when they are lined up to "off", they cancel each other out and most ferrous material stuck to it just drops off.

I know what you are saying concerning the Erma Lugers, as I own two of them. My hands just don't work as good as they once did(along with everything else!!) and small pins and small springs vanish into thin air, I guess. I never purchase just one extractor spring, as I know two or three would be much smarter given my "talent".

Here are more pictures with macro and better light

Attachment 31028

Attachment 31029

Attachment 31030

Attachment 31031

And a few more

Attachment 31032

Attachment 31033

Attachment 31034

Klaus,

I don't know if it came across right, but thank you very much for the information. Had no idea and it all tracks well.

Expected just a holster with the gun and to have that connection seems amazing.

Really puts it in perspective.