The antigun $#&% has hit the fan
 

Went into work today, and as a gun owner I got hammered about it...A petition is already circulating at the workplace to be sent to all State and Fed reps for an all out ban on the types of weapons found at the scene in CT

yes, its a shame

Everyone should do their best to keep this from spreading

I personally believe (although I hate it), is that there will have to be compromises

But lets be careful and keep politics to a minimum

Funny how every time there is a compromise, we lose.

All I could do was say that like everybody else I was sick over the event, and then took out my car keys and showed them the key to my gun vault explaining it stays with me all the time....

Remember Scotland, there was very little compromise...

This is how we are portrait!!!

On the money! - ever notice in this PC world how nobody can say a word about anybody EXCEPT gun owning males are free to be bashed by all!

and Australia.

Well, I purchased my first pistol - 38 caliber when I was 15. No parents, no background check. Put it in the holster that was tossed in and fixed it to the basket on my bike and pedaled home.

Cost me $15 which was a big amount back then.

Since then there have been compromises and I could not do it today.


Perhaps there will be no compromises this time. Who knows.

Let the people at work know that prohibition has never worked in our society in the USA.

It doesn't matter what is prohibited (alcohol; drugs; prostitution....) behavior isn't altered and a criminal underclass is created.

These "experiments" take a long time to work through, and in the meantime a large number of people get hurt.

The only thing that can stop a violent criminal is immediate overwhelming counter-force.

The problem isn't the tool used (a knife was used in China Friday to attack a larger number of school children).

See this for more of the carnage over there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_...2%80%932011%29

Look at the Oregon mall shootings. A concealed carry permit holder stopped it without firing a shot. When the criminal saw him the next shot was the criminal's suicide. The CCH permit holder saved many lives...

Marc

With all respect - in the China incident the parents are visting their children tonight in the hospital - not burying them...

The lethality of a knife and a firearm are the same if used with intent and skill.

While a firearm can be more "remote" in it's lethality, it can still be a deadly tool. In exercises I participated in, it only took about 2 seconds to cover the closing distance with a knife that most firearm attacks take place in.

So... the lethality of the tool in both cases is more linked to the intent and skill of the criminal.

I really doubt prohibiting either tools will solve the problem. Look at the rest of the knife attacks and the lethality chronicled on the Wikipedia page...

Marc

I dont want to be stuck with butter knives and sling shots!!

Unfortunately as gun owners we are in the situation where in this case of 20 dead children one bad apple has spoiled the whole bunch in the eyes of the world...Anyway looks like I was right with one of my comments last week, turns out the shooters mother was in fact obsessed with this world ending this week..

I heard different on a different media channel. I heard them say, she didn't trust the government and was worried about the take over. The media has been wrong from the beginning and their crediability is forever in the crapper when it comes to reporting truths....IMO. One thing for sure, I don't believe anything coming from this regime we have now with all the coverups about F&F and now Madame Secretary has a headwound which will impair her memory about Benghazi which will bring back her " I don't remember" during the Whitewater scandle. An ever revolving coverup about just about everything..........sad, real sad.

One thing for sure, she didn't secure her firearms.

I can't stop feeling horrible for the children, families, and town. They've gone through soo much s#!7 this last week, beyond the living bottomless pit-of-hell-red-nightmare, they're also dealing with media sitting on top of them this whole time. Since this went down - every major media outlet has taken this story and painted it's own picture - False facts, accusations, drawing their own conclusions, and just straight reporting rumor as fact. Only to come back hours and days later - and hide it with a new headline. This is when you realize that money is more important than journalistic integrity. Heck, they were reporting the wrong name most of Friday, then CNN went and stole his facebook pic and ran it on TV and on the website. They're jerking anyone they can off the street with connections and trying to pull interviews with the victims and families - It's outrageous.

We live in this country where most of our media is handled by like what, 5 or 6 companies? And, they're all just prodding around, spewing rumor, stumbling on themselves and showing zero tact or integrity. The way they handle these things reminds me of burning ants under a magnifying glass. They'll go in and exhaust this for months to come, drill the victims, then they'll make them re-live it yearly with a prime time special for the next decade - minimum. All the while, slipping their own agenda into the mix. How mad can I get though - I fed the beast by watching some of it Friday evening - the rest I've got in aggregate from people at work who have to forward every update around like they're reporting it.

Sorry about the rant, I hope I didn't derail this too much.

I don't know how far this is going to go with gun control, but I agree we'll be compromising. It's also going to be non-stop anti-gun sentiment as far as the media goes for the next few months. We have both sides pushing for stricter control. For the law-abiding gun enthusiast, we're going to see SHARP rises in price and shortages - I think that's already begun from what I've heard.

During your 2 second flying leap a shooter paying attention could plug you a number of times .
Think I'd want a refund from that school.

How many of these cretins would be lining up to ban automobiles if some drunk plowed through a school-yard and killed 20 kids?

This is a tradegy which is being shamefully used by both extremes for political points.

The flood gates have opened!!!

To use the car analogy:

They will be banning 'blue cars', because a 'blue car' was used in the assault.

Gun Bans..??
 

I watched the news yesterday...and they compared the shootings with one that took place in Britain approximately 10 years ago....and a large number of children were shot there as well.......now it appears that the whole country of Britain is in an uproar over it.....and the newscast made the statement that a number of legislators are considering passing a bill to outlaw.... all private ownership of firearms........if you think this couldnt be done.....look what happened in Australia......I remember an NRA special one Sunday......showing the cutting up of hundreds and hundreds of pistols...rifles...shotguns.....cut them in half with a giant commercial cutter.........so it can happen........all these folks rushing out to buy anything now before any "ban" comes in.......think about it......they have your name...address....and what you bought......so whats the use..?......oh well.......its just all scary.......and going back in time to the Lubys restaurant shooting in Texas so many years ago........you think what would have happened if only one of the people had a concealed permit...and could have stopped it....................God Bless the Little Children......Hans Fischer

The analogy I usually use is: Where was the debate about bathtub types, restricting the amount of water they can hold, how quickly they can be filled etc. after Andrea Yates killed her children? Everybody agreed that the cause of this tragedy was mental illness, but what if she had used an assault rifle?

I think you missed an 'L' there... ;)

It could be considered food for the gun grabbers.

The armed neighbor response idea does bring up an interesting point - I guess it would depend on the location of the school. Many of the neighbors of the school where the shooting occured last week who were interviewed remarked they had heard the gunfire, but as the area was heavily wooded simply ignored it as hunters in the woods. I myself live on a coastal bay, where the duck and goose shooters have been banging away since October, so multiple gunshots would have been ignored by me as well.

I was really surprised to read this report....it appears that mental illness and certain medications are related to many of these tragedies....

http://ssristories.com/index.php?p=school

Now Thats Worth Reading !!!!!!!!

I read a similar 'report' and take it with a grain of salt.

Of course, mental health is always so private, that even very sick folks can still buy guns by lying; this is a 'loophole' that I really hope gets closed / but it must be done correctly or it can be used horribly.

Or cars with "fully automatic" transmissions. :banghead:

Gunny John

My prediction. Regardless of trying to restrict ownership of certain weapons, it will result I a new TAX for those who currently have them. Of course that will solve the problem.:mad:

NRA had a constructive news conference this morning that was interrupted by a protester with a sign: "NRA Stop Killing Our Children".

NRA News Conference Transcript:

http://home.nra.org/pdf/Transcript_PDF.pdf

Blames Gun Free Schools Zones Act for attracting attacks.

Compares guarding money, celebrities, politicians and the president. "Gun" is not a bad thing in these contexts.

Calls for armed guards at all schools immediately. Each school needs their own solution. Obama eliminated funding for school security in budgets.

"National Schools Shield Emergency Response Program" to protect our children immediately; to be created by NRA. NRA will fund this program.

Properly trained armed good guys are the solution.

Former US Congressman (Arkansas) Asa Hutchinson. Former head of DEA to lead NRA effort. Lead independent team of experts.

Model comprehensive security plan based on latest technical information. Template set of best practices for every school in America to tailor to their own needs.

Armed trained school security personnel only one aspect of solution. Also local volunteers serving in their own communities.

Build upon NRA education programs.

- - - - -

Ended at 11:30AM.

I watched the NRA speech. It makes a lot of sense to me, and they are starting a program to help keep this from happening again,.....rather than a bunch of politicians wringing their hands, and combing their hair so that they look good on camera. We all know that more gun laws won't solve the problem. Mental health is a very difficult problem to discover and handle, and our government would much prefer to NOT think about it, that way it will go away.

Banning all private ownership of firearms in this county would be impossible, not to mention political suicide. We are much bigger than Germany, England or Australia. Collecting 270 million guns already in private ownership is not politically or logistically practical, and I think too many of us would rather be called criminals than turn them in (in violation of the Constitution I might add). I do however think the administration could try to prevent future sales and purchases to unlicensed individuals.

The word they will seize on is REGULATED (as in "well regulated militia"). The govenment will claim they have the right to regulate gun ownership, even though it is an individual right. What no one will realize is that back in 1776, "regulated" meant "trained and disciplined". I don't hear anyone making this argument. If you substitute the word "trained" for "regulated, it makes perfect sense.

My predictions for 2013:
1. The "assault" rifle ban will be reinstated, without an expiration date.
2. Hi-cap mags will be permanently banned, I only pray the limit is not less than 10.
3. If we can hold them at this and no more ... everything will be fine.
4. The mass media buffoons will continue their Chicken Little gun control talk.


"More peple have been killed by Ted Kennedy's car than by my guns" .
Geo

Let's all try to remember that there are something like ten times more companies producing AR style rifles than there were in 1994. That makes for a very powerful lobbying group versus last time, with much more money to spend. There are MILLIONS of high cap magazines here in the US. There is no way these will be outright banned and almost anything that will be proposed will by necesity have a Grandfather Clause if it is to have a hope in hell of passing.
The NRA is adding an average of 8,000 more members per week than average and by the time This legislation is attempted cooler heads will have largely prevailed.
I'm not saying this is going to be easy, but the sky isn't falling quite yet.

I have the impression that when many of the uneducated/uninitiated speak of a semi-auto, they are confusing it with full auto. And it baffles me, the "assault" weapon concept, because I've read that the same basic rifle my dad used to hunt deer, a 30.06, (Remington 700 ADL) was used as a sniper rifle in Vietnam. I tend to agree with the NRA's idea that style or fashion has as much to do with the classification of a gun as an assault weapon as some of the salient characteristics. NY's laws pretty much mimic the 1994 ban, but do not expire. Some parts are unenforceable (pre-ban or unmarked mags), or, in the issue of the term "flash suppressor" being undefined in the former federal ban's regulations (consequently no definition as it applies in NY due to our state's following suit with the feds back then, the missing definition is duplicated in state statute.), will eventually undergo testing in the courts at some point.

The cosmetic differences as applied in the former ban were not rational, but I believe concocted on an emotional basis to soothe the activists. After all, nobody wants to be "assaulted" with any kind of firearm. And isn't the round used in Dad's Remington more destructive than any NATO format? I'd be happier if these seemingly inevitable regs made sense when they arrive.

David Parker

This is an interesting study:

http://www.sas.upenn.edu/jerrylee/re..._final2004.pdf

Federally funded, this followed up on a series of studies called for in the original law (which is title XI Firearms of this document:)

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...3hr3355enr.pdf

Try as they might to swizzle numbers in the study, they were unable to show any effectiveness in:

- Reducing crime
- Increasing the price of "Assault Weapons"

They did document an increase in the price of "Large Capacity Magazines) of about 40%.

They included the quaint idea that criminals actually bought their crime guns...

Finally concluding:

"The findings of the previous chapters suggest that it is premature to make definitive assessments of the ban’s impact on gun violence."

- and that is 10 years after enactment of the flawed ban.

They admitted that "Assault Weapons" contributed to a very small minority of crimes. 2% or so in most cases.

They also showed that gun crimes resulting in death didn't change a bit over the first 8 years of the ban.

"But this still begs the question of whether a 10-round limit on magazine capacity will affect the outcomes of enough gun attacks to measurably reduce gun injuries and deaths."

"Similarly, neither medical nor criminological data sources have shown any post-ban reduction in the percentage of crime-related gunshot victims who die."

"If anything, therefore, gun attacks appear to have been more lethal and injurious since the ban."

Try as they might to swizzle statistics, the summary reads:

"9.4. Summary
Although the ban has been successful in reducing crimes with AWs, any benefits from this reduction are likely to have been outweighed by steady or rising use of non-banned semiautomatics with LCMs, which are used in crime much more frequently than AWs. Therefore, we cannot clearly credit the ban with any of the nation’s recent drop in gun violence. And, indeed, there has been no discernible reduction in the lethality and injuriousness of gun violence, based on indicators like the percentage of gun crimes resulting in death or the share of gunfire incidents resulting in injury, as we might have expected had the ban reduced crimes with both AWs and LCMs."

- - - - -

BTW, the Feinstein bill proposal was just released... They want us to register all "grandfathered guns" under the NFA...

This is making the rounds today, so I guess it must just have been released. It is official: Feinstein will be looking for registration of all “grandfathered” guns under the National Firearms Act of 1934 just like machine guns:

• Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms Act, to include:
  • Background check of owner and any transferee;
  • Type and serial number of the firearm;
  • Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint;
  • Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that possession would not violate State or local law; and
  • Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration.

Find it at: http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/publ...ssault-weapons

At $200 per tax stamp, this will financially break a number of us...

Marc

BTW, if you look closely at what Feinstein is defining as an "Assault Weapon" (they include rifles and pistols this time) you'll find that our Lugers are considered "Assault Weapons".

How can this be? Well, under their new definition, if your firearm has military features, and can accept a magazine with more than 10 cartridges, it is an "Assault Weapon".

But our Luger magazines only hold 8 shots, right? Well that's true except for the Trommel Magazine. Since it holds 32, and our Luger can accept one (even if we don't have one) it's an "Assault Weapon".

Federal registration plays into the UN Weapons Ban strategy of having nations register firearms.

To pay for it all, the NFA transfer tax stamps at $200 apiece.

Here's the NRA-ILA Summary of what's known about the proposal.

Note that one of the provisions prohibits transfer of "Assault Weapons" from current owners, and mandates turn-in and destruction upon the owner's death.

Marc

As written it "exempts antique firearms" Will be interesting to see if the ATF has to change the C&R lists

And the stupid get more stupid. Bill

An "antique firearm" was made before 1897. The ATF is unlikely to change that definition. They are not talking about C&R firearms.

Of course, there were very few semi-automatic firearms before 1897.

Marc